I recently read a book: "Dark Side Of The Moonies" by Erica Heftmann which showed me that the Moonies operate in a similar way to Scientology.
The author of the book had to be kidnapped and "deprogrammed" for weeks before finally accepting she'd been conned.
Personally I'm not happy with the "kidnapping" aspect of this but the book shows just how much discussion and arguing about the tenets of the cult needs to take place before the victim finally realises the truth. It can be days or weeks before something clicks and the usual reaction is for the person to just burst into tears upon the final realisation.
When the author finally got out of the Moonies she helped to deprogram numerous others and she said the strangest one was a rather straight-laced guy who, upon eventually realising the truth, didn't burst into tears. He just sat up straight, slowly took off his glasses and said: "It appears that I have been deceived".
Ha ha Yes, just compare the course rooms of the 60's and 70's. They actually have people in them. But how many of those people are now out, declared or even EXposing the scam. So what do they do?
They present more and more of their promo of buildings and course rooms with NO people in them. Sure there are photos of crowds... it is I suppose not hard to remove one or two or a few more people from a photo of a crowd.
Before ya know it they will hand out Guy Fawkes masks to all who will be photographed at any scientology activity.
When it comes to course fees do they ever offer special offers or negotiate on the costs?
Right! If you do that a few times it's no big deal but the absence of people is so constructed in Scientology that it does make one ponder the mindset behind it. Do they not want people to see staff? Families and friends might recognize them, they are gaunt with dark circles under their eyes, lends credibility when they become critics? And when they do show course rooms packed with happy studious people it is equally artificial - the two most beautiful people in front and the rest fading into the background in descending order of attractiveness. I get a kick out of the ambient shots, showing people walking around the org - except they all look like someone just gave them a "Start!" and they went from freeze to taking their first step. But the group shots at events are also disturbing for the disproportionate number of grey and balding backs of heads. Maybe it's mostly older people who have had time to accumulate wealth and now have free time who can afford to attend and the younger members are somewhere else busily doing the Church's good work?
Has our perception become jaded or are we just attuned to seeing the increasingly stressed attempt to cultivate normality in Scientology PR?
I recently read a book: "Dark Side Of The Moonies" by Erica Heftmann which showed me that the Moonies operate in a similar way to Scientology.
The author of the book had to be kidnapped and "deprogrammed" for weeks before finally accepting she'd been conned.
Personally I'm not happy with the "kidnapping" aspect of this but the book shows just how much discussion and arguing about the tenets of the cult needs to take place before the victim finally realises the truth. It can be days or weeks before something clicks and the usual reaction is for the person to just burst into tears upon the final realisation.
When the author finally got out of the Moonies she helped to deprogram numerous others and she said the strangest one was a rather straight-laced guy who, upon eventually realising the truth, didn't burst into tears. He just sat up straight, slowly took off his glasses and said: "It appears that I have been deceived".
To negotiate prices down is considered a suppressive act and comm-evable offense.
Had the cheek to tell me that I shouldn't handle any purchasing as I work in sales and have empathy for sales people and this point was clear as I was willing to accept a price. they said they had read that in a book about sales people but I said that doesn't meant it automatically applies to all sales people!
I was looking at some marketing data and crm system and they had chipped it down by 40% but they felt I was willing to accept this offer too easily. I've knocked them back for 2 months and they have kept coming back at me with deals and I've deliberately strung it along which has worked from my view point. The deal isn't available now.
It's little remarks like this that wind me up, complete superiority complex as they have the tech! Fortunately I didn't snap as I came close to saying didn't you think to ask for a refund or free course when they told you to redo courses as the previous content was wrong!
Jesus if someone delivered a service or course to me and then said it wasn't valid I'd expect to be refunded and at the very least pretty cheesed off!
I wanted to buy Adobe for about £250 so i could create our own pdf proposals or terms of contract but that was a waste of money. However buying a laptop and Microsoft office so they can work whilst on course isn't!!!!
Requesting a refund in Scientology will get you declared an SP. If you are an SP you can't get a refund. It's a catch 22. The policies say you should get a refund upon request but Scientology policy is to protect LRH and Church and to salve the naive and foolish.
AnonyMary mentions the references I was thinking of in an old post. Cutative Prices can be interpreted as any prices below list = Treason:
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http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ter-on-Charity-!&highlight=charity&styleid=21
AnonyMary said: 28th June 2010 04:26 PM
From one submission:
One such policy demands no free services ( HCO PL 27 November 1971 III FREE SERVICES = FREE FALL ) are to be given by the organisation. It states as follows:
"An Auditor or Course Supervisor delivering a service to an individual without having to hand a fully paid invoice for that service and who does not send the person back to the registrar to be signed up for that service is: A. Covertly robbing his fellow staff members of their pay, and B. In a condition of Treason to his org, and is so assigned."
HCO PL 23 September 1970 Issue I "Organization Series Number Six - Cutative Prices" states:
"PROCESSING MAY NEVER BE GIVEN AWAY BY AN ORG." and "BOOKS MAY NEVER BE GIVEN AWAY BY AN ORG OR BY PUBS ORG [now Bridge Publications Inc. and New Era Publications Inc.] and "ONLY FULLY CONTRACTED STAFF IS AWARDED FREE SERVICE, AND THIS IS DONE BY [a "no charge"] INVOICE AND LEGAL NOTE WHICH BE- COMES DUE AND PAYABLE IF THE CONTRACT IS BROKEN."
The church mandates there be an EXCHANGE in all things Scientology.
Since I posted this thing about getting a refund, I have read some stuff that has lead me to believe that OSA was possibly keeping an eye on me after that and knew I could be a PR risk. I know that sounds paranoid, and maybe crazy to some, but I only audited one last intensive after that before I left Scientology and I remember my auditor (same woman I'd always had -- in fact she audited me all the way up to Clear), started taping the sessions. I wasn't too suspicious about it at the time. Maybe I was. It did make me a little uncomfortable. I was so upset about the whole situation with those regs and I got to a point where I purposely shut myself up because I was being tapped. I knew it looked like I was just "nattering." Now I wonder why. Why were they taping me?
Well despite apparently being skint and that they wouldn't be able to afford more courses or auditing they are extending their stay to do another course.
Think someone said the regs would get hold of them and find a way to get them to buy more auditing/courses on this or another thread. They were right, I pointed it out to them and skipped over the point completely.
Just hope they aren't borrowing or spending investments.
Has anyone had any experiences of attempting to encourage people out of scientology either successfully or unsuccessfully?
I'm interested in people's stories on this matter, what worked and didn't work and the circumstances around them as I appreciate every situation can be different.
I want to help get some people i know well get out but I'm trying to put together a strategy to do so without being declared an sp or pts. Although part of me feels like just unloading everything I have learned and read and just tell them they need to wake up and get out and to hell with being declared if it does or can sow enough doubt! However I know they strongley believe the tech works and that the best thing for this planet is