Mike Rinder posted something important today

[Chris Shelton]

Today Mike posted an article on his blog called Scientology and the Aftermath Episode 2, which focuses on him and Christy and their stories with the Church. But what are not covered in the show is Mike's feelings about how he treated others as the head of OSA and as a Scientologist. This is just part of what he wrote:

[FONT=&amp]One concern I have is that the show does not really give voice to my regret about things I have done during my time in the church that may have caused suffering to others. I think it captures the regrets I have about my children, always the answer to the question “What is your biggest regret.” But it is not the whole picture and I fear it will appear that this is ALL I care about. So, let me set the record straight in case that is the impression that is created: I apologize to anyone I hurt, and I am truly sad that I was that person. The only thing I feel I can do about it let that be know, but more importantly, try to make good going forward. I certainly wish I had been smarter and had not believed so strongly that what I was doing all those years in the Sea Org was “saving the planet.” And that I had not bought into the idea that every decision is based on “the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” (where the Third Dynamic counts 20 and each of the other 7 count 1), nor had I subscribed to L. Ron Hubbard’s “Code of Honor” – particularly “never fear harming another in a just cause.” I now see these as false and harmful “stable data” and sometimes wonder at my blindness.[/FONT]

Over the last couple of years, I've seen a lot of comments both by ex-SO, ex-Scn and never-ins about Mike and Marty and them taking responsibility for all the horrible things they did from their positions over OSA. I am really glad that Mike has tackled this point directly and I think what he says and how he says it shows that Mike has definitely come a lot farther than Marty or anyone else who has not yet dealt with not only what Scientology did to them, but what they did because of Scientology. I know from personal experience what it takes to get your head into a place where you want to make a public apology like this and it is very indicative that Mike really has come all the way out of the cult mindset. Knowing Mike as I do, I have not really had a lot of question about where he stood on this, but I know others have.

Curious what others think about this.

http://mikerindersblog.org/scientology-the-aftermath-episode-2/

 

[skep]

I concur, what Mike posted was extremely heartfelt and although Marty has been quiet, I suspect he is reading it all. I (and probably many others) can't help but think that there is a disconnect between the two, although I don't think Marty has turned negative on Mike yet.

Mike has recovered, Marty hasn't and still, I think, reflects back on the times that he was "the baddest dude in Scientology", and that he probably misses some of the times that when he said jump, the response was, 'how high, sir?'. That perspective certainly has come through since last February, and like many, one has to speculate what was the catalyst for not only the dropped lawsuit, but the vitriolic, albeit sparse, posts Marty has made.

I wish Mike well on his ongoing journey, and can't help but think that Miscavige must be even more furious with the collaboration with Leah, and the immense impact the series has. However, even though Mike has been a target, more, and more, including yourself, targets keep popping up, and the cumulative impact must be starting to be seen by him.

I look forward to see the next segment.

 

[Churchill]

I have much respect and admiration for Mike Rinder, and am a regular reader of his blog which I appreciate immensely.
I hope that Mike and Gerry Armstrong can find it in their combined hearts, to reach out to one other, if they have not yet done so, and reconcile.
I feel that Gerry deserves the peace of mind, and sense of closure that this would bring, as does Mike.

 

[lotus]

I am glad he cleared out this specific eabout his regrets (the show only featured his regrets about his children)

I must admit I got the same exact reaction he mentionned. I wonder how about other people ????

It was an opportunity for him the make a clear statement about that, how he feeels about his past (top exec OSA) behavior and also it provides sufficient hints about his mindset about $cientology and LRH doctrine!

Sometimes we are wrong..In the beginning I would have put my money on Marty, not on Mike...But with time..I realized his way has been honest, constant, and he never failed at doing what he is doing. I thank him for letting so many people voicing their story and speak their mind.

Few days ago I read a post of Mike and the comments section about Lois Resdorf last part. This is a record of a tremendous value and we can celebrate that a few original messengers spoke about how it was (either on the ship or land bases) to be devoted to LRH.

One thing I observed is now this issue can be addressed freely on Mike's blog.. (the kids used [/U by the ''commodore'' - what they have to speak about it, what it did to them)
Also, it seems there has been a shift about ''political correctness'' in the indie field about hubbard.
Some people open up and beginto talk the truth.

