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OT IX And X

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
OT IX And X
Occasionally someone or other asks or speculates about the release of OT IX and OT X and I think of it as frankly a near impossibility. I will try to make a simple case for why it is unlikely.



One prediction I have is an either or proposition. I feel we will never see OT IX or X released in any form OR it will signal a state of near complete collapse of the Scientology cult and actually speed the collapse itself.

If anyone releases these levels once actual delivery occurs and no OT abilities are created the disappointed cult members walking away will be a part of tremendous changes for the tiny core of fanatics remaining. If this happens the cult will most likely dwindle down to five or ten thousand members, perhaps even less.

Between the fact that no levels actually exist and that they are promoted as being the first actual OT levels with powers and Scientologists have been told repeatedly in writing that all orgs must be Saint Hill size before the upper levels can be released those factors combine to make releasing something and calling it IX and X just too problematic. It is the move you only do when you know the con is about to end.

Staff and Sea Org members will leave if he did it because they will know something is too wrong for this to still be Scientology. I cannot stress that enough. Captain David Miscavige (leader of the Sea Org) knows this. He also knows once the levels utterly fail to grant any powers the whole fraud will collapse for individual Scientologists who realize that only an all too human is behind the curtain. One with no miracles, no wisdom and no magic.

Miscavige has to avoid this at all costs.

I think my idea hinges on two factors. As staff and Sea Org members we had the "all orgs Saint Hill size" prerequisite pounded into us daily. And the accompanying ideas that at Saint Hill size we got good pay and the Universe Corps and would see literally thousands of new Scientologists coming in EVERY org.

That myth can never be true, and Miscavige knows it. But staff use the Saint Hill myth to justify a million things, from no pay to poor service, bad and no results from Scientology and also as a way to blame themselves for bad conditions because they think if they just made the org Saint Hill size all the problems, abuses and injustices would just go away.

And it's been this way for decades. Hubbard set it up that way. Saint Hill size is the rainbow we all chased. It promised enough staff with enough training to deliver wins and miracles. It promised good pay and decent working conditions. It promised the Universe Corps and free OT levels for staff.

Those very generous promises were always empty lies, and just counterfeit dreams to control us with false futures. That term is used to describe how narcissists deceive their victims. Hubbard knew they could never be but they served his purpose. He was the wolf in shepherd's clothing, and quite a ravenous wolf as well.

We also used the Saint Hill size excuse to avoid issues related to the lack of positive impact from Scientology socially and the lack of expansion. At every org and mission you can say we are just not big enough to see a standard Scientology org, but everyone else is.
Additionally for the public the con has a runway of excuses.

They learn to believe in godlike miracles then accept excuses why they never come. You think you will get Einstein like genius and perfect memory with no negative emotions or habits by clear on the Scientology bridge. Then you accept lower and lower results until by clear lowered expectations are routine.

You then on the OT levels from OT III on go from blaming the fictional horror of the reactive mind to the absurd excuse of body thetans. You are told you removed the reactive mind by clear, so that excuse won't work anymore.

On the OT levels you blame body thetans and they are the excuse for the promised super powers of telekinesis, telepathy, healing etc. etc. never materializing. But you get told by OT VII that they are all handled. Then by OT VIII that valences and false memories are handled.

So any further OT levels would be expected to actually deliver the long promised miracles and OT abilities.

Between the two groups being deceived with the Saint Hill size lies AND the upper OT levels lies no reality Scientology can deliver wouldn't shatter the illusion for many Scientologists.

When you promise paradise, when you preach perfection of self and group, you can never be exposed as a fraud. That false future has to always be in the future. If it is ever the present it is exposed, the curtain gets pulled back and the emperor is not wearing a stitch.

Hubbard knew this and Miscavige does as well.


Before anyone can begin auditing on OTIX or OTX the funds will need to be raised for Solar Winds. That is the ONLY place any auditing can be done on the OTIX, OTX, but there will need to be some hefty contributions made because everyone knows that Space Stations don't come cheap.
 

Gib

Crusader
Gib, I think you are far too kind to Hubbard. He didn't use hyperbole. He used outright lies. He tried to use reversals of truth to mentally enslave victims for life. He didn't state exaggerations - he used total reversals of truth to confuse, deceive and enslave people intentionally.

He knew auditing added content hypnotically and claimed it removed it he knew a clear has added identities not a removed fictional reactive mind. He knew the victim gets buried in delusion not a perfect memory. He intended to fool us.

I could go on with hundreds of examples I have put in previous threads. He didn't exaggerate. He lied.

MB, do you even know what hyperbole means?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

Of course Hubbard used hyprbole

"Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. In rhetoric, it is also sometimes known as auxesis (lit. "growth"). In poetry and oratory, it emphasizes, evokes strong feelings, and creates strong impressions. As a figure of speech, it is usually not meant to be taken literally.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2]"
[/SUP]

What do you think the state of "clear" and "OT" are, they are only hyperbole!

And yes, they are outright lies.
 

Irayam

Patron with Honors
...




That would be cool!

I'd love to read it.

And anyone else who wants to take a shot at it.

Funny & entertaining idea!

