What's new

Auditing minus Scientology exist?

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
To have some control.

Ok, if that is what it means (and I'm not entirely convinced by your answer), why didn't you say that in the first place? The phrase 'to be at cause' doesn't have much meaning in the real world, only in the world of obfuscation belonging to Hubbard do you find it.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
yeah...

A Journey...

To a gurney...

A burny gurney no returny kinda journey

I'd been hoping for a classic Yankee punchout; big bundle up in front of the fireplace snowstorm in the evening giving way to sizzling thousands of stars in the ebony firmament, toasting marshmallows and drinking strong coffee to stay up to watch a waning fingernail crescent moon rise on Saturday's wee hours, six or seven hours sleep then put on galoshes, gloves, scarf, smell the frying eggs and bacon awaiting when the chore is done and out the door with shovel to a bright white sunny day of still air which has yet to shake the fresh fallen from branch and bush and have into it briskly cutting a broad neat path, warmed by the work, breaking a sweat under the sweater she knit for me eighteen years ago as I get to the bank raised by the village plow and one quick BOLT OF FIRE!!! through the chest, slip off the mortal coil amidst perfection and rise softly to perfection greater still...

Was what I had in mind.

What did I get?

Well we don't know yet...

It pretty much looks like ugly drawn out painful crap but maybe I can get on an airliner with a couple arab hijackers and the second they make their move I scream "Americans! Follow me!!!" jump up and rush them and be the only passenger they kill...

If I make October I'll be 68 wildkat, and yourself?
Whatever, Commander Birdsong.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Ok, if that is what it means (and I'm not entirely convinced by your answer), why didn't you say that in the first place? The phrase 'to be at cause' doesn't have much meaning in the real world, only in the world of obfuscation belonging to Hubbard do you find it.

You are an ex and an ex auditor. This is language
you've learned. Which is why I used it.

You want to just make me wrong go fly a kite,
preferably somewhere else!
 

Veda

Sponsor
Some background

377504._UY200_.jpg


In 1937 a book titled, 'The Middle Pillar' by Israel Regardie was published. It's very likely that Hubbard was aware if this book.

Wrote Regardie:

[Psycho-therapeutic] Analysis is the logical precursor of spiritual attainment and Magical experiment...

Not until the mind and the emotional system have been cleansed and unified by the cathartic process... can the full spiritual benefits of magical work be reflected into the mind of man
.

...We should remember the parables of the archaic philosophical religions whose fundamental tenet was that within man was a spirit, a dynamic center of consciousness which, because of its contact and association with matter, had been plunged into a profound sleep, a kind of somnambulism...

By endeavoring to extend the horizon of consciousness, to enlarge the field of awareness so as to embrace what previously was unconscious, is obviously a logical method.

To become aware of all our actions, our thoughts and emotions and unsuspected motives, to regard them in their true light as actually they are and not as we would like them to be or as we would wish an onlooker to perceive them. It requires, to take this step, an extraordinary degree of honesty and courage...

The more of this suppressed and forgotten material stored in this at one time unknown or dormant side of our nature that can be raised to the clear light of day, by exactly so much do we awake from the inert stupor into which we have in the past been plunged
.


________​


And then would come "spiritual exercises."

For those excited about such ideas, who have stumbled into Scientology, broadly denouncing everything does not help to extricate them from Scientology.
 

F.Bullbait

Oh, a wise guy,eh?
A third explanation is that the process keeps you amused until nature takes its course and the hiccups go away.

Except that left to themselves, my hiccups used to persist for maybe 20 minutes. Instead of gone in 30 seconds with the automaticity-address thing.



My seeming facile answer does incorporate the false distinction between 'self' and 'nature'. I propose the illusion of 'self' keeps the hiccups in play while 'nature' quickly alleviates them.

One merely distracts the overly complicated 'self' from the hiccups and then 'nature' is able re-establish equilibrium.

An alternative explanation for the observed phenomenon.

Yes, they are gone in 30 seconds rather than 20 minutes but 'self' is not responsible for that.

*****

One of my chief criticisms of Scientology is that it maintains the illusion of 'self' throughout, even when one ascends.

I maintain that 'me' does not become OT. Rather the concept of 'me' falls by the wayside when ascending.

Maintaining 'me' while ascending is the trick and desire of occultism in a deluded search for 'personal power'.




:)
 

JustSheila

Crusader
My seeming facile answer does incorporate the false distinction between 'self' and 'nature'. I propose the illusion of 'self' keeps the hiccups in play while 'nature' quickly alleviates them.

One merely distracts the overly complicated 'self' from the hiccups and then 'nature' is able re-establish equilibrium.

An alternative explanation for the observed phenomenon.

Yes, they are gone in 30 seconds rather than 20 minutes but 'self' is not responsible for that.

*****

One of my chief criticisms of Scientology is that it maintains the illusion of 'self' throughout, even when one ascends.