That's all good!
The indie field has changed..and so many seems to be more free to speak their mind NOW about LRH abusing (enslaved) kids as servants.

 

[Bost_Bobby]

Today Mike posted an article on his blog called Scientology and the Aftermath Episode 2, which focuses on him and Christy and their stories with the Church. But what are not covered in the show is Mike's feelings about how he treated others as the head of OSA and as a Scientologist. This is just part of what he wrote:



Over the last couple of years, I've seen a lot of comments both by ex-SO, ex-Scn and never-ins about Mike and Marty and them taking responsibility for all the horrible things they did from their positions over OSA. I am really glad that Mike has tackled this point directly and I think what he says and how he says it shows that Mike has definitely come a lot farther than Marty or anyone else who has not yet dealt with not only what Scientology did to them, but what they did because of Scientology. I know from personal experience what it takes to get your head into a place where you want to make a public apology like this and it is very indicative that Mike really has come all the way out of the cult mindset. Knowing Mike as I do, I have not really had a lot of question about where he stood on this, but I know others have.

Curious what others think about this.

http://mikerindersblog.org/scientology-the-aftermath-episode-2/

Thanks for the post, Chris. All I know of Mike and Marty is what I have read here or what I have seen on YouTube.

I can honestly say that when I watched the YouTube series of them talking while fishing I saw in them two very different personalities. Mike seemed very likeable and relaxed whereas Marty seemed hard and tense. Thinking back on those videos now, and I may be wrong here, I felt like Marty was actually saying very little but appeared to be egging Mike on to tell his stories. It just seemed out of balance to me.

I'm glad Mike is speaking out to those who were negatively affected by him. Maybe more will come out and do the same after they see what he is doing.

 

[arcxcauseblows]

I find it very admirable that he's acknowledging his war crimes lol

Big sign of growth and has to be a relief to see beyond the strange situation it would be to have been in Osa

I hope Marty explores this too

 

[Free to shine]

I think what Mike is doing now is brilliant, and that is a great article.

Tony Ortega gives some more background on Mike and Christie, who are the subject of the next episode of Leah Remini's series.

Tonight on Leah Remini’s series, two more families get ripped apart and ‘fair gamed’

In this episode we start to see that this Scientology thing is a truly demented mindfuck that can’t help but produce demoralized and victimized former members.

...

Mike and Christie are well known to the longtime readers of this website. But for those catching up, we thought we’d put together a collection of resources to help supplement tonight’s episode.

http://tonyortega.org/2016/12/06/to...ore-families-get-ripped-apart-and-fair-gamed/

These comments hit the nail on the head.

FredEX2 • 11 hours ago

I remember the 1st time I saw the video of Mike Rinder being attacked & harassed verbally by his family, calling him hateful names and accusing him of vile things he never did. Such utter hate and nastiness made me sit there staring at the computer screen and burst into tears for him. You could see & feel his pain...and I've admired and respected Mike for his unconditionally loving response back to his family...no matter what they said or did...ever since.

http://tonyortega.org/2016/12/06/to...pped-apart-and-fair-gamed/#comment-3038264058

Hamtaro • 4 hours ago

Just got done reading Rinder's blog post and feel the need to say: in a typical person’s life, there are not that many occasions when it’s absolutely incumbent upon a person to say “I forgive you.” But after reading Rinder’s blog post today, I would posit that if you are someone who has ever been hurt by Mike Rinder’s actions when he was a Scn exec, today might very well be that day.

Twenty years ago, there wasn’t a living relative, friend or business associate of mine that wasn’t harassed, interviewed, threatened, followed, intimidated, pestered or tormented. For several years it was continuous, unrelenting and thoroughly obnoxious. And the directors of it all were Mike and Marty. Today, two decades later, a lot of people still like to put those two names together “Mike and Marty” but I would suggest the opposite. That one of those men has repeatedly admitted his culpability, done everything reasonably feasible and within his power to make up the damage and worked ceaselessly to prevent others from being similarly hurt.

In his blog post today, Rinder said “One concern I have is that the show does not really give voice to my regret about things I have done during my time in the church that may have caused suffering to others…” This is the final public mea culpa, folks. If you’re looking for something more then you’d best examine your own motives rather than looking to Mr. Rinder.

When his and Christie’s son was born, I realized I was no longer angry and sent him a congratulatory email. We had never directly communicated before that. I was surprised to find out he remembered my name and in his very kind reply he asked when I might be visiting Clearwater. I don’t go to Clearwater these days. But if I had, I have no doubt what Mike would have said to me.

Even in the worst of wars, there eventually comes a time for cessation of hostilities between parties. Mike Rinder directed activities against a lot of people I know and a few that I love, like Jesse Prince and Vaughn Young. But we’re all human and if someone has a sincere change of heart then they deserve a second chance. I personally think Mike Rinder, through his actions and attitude, has earned that second chance.

http://tonyortega.org/2016/12/06/to...pped-apart-and-fair-gamed/#comment-3039091174

 

[Knows]

Today Mike posted an article on his blog called Scientology and the Aftermath Episode 2, which focuses on him and Christy and their stories with the Church. But what are not covered in the show is Mike's feelings about how he treated others as the head of OSA and as a Scientologist. This is just part of what he wrote:



Over the last couple of years, I've seen a lot of comments both by ex-SO, ex-Scn and never-ins about Mike and Marty and them taking responsibility for all the horrible things they did from their positions over OSA. I am really glad that Mike has tackled this point directly and I think what he says and how he says it shows that Mike has definitely come a lot farther than Marty or anyone else who has not yet dealt with not only what Scientology did to them, but what they did because of Scientology. I know from personal experience what it takes to get your head into a place where you want to make a public apology like this and it is very indicative that Mike really has come all the way out of the cult mindset. Knowing Mike as I do, I have not really had a lot of question about where he stood on this, but I know others have.

Curious what others think about this.

http://mikerindersblog.org/scientology-the-aftermath-episode-2/

Mike Rinder is a Class Act. A man with integrity and grace. I think he represents a Ex Scientologist who is healing from the mind fuck and coming back to being human again! I appreciate that he does not give up, won't take blood money in exchange for silence and is doing very well considering the abuse he endured.

 

[Leland]

I find it very admirable that he's acknowledging his war crimes lol

Big sign of growth and has to be a relief to see beyond the strange situation it would be to have been in Osa

I hope Marty explores this too

Maybe I'm not well informed....and I'm really not looking for answers about this....

But, IMO, "I'm sorry I hurt people" is a long way from "acknowledging his war crimes...."

Perhaps....that is why the lol, tagged on the end of that sentence?

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Maybe I'm not well informed....and I'm really not looking for answers about this....

But, IMO, "I'm sorry I hurt people" is a long way from "acknowledging his war crimes...."

Perhaps....that is why the lol, tagged on the end of that sentence?

Did you read his post today, and see today's episode? It's more than merely saying I'm sorry.

Mimsey

 

[Martin-O]

I just posted my very first comment on his blog. Maybe the day has come where he starts to talk about the past:

Martin Ottmann says December 7, 2016 at 7:05 am

Your comment is awaiting moderation.


Hi Mike,

I appreciate what you have done in the past few years for educating the general public about Scientology. Needless to say, I read you blog every day. Now that 9 years have passed since you left the organization, would you be willing to tell us more about your time at the helm of the Office of Special Affairs International? You never really explained in detail what was going on at OSA Int while you were the CO. I know that a lot of people would be very thankful if you could fill in blanks on what was going on in different areas of the Scientology world during the 1990s (f. e. Greece, Russia, Germany). A ready-for-use-in-court type declaration/afffidavit about the inner workings of the Office of Special Affairs would also be great.


Greetings,

Martin

 

[Free to shine]

Mike has a follow-up article and the comments are worth reading!

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-aftermath-episode-2-aftermath/

Scientology Aftermath Episode 2 Aftermath
The show has aired, my laundry has been hung out for all to see, and now it’s on to Episode 3.
...
I thought you might find it instructive to be directed to some earlier postings I have done that may help explain some things if you just watched the show or are curious about the bizarre scientology statements about Leah, me or anyone who has a differing opinion of their infallibility and dares voice it.

Mike Rinder says

December 7, 2016 at 9:09 am

Thank you to all who have sent messages of support and love by text, phone, email, FB, twitter, instagram and courier pigeon. It has been quite overwhelming. I cannot hope to respond to everyone. I try to read everything and that alone is a challenge. If I do not “Like” your comment or Tweet or respond to your message, please understand it is appreciated.

Many wonder what they can do. Call or write to your Congressman and Senator to do something about the ongoing abuses. Write to the IRS. Support and comment on media articles and blogs that cover the abuses (like Tony Ortega at the Underground Bunker and any others that are helping raise awareness of the truth about scientology). Watch Scientology The Aftermath every week and tell your friends to do so and support A&E for stepping up and taking on scientology.

Don’t ever think you have no voice or there is nothing you can do. There is plenty.

The support of Leah and Amy and me and those you have not yet seen is invaluable and appreciated. Keep it up. Knowing there are a lot of people out there on our side is comforting and gives strength.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Leah with the able assistance of Mike has put together the most damaging media presentations of the evils of the Co$ ever.

 

[Caroline]

I have much respect and admiration for Mike Rinder, and am a regular reader of his blog which I appreciate immensely.
I hope that Mike and Gerry Armstrong can find it in their combined hearts, to reach out to one other, if they have not yet done so, and reconcile.
I feel that Gerry deserves the peace of mind, and sense of closure that this would bring, as does Mike.

Gerry has written and spoken quite a bit about Mike Rinder, because he was Rinder’s biggest fair game target for so long, and he continues to be a key fair game target. Below are links to some of the materials that inform their relationship, and to the small amount of correspondence between them.

Over all the years Rinder fair gamed Gerry for Scientology, and had been paid by Scientology for that purpose, he wrote and spoke a great deal about Gerry. Almost all of what Rinder has written or said was in secret. Much was black PR. He has never publicly, or to Gerry, disclosed or acknowledged what he did to fair game Gerry or what he has written or said about him.

Since Rinder in recent years has been portraying himself as Scientology tamer or exposer, the absence of his public statements concerning Gerry is actually a revealing factor in their relationship. Rinder is identified as editor of Rathbun’s 2013 book, and Gerry says it forwards the cult’s black PR on him and his attorney Mike Flynn. Rinder was briefly recorded by the German filmmaker Markus Thoess black PRing Gerry. (Video below) He has taken no action that I am aware of to correct the black PR he promulgated, even to the highest levels of government.

Rinder and Gerry really have an extraordinary relationship, which is similar to Gerry’s with Mark Rathbun: the long unrepentant victimizer and his common undying victim. Gerry is not seeking a sense of "closure." His requests of Mike Rinder are the same as his requests of Mark Rathbun, which are essentially to tell the truth toward correcting ongoing injustices and black propaganda. It very well may be that "closure" is not obtained, but at least justice would have been sought. Right now, Mike Rinder and Mark Rathbun do not seek justice for their victims and do not support the people who do seek such justice. The "closure" they apparently seek is our acceptance of the decades long injustices and other crimes they perpetrated against their victims. "Public apologies" without real willingness to do what's possible to correct the wrongs reduces the "apologies" to further acts of fair game. "May be tricked, sued, or lied to or destroyed."

No Truth from Rinder? No reconcilation.

To Mike Rinder

Okay, so it isn’t really because Miscavige hates Heber. It’s because Heber might just tell the truth. You’ve got it. It’s why Miscavige, and Marty, and you, and all Scientologists hate me: because I tell the truth about Scientology.
Now, will you tell the truth about Scientology’s ops, black PR, the hatred, the threats on me for all those years? Are you going to be the honest Scientologist? Or, since that hasn’t been possible, will you be an honest born again wog?
http://gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/315

Mike Rinder black PRs Gerry Armstrong and Graham Berry to German film makers (2012-06-03)

I had the copyright owner’s authorization to publish this video, and the copyright infringement claim was made in bad faith. I have written and executed a declaration to support this counter-notification, and posted the declaration with evidence at http://gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/230

[video=youtube;EpKxMplCFL8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpKxMplCFL8[/video]

Gerry to Graham Berry on Honey Tech

I am not asking Marty or Mike for a deep psycho-philosophical shift, when, for example, a person changes from lying as a pro-survival activity and way of life and starts to value and desire truth telling and that becomes a way of life. I am also not denying that such a shift could perhaps occur, or be related. I think testifying seventy-some days in Scientology litigations might have altered me psycho-philosophically, and certainly being M & M & every other Scientologist’s target for all these years has.