OK... I don't have so much time, but I can try to write OT IX.

It's called "the OUCH! Assist":yes:
The unique (but repetitive) command is:
"Feel my price"
"Thank you"
The process is run until the guy blow:happydance:

(In fact it is a very succinct summary of the whole process of $cientology:clap:)
La boucle est bouclée!

Irayam
 

Gib

Crusader
OT IX And X
Occasionally someone or other asks or speculates about the release of OT IX and OT X and I think of it as frankly a near impossibility. I will try to make a simple case for why it is unlikely.

snipped

Here's something to consider, the whole concept, idea, of OT 9 & 10, are only in the bubble world of scientology. The rest of the billions of people on planet earth have no idea what OT9 & 10 mean. :roflmao:

Let alone what "clear" or "OT" mean? :roflmao:
 

Gib

Crusader
Gib, I think Hubbard specialized in Orwellian reversals of truth. A very specific propaganda technique with the result of doublethink.

I described this in depth in Propaganda By Reversal Of Meaning.

http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/03/propaganda-by-reversal-of-meaning-in.html?m=0

Propaganda is but derived from rhethoric:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#History

Defining propaganda has always been a problem. The main difficulties have involved differentiating propaganda from other types of persuasion,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasion

In my view, dianetics and scietology are just a view of Hubbards world view, which turns out to be false, sure it's a hellvahoax and a con, but I think hubbard beleived hisself to be right, and used every think of writing, or literacy device known to man, to convince.

And, he said, at the end to Sarge, he failed,

no shit, LOL
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
OT IX And X
Occasionally someone or other asks or speculates about the release of OT IX and OT X and I think of it as frankly a near impossibility. I will try to make a simple case for why it is unlikely.

One prediction I have is an either or proposition. I feel we will never see OT IX or X released in any form OR it will signal a state of near complete collapse of the Scientology cult and actually speed the collapse itself.

If anyone releases these levels once actual delivery occurs and no OT abilities are created the disappointed cult members walking away will be a part of tremendous changes for the tiny core of fanatics remaining. If this happens the cult will most likely dwindle down to five or ten thousand members, perhaps even less.

You then on the OT levels from OT III on go from blaming the fictional horror of the reactive mind to the absurd excuse of body thetans. You are told you removed the reactive mind by clear, so that excuse won't work anymore.

On the OT levels you blame body thetans and they are the excuse for the promised super powers of telekinesis, telepathy, healing etc. etc. never materializing. But you get told by OT VII that they are all handled. Then by OT VIII that valences and false memories are handled.

I trimmed down your post to a few salient points.

I agree. The Xenu effect must be extremely angst worthy so the security precautions to avoid any leaks will be so intense that it will cause people to leave. This will result in a concentrated core of unquestioning true believers, not just for public but for staff who handle the material.

The few public who can be trusted enough to receive the OT levels will be worth hundreds of thousands or millions and have power of influence over other high profile public so the risk of losing them to incredulity is too high.

LRH made a big mistake by getting so detailed in the BT mythology. From the way he puts it, it sounds like Xenu is the only one to create a truly workable spiritual technology. It can degrade a thetan into a stable BT state for 75 million years and Scientology is not able to reverse the process. This is of course, unless the new OT levels are specifically designed to audit out your BT's implants so they no longer have the impulse to cling onto people. That does seem to be the general direction of all this: Handle your BT's drug problem, handle your BT's past life getting mixed up with your own. Are your BTs out of valence or have MUs?

It was acceptable to morph Freudian concepts into spiritual premises until it became good old fashioned exorcism with a twist. Now we have to pay through the nose for our case plus all these other very difficult BT cases. Altruism has its limits. It starts to look like a paranoid schizophrenic was desperately trying to work his way through a serious case of writer's block and in a moment of self congratulatory excitement told too many people about it to back off and make it all go away so he had to double down.

The only way new OT levels could be released is if they are sensible enough to make up for the earlier BT ridiculousness. If this were a TV series it would be time to employ the "Dream Sequence".
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
image.jpgimage.jpg
It is a pretty compelling argument. Miscavige really doesn't have anything else to sell and he has buyers.

I'm sure he could fabricate a loophole around the Saint Hill sized problem.

The saint hill size thing has always been a problem. I was never able to get it clarified when I asked. Things were always hinging on St. Hill size, but when I asked around public as well as S.O. nobody really knew what the exact definition was.

I don't think there is a specific written definition. That's why I used to get so frustrated with this 5X S.H. stuff.

This excerpt from Peter Bonais book sorta sums up for me, in my experience how just about everyone saw the myth of Saint Hill size.

This was before DM's regime when I was in. It seems DM has defined it, but how widely known is this I wonder, among the currently faithful.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
View attachment 11919View attachment 11920

The saint hill size thing has always been a problem. I was never able to get it clarified when I asked. Things were always hinging on St. Hill size, but when I asked around public as well as S.O. nobody really knew what the exact definition was.

I don't think there is a specific written definition. That's why I used to get so frustrated with this 5X S.H. stuff.

This excerpt from Peter Bonais book sorta sums up for me, in my experience how just about everyone saw the myth of Saint Hill size.