I maintain that 'me' does not become OT. Rather the concept of 'me' falls by the wayside when ascending.

Maintaining 'me' while ascending is the trick and desire of occultism in a deluded search for 'personal power'.




:)

Great point about Scientology and mysticism attempting to elevate the ego/self, when it is the ego/self that actually restricts spiritual or humanitarian progress.

But nah, I don't think that applies to hiccups. IMO, the hiccup is more like the body's attempt to rectify something out of whack. It's an involuntary physical reaction, after all. Human bodies aren't perfectly symmetrical, perfectly comfortable, or even identical left to right, but they do have their own automatic routines to fix or try to fix most basic things.

The most common triggers for hiccups that last less than 48 hours include:

  • Drinking carbonated beverages
  • Drinking too much alcohol
  • Eating too much
  • Excitement or emotional stress
  • Sudden temperature changes
  • Swallowing air with chewing gum or sucking on candy

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hiccups/basics/causes/con-20031471
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
You are an ex and an ex auditor. This is language
you've learned. Which is why I used it.

You want to just make me wrong go fly a kite,
preferably somewhere else!

Another abject failure to answer a simple question that has been put to you Terril. True to form and like any good scientologist, all you can do is simply attack me.

If you have failed to notice, this is an ex scientologists message board, so it's a bit rich that you should be telling me to go elsewhere, since I am not the one promoting Hubbard's poisonous puke to any unwary passers-by who show up here.

The fact that you are able to proselytize scientology on esmb shows just how tolerant the powers-that-be are. If it were my website you'd be out of here so fast yer feet wouldn't touch the ground matey.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Another abject failure to answer a simple question that has been put to you Terril. True to form and like any good scientologist, all you can do is simply attack me.

If you have failed to notice, this is an ex scientologists message board, so it's a bit rich that you should be telling me to go elsewhere, since I am not the one promoting Hubbard's poisonous puke to any unwary passers-by who show up here.

The fact that you are able to proselytize scientology on esmb shows just how tolerant the powers-that-be are. If it were my website you'd be out of here so fast yer feet wouldn't touch the ground matey.[/QUOTE

I did answer your question.

You seem bent on making me wrong anyway you can.

I in fact usually enjoy your posts and have no bother
that we have opposing viewpoints on the value of Scio.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Another abject failure to answer a simple question that has been put to you Terril. True to form and like any good scientologist, all you can do is simply attack me.

If you have failed to notice, this is an ex scientologists message board, so it's a bit rich that you should be telling me to go elsewhere, since I am not the one promoting Hubbard's poisonous puke to any unwary passers-by who show up here.

The fact that you are able to proselytize scientology on esmb shows just how tolerant the powers-that-be are. If it were my website you'd be out of here so fast yer feet wouldn't touch the ground matey.

I did answer your question.

You seem bent on making me wrong anyway you can.

I in fact usually enjoy your posts and have no bother
that we have opposing viewpoints on the value of Scio.

It must be obvious that something isn't right with the way that your last post looks. This happened a couple of weeks ago as well. It looks blindingly obvious to me what is wrong and how to fix it. Surely with your OT powerz you can figure it out... or maybe you can't...

Leaving it the way it is makes it difficult to navigate the thread perfectly.

Edit: Super-powers not working too well eh Terril? You could try going to where it says [/QUOTE in your post and typing a ']' to close the square bracket. That will do the trick.
 
Last edited:

phenomanon

Canyon
I like to think I've achieved that, to some extent, with my PaulsRobot stuff. However, my main interest has been in getting PaulsRobot to work well, not in training others to wear the practitioner hat.

It's similar to the Dwarf's Div6 video installations that remove live humans as a data source. Yeah, real people are er, more human, but who knows wtf they're going to say/do by themselves?

Paul

When you audit brand new people, You learn that using the English language, rather than Scn jargon, works better.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Thanks.


As an example of the 0.5% of Scientology with the potential to benefit a person, at least in the short term:

I've used a number of Creation of Human Ability processes with interesting results. One that comes to mind is called 'Union Station' ('Other People'). Process 'R2-46', if I recall correctly. It's run outdoors in large areas with lots of people standing around. I've used it several times.

The last time was in an airport, on a somewhat distressed young woman - who couldn't stop hiccuping - waiting in line in front of me. I established contact, by acknowledging her condition by saying - in an upbeat and non-ridiculing way - "hiccups," to which she nodded her head. I then added, "Try this," and before she could say, "no," had her, "Have that person (a person about fifty feet away) have the hiccups. (She understood that that only meant imagine that the person had the hiccups, and proceeded). I had her "give the hiccups" to about a dozen people and the hiccups disappeared. She had no idea that I had run her on an old process from 1950s Scientology, and I didn't tell her, but I could have, and she might be on the Road to Xenu right now, and, if I were still a member of Scientology, I could even be collecting an "FSM" (Field Staff Member) commission.