I believe, however, that the testimony or truth that Marty and Mike can provide me, which would assist in correcting injustices, can be provided in a couple of days. They know how to debrief, know how to tell the truth, and have always had the ability. The idea that Scientologists cannot tell the truth or do not know truth from lies is a ruse that some Scientologists use to escape responsibility and natural consequences for the bad acts they know they’ve committed against their victims, or are still committing.

Marty and Mike are at cause over their refusal to now assist the people they helped to damage or destroy by intimidation, litigation and defamation activities. Their condition or their place in their long or short path of waking, recovery and healing is not why they have not assisted their victims. They had the ability to assist people while inside Scientology and the Sea Org, and the idea that they have lost that ability since leaving is ridiculous. They also have the same reasons for refusing to assist their victims that they had while in the SO. They did not acquire a new set of reasons for doing what they had always done: something or anything other than assisting their victims, giving justice, telling the truth.

I am just requesting the narrow, relevant truth about a clear and active matter: Marty, Mike, Hubbard, Miscavige, et al. v. Armstrong & friends. Marty and Mike are two individuals with a great deal of information, who are now presenting as fighters for justice who have told the truth about their part in victimizing others. Since they have not told the truth, and do not seek justice, even in correcting injustices they perpetrated and can help correct, the logical conclusion is that they are “Loyalists” mispresenting themselves. My communications that you call mercilessly attacking and condemning Marty and Mike have been useful and valuable in establishing these facts.
Not everyone gets to tell the truth that matters to someone. My request has been appropriate and the truth I’m requesting is relevant in ongoing legally cognizable injustices. Sometimes a request for the truth can be by subpoena. In my case it is the earnest, free request of a knowledgeable and known victim in a long legal and extralegal campaign of victimization and injustice.
http://gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/1108

Reaching Mike Rinder

Your inimical, contemptuous communication contained within it the implicit license to me to do what I want with your email, because we are enemies. In reality, your communication only confirmed the inimical condition you were in with me. It did not cause the condition.

A communication from you could end the condition. In fact communication is what I want from you, just as I want it from Marty. I want you both to communicate about the Scientology v. Armstrong injustices and black PR over 32 years. I will know the communication that ends the condition, and neither of your two emails to me is it.

http://gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/1919

About Rathbun and Rinder talking to the FBI or going to the Feds

This scenario of Rathbun and Rinder talking to the FBI or going to the Feds has been brought up several times over the past few years. It is used as evidence of them doing the right thing, or how effective they are as critics, as it has been assumed that whatever they told the Feds helped the Scientologists’ victims.

In view of the known facts, however, this assumption is illogical. It is illogical to think that Rathbun and Rinder would lie about me in Memoirs, continue the criminal framing of me and Mike Flynn, black PR me and other persons he victimized, and yet tell the truth about what they did to fair game us to the Feds.

http://gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/1332

Letter to Alex Gibney on the IRS deal, public policy, and calling out Rathbun and Rinder

Dear Mr. Gibney:

[…]

Calling out Cruise and Travolta to stand up and say it’s time for Miscavige to answer his accusers is logical because Cruise and Travolta are celebs, and they have contact and influence with him. Now I am urging you, and Wright and Paul Haggis, to call out Mark Rathbun and Mike Rinder to answer their accuser, me. What I am accusing them of includes, most crucially, crimes and torts they committed against me personally to unlawfully obtain the IRS tax exemption, which is clearly a focus of your film.

Rathbun and Rinder, under L. Ron Hubbard and Miscavige, fair gamed me more than they fair gamed any other person during their time as fair gamers for Scientology. If they fair gamed someone else more than me, they have never said, and I have never heard of that person. The one person they fair gamed somewhat equivalently was my attorney Michael Flynn. See, e.g., http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/

Since Rathbun and Rinder have apparently left the Scientology cult, and portray themselves as exposers of the Scientologists’ abuses and crimes, I have many times asked them to come forward and tell the truth about fair gaming me. I have asked them many times to come forward and tell the truth about what they did to me to obtain their cult’s unmerited tax exemption. 1. See, e.g., this 2009 letter to Rathbun regarding black propaganda to the IRS. http://gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/304

Yet neither of them has answered me, their accuser, other than with contempt and further fair gaming.

http://gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/1488

Response to Rinder re Disconnection

Rinder’s assertion that “disconnection,” which is one application of the SP doctrine, is merely a relatively simple theory, and, as he says on his blog, “is based on common sense,” is also false and malignant. His claim on his blog that when disconnection “is used for the benefit of the individual, it can be a helpful practice” is a lie to cloak an evil and indefensible practice.[SUP]3[/SUP]

The other, even more evil, application of the SP doctrine is the “fair game” policy. Rathbun and Rinder have not told the truth about fair game, and have in fact continued to fair game and support the fair gaming of the wogs they most egregiously fair gamed while working directly for the Scientology cult. While disconnection is antisocial, it is arguably lawfully permissible, but fair game constitutes a criminal conspiracy against rights and is judicially punishable.

[SUP]3[/SUP]. http://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-disconnection-policy-exposed/

http://gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/1344

Speaking up about Fair Game

Rinder personally participated in and directed criminal acts against me. See for example, my introduction to the Armstrong Op http://armstrong-op.gerryarmstrong.ca/about ; see also documents relating to Rinder’s part in it: http://armstrong-op.gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/19 . He knows about his criminal acts, and knows that I have confronted him on his refusal to tell the truth about them. Although the book is about “fair game,” and Rinder is a major contributor to the book, there is no mention of his fair game against his victims. There is no evidence he was asked about such actions, no challenge to his assertion or intimation that he and the new regime did not engage in illegal activities, and no question of his aghastness.

http://gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/1893

 

[phenomanon]

Gerry has written and spoken quite a bit about Mike Rinder, because he was Rinder’s biggest fair game target for so long, and he continues to be a key fair game target. Below are links to some of the materials

Merry Holidays to you and Gerry.
I think you are terrific.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Gerry has written and spoken quite a bit about Mike Rinder, because he was Rinder’s biggest fair game target for so long, and he continues to be a key fair game target. Below are links to some of the materials that inform their relationship, and to the small amount of correspondence between them.

Over all the years Rinder fair gamed Gerry for Scientology, and had been paid by Scientology for that purpose, he wrote and spoke a great deal about Gerry. Almost all of what Rinder has written or said was in secret. Much was black PR. He has never publicly, or to Gerry, disclosed or acknowledged what he did to fair game Gerry or what he has written or said about him.

Since Rinder in recent years has been portraying himself as Scientology tamer or exposer, the absence of his public statements concerning Gerry is actually a revealing factor in their relationship. Rinder is identified as editor of Rathbun’s 2013 book, and Gerry says it forwards the cult’s black PR on him and his attorney Mike Flynn. Rinder was briefly recorded by the German filmmaker Markus Thoess black PRing Gerry. (Video below) He has taken no action that I am aware of to correct the black PR he promulgated, even to the highest levels of government.

Rinder and Gerry really have an extraordinary relationship, which is similar to Gerry’s with Mark Rathbun: the long unrepentant victimizer and his common undying victim. Gerry is not seeking a sense of "closure." His requests of Mike Rinder are the same as his requests of Mark Rathbun, which are essentially to tell the truth toward correcting ongoing injustices and black propaganda. It very well may be that "closure" is not obtained, but at least justice would have been sought. Right now, Mike Rinder and Mark Rathbun do not seek justice for their victims and do not support the people who do seek such justice. The "closure" they apparently seek is our acceptance of the decades long injustices and other crimes they perpetrated against their victims. "Public apologies" without real willingness to do what's possible to correct the wrongs reduces the "apologies" to further acts of fair game. "May be tricked, sued, or lied to or destroyed."

No Truth from Rinder? No reconcilation.

Thanks Caroline.

What do you think about the idea of having a meeting and airing of all these unspoken of events between Jerry and Mike--and having the event HOSTED and FILMED by someone like Mark Bunker?

It would be a first.

Just speculating, but I would imagine that Jerry would greatly appreciate and enjoy the chance to such a live/recorded forum. I don't know Mike R., but I can also hope that he too would "bite the bullet" and just get it over with by answering some tough questions and getting it behind him. For Mark Bunker's part, maybe it is one of the missing ingredients and illuminative sparks to help tie together his long-overdue documentary.

It's never been done before, a fair gamer talks openly to a fair-gamed.

I know this might be offering unsolicited advice, but it's "humbly tendered as a gift" and all that......on this planet.




ps: So there is no misunderstanding, I view this cathartic kind of meeting as historical. Not to jam up Mike Rinder in any respect. He has been a spectacularly successful demonstration of escaping the inner core of the diabolical cult. He has disavowed it all and done extraordinary things to expose the abuses, even if you/Jerry are unsatisfied with his not yet providing certain specifics that victimized Jerry. That is understandable. But MR has earned some medals on the way out of the COS (Crimewave of Scn) and perhaps there may be even more medals to be pinned on him before it's all over. He's a good man and Jerry's a good man. It sucks that both got caught in the dark gravity of Hubbard's hoax.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

If anyone's in contact with documentary filmmaker MARK BUNKER, kindly send him the link to the previous message. He might like the idea for inclusion in "KNOWLEDGE REPORT" the film he has been working on.


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ortant-today&p=1125276&viewfull=1#post1125276

 

[Gib]

Thanks Caroline.

What do you think about the idea of having a meeting and airing of all these unspoken of events between Jerry and Mike--and having the event HOSTED and FILMED by someone like Mark Bunker?

It would be a first.

Just speculating, but I would imagine that Jerry would greatly appreciate and enjoy the chance to such a live/recorded forum. I don't know Mike R., but I can also hope that he too would "bite the bullet" and just get it over with by answering some tough questions and getting it behind him. For Mark Bunker's part, maybe it is one of the missing ingredients and illuminative sparks to help tie together his long-overdue documentary.

It's never been done before, a fair gamer talks openly to a fair-gamed.

I know this might be offering unsolicited advice, but it's "humbly tendered as a gift" and all that......on this planet.




ps: So there is no misunderstanding, I view this cathartic kind of meeting as historical. Not to jam up Mike Rinder in any respect. He has been a spectacularly successful demonstration of escaping the inner core of the diabolical cult. He has disavowed it all and done extraordinary things to expose the abuses, even if you/Jerry and unsatisfied with his not yet providing certain specifics that victimized Jerry. That is understandable. But MR has earned some medals on the way out of the COS (Crimewave of Scn) and perhaps there may be even more medals to be pinned on him before it's all over. He's a good man and Jerry's a good man. It sucks that both got caught in the dark gravity of Hubbard's hoax.

I think what Gerry wants, I would too if I were in his shoes, is for Mike and/or Marty to provide some sort of statement or affidavit on how the COS used Fair Game to get his name smeared. Gerry wishes to clear his name legally so that he may travel to the USA or whatever.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I think what Gerry wants, I would too if I were in his shoes, is for Mike and/or Marty to provide some sort of statement or affidavit on how the COS used Fair Game to get his name smeared. Gerry wishes to clear his name legally so that he may travel to the USA or whatever.

Yes, I agree. In that way, having Mike Rinder and/or Marty Rathbun state things into the public record, there is a far more profound legal resolution possible for Jerry personally.

It occurs to me that in life and business (and certainly in law, justice & litigation!) there is more than one way to solve problems. Sometimes a protracted legal battle can be resolved by the parties meeting or mediating or otherwise "settling" the matter outside of a trial and court mandated solution.

Perhaps (I mused) Jerry's strict insistence on a legal instrument (e.g. sworn affidavit, deposition, courtroom testimony, et al) has been stuck for so long because there may be a better way to get the result. This is not a criticism, far from it. I know well that being on the inside of a long legal battle, there are certain "justice factors" that I typically insist on from a party who embezzled or otherwise stole funds. But that is, ultimately, a peripheral issue to the main settlement terms that can make the problem go away.

Jesus, now I feel like I am further expounding upon already unsolicited advice and should STFU, LOL.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

I think what Gerry wants, I would too if I were in his shoes, is for Mike and/or Marty to provide some sort of statement or affidavit on how the COS used Fair Game to get his name smeared. Gerry wishes to clear his name legally so that he may travel to the USA or whatever.

Has the statute of limitations run out? Even if it has, it is a tremendous legal quagmire to do anything like that. And really, will it accomplish his return to US soil? The Church would deny any accusations of that sort, so it would be all for naught.

I wish it were otherwise, but I think it's a pipe dream. It's time to move on.

Mimsey