This was before DM's regime when I was in. It seems DM has defined it, but how widely known is this I wonder, among the currently faithful.


I vaguely recall a program that specified exactly what "5X SH size" requirements were (ie tek to admin staff ratio and student points range and all that nonsense).

I expect Paul will remember.

:yes:

 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I vaguely recall a program that specified exactly what "5X SH size" requirements were (ie tek to admin staff ratio and student points range and all that nonsense).

I expect Paul will remember.

:yes:


Yuppers, although I only remember about two things: 1000 WDAHs a week and 200 students on major courses (Academy Levels, SHSBC etc) on a regular basis, not a one-week peak. At the time there was a nice booklet with pictures and quotes from oldies who were at SH at the time (1964-66). I'll always remember Monica Quirino's quote: we didn't put much attention on the stats as such, just produced what we were supposed to, and the stats just seemed to go up week after week (paraphrased). When I first saw that I thought, yeah, that's how it's supposed to be. Huh.

But the point I'm making is that it was very precise what the stats needed to be to have a SH-sized org, and it wasn't in the least vague. That was before any orgs actually made it, though. :)

Now, later, when the Dwarf saw how hard it was to actually achieve these figures, not as a one-week stay-up-6-days-in-a-row spike but routinely week after week, things got very fudged. And it became fudgier and fudgier. But at one time it was very precise.

Paul
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Yuppers, although I only remember about two things: 1000 WDAHs a week and 200 students on major courses (Academy Levels, SHSBC etc) on a regular basis, not a one-week peak. At the time there was a nice booklet with pictures and quotes from oldies who were at SH at the time (1964-66). I'll always remember Monica Quirino's quote: we didn't put much attention on the stats as such, just produced what we were supposed to, and the stats just seemed to go up week after week (paraphrased). When I first saw that I thought, yeah, that's how it's supposed to be. Huh.
<snip>

Paul

I used to hang around Saint Hill a lot in those years (1964/66). The place was heaving with Americans, Aussies, South Africans and lots of European and Scandinavian students. The SHSBC was packed to the rafters, and we staff (I was helping out in div 6 at the time) were allowed to go into the solarium and listen to Hubbard giving the lectures live to the briefing course students over an extension speaker. When the talk was over he'd come to the solarium door and smile and wave at us as we applauded him.

I often ran into him walking along the drive, and I always used to get flustered when he'd say 'how're you doing'? Instead of just saying 'great' or 'fine' or something, I felt I should be a bit more verbose and ended up looking like a prize pratt. Well, I was only 17 and completely in awe of him, and I was sure he could read my mind.

Then the ban on students coming to the UK to do scientology came into force, eventually Hubbard took off, and really it was never quite the same again.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
From Mike Rinder's Thursday Funnies.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/thursday-funnies-64/

Screenshot-700.png
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think any OT IX and X announcement without David Miscavige is just a bait and switch to get Scientologists to come in and donate money for a service they will never receive.
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
OT IX and X as all of the other OT levels, will be as useless a shoes for a snake.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think any OT IX and X announcement without David Miscavige is just a bait and switch to get Scientologists to come in and donate money for a service they will never receive.

Yep...he would have announced it at the New Years event and we would be hearing all about it by now
 

Jump

Operating teatime
I think any OT IX and X announcement without David Miscavige is just a bait and switch to get Scientologists to come in and donate money for a service they will never receive.


Is this the Scientological equivalent to Zeno'z Paradox?

That which is in locomotion must arrive at the half-way stage before it arrives at the goal.



Xenu's Paradox:

That which is in locomotion toward a new OT Level must arrive at the half-way stage for another regging opportunity before it arrives at the auditor.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
OK, I have to spoil your hypothesis. Here's the skinny on OT IX and OT X

OT IX: Orders of Magnitude

Done solo. This is the process:

1. Recall a thought. If none come to mind then think one now.
2. Locate when you thought it? Time, place, form and event (see Scn Axiom 28)
3. Locate the original source of this thought.
4. continue with step 1.

This process is run until all thoughts on your whole-track have been handled.

OT X: Character

Done solo.

1. Invent a beingness.
2. Decide to be it.
3. Decide to stop being it.
4. continue with step 1.

This process is run until the being can be anything and knows it.

There is considerable theory and process detail that has been omitted but there you have the levels in a nutshell.

Please see the FSSO registrar to get signed up.

Note: Don't let them know you read the processes here or you will have a tech estimate for preps of roughly 1500 hours which could lengthen your runway onto these amazing levels by a considerable margin or could potentially bar your route to spiritual immortality for a billion years (yeah they have now got the bright idea of making you complete a full SO contract before permitting further advancement - so beware. You have been warned.)

Some may be wondering how long it takes to do these levels. Initial estimates for IX run a minimum of 10 years but could take considerably longer. Slightly less time is required to complete X. These levels can be done at home after your proficiency is assured by FSSO Tech terminals.

Oh and I forgot the really good news, there will be no 6 month refreshers! Refreshers will be done every 12 months. Come spend a lovely time sipping coca colas in the La Paloma Blanca with your buddies. Special IAS rates apply for donations of $1 million+ (per refresher)
 
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