Hubbard's stuff (and others' stuff with his name substituted) from the 1950s is not all crazy. It had its flashes of brilliance. A lot of people who've ended up on the Scientological hamster wheel :hamster: have, initially, become enchanted with material of this sort.

It would be nice if a person, with a desire to do some kind of auditing - on self or others - had a place to go and satisfy his curiosity without being at risk of being sucked into the Scientology labyrinth.

Unfortunately, the Freezone does not qualify.

It seems that when the manipulation, the hype, and the craziness disappear, the remaining 0.5% is not enough to a attract enough people to make a go of it.

Such a course in the positive (used a bait in Scientology) .05%., along with a companion course in the details of Destructive Cultism, might help some.

The person would have been familiarized with the (seemingly) positive lead in aspect, and familiarized with the negative aspect that lurks behind it.

A pretty thorough inoculation.


Creation of Human Ability ( COHA), was always the "OT Bible".
I have used processes from that book as Life Repair auditing. There are some really fun processes in there for new people.
It was Union Station, and a few other early early 50s proceses that kept me enthralled for 33 years.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
I don't fall on my knees and worship R2-46, but on a few occasions it's alleviated (mild) unwanted conditions. It has to do with "remedying scarcity." Kind of a psychological gimmick that sometimes is effective. The changes are pretty sudden and always appreciated by the person. It's the kind of thing that can hook a person into Scientology. Insisting to the person that what he recognizes as an obvious change by a simple mental exercise, did not occur, usually doesn't help inoculate the person against Scientology.

Yep!
 

phenomanon

Canyon
What's the cheese, or maybe you should say what's the carrot on a stick? :confused2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrot_and_stick

"The "carrot and stick" approach (also "carrot or stick approach") is an idiom that refers to a policy of offering a combination of rewards and punishment to induce good behavior."

Let's consider the Introduction to Scientology Ethics book.:confused2:

But, isn't the carrot "clear", and then later on "OT"?

What if the purpose of Auditing were not to reach those goals with Labels, but to enjoy auditing and being audited just for the fun of it. ( Take out the idea of money, BTW unless it is by barter or voluntary donation).
 

Spazz

New Member
Another abject failure to answer a simple question that has been put to you Terril. True to form and like any good scientologist, all you can do is simply attack me.

If you have failed to notice, this is an ex scientologists message board, so it's a bit rich that you should be telling me to go elsewhere, since I am not the one promoting Hubbard's poisonous puke to any unwary passers-by who show up here.

The fact that you are able to proselytize scientology on esmb shows just how tolerant the powers-that-be are. If it were my website you'd be out of here so fast yer feet wouldn't touch the ground matey.

I apologize for contributing to a derail of a thread but are you saying that if someone who has been abused and harmed by Co$ still thinks well of Hubbard's work and still uses the tech then you don't think they belong here; that they are a threat to the agenda of those who want to throw Hubbard's work on the trash heap of history?
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I apologize for contributing to a derail of a thread but are you saying that if someone who has been abused and harmed by Co$ still thinks well of Hubbard's work and still uses the tech then you don't think they belong here; that they are a threat to the agenda of those who want to throw Hubbard's work on the trash heap of history?

I'd say if somebody has been abused and harmed by scientology (scientology, not scientologists) yet still thinks well of Hubbard's work and still uses the tech, then there must be something wrong with their reasoning faculties. Providing they are not breaking the rules this board should be open to anybody who wants to contribute.

I do what I can to warn people of the dangers of getting involved with scientology, and I do what I can to hinder those who seek to promote it.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
OK, forget the cheese in the trap analogy.

Trying to find the "good bits" in the dump that is Scientology is like taking tweezers to comb through a steaming pile of shit to find a couple kernels of undigested corn, and then arguing the "nutritious value" of those bits of corn.

Yes, the corn may be nutritious, but maybe don't go looking for it in the steaming dump that is Scientology?

There are other places to find nutritious bits that aren't imbedded in a toxic stinking cult.


Fanaticism is always ugly.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
This states it more elegantly. But to be more precise.....

There may be some good ideas in the introductory parts of Scientology but they're not representative of the rest of Scientology, which will waste your time and money, and can be completely destructive to your well-being. Any good you might find is inextricably mixed with a manipulative money-hungry cult.


It absolutely does not have to be that way. It can be done.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
It might be useful to isolate the raisins in the turds. But this could only realistically be done by, say, the 30-year vet who did the Briefing Course and audited in the AO HGC for thousands of hours, or whatever. It is not a project for someone not intimately familiar with the beast.

I'm curious, for example, about the hiccups thing. Is my "taking over the automaticity" a valid explanation? Is Veda's "remedy of scarcity" a valid explanation? Both explanations would be comprehensible to a trained Scio, although I don't know if there are non-Scn equivalents.

Paul

That person would be me.
Those terms look self-explanatory to me.
 
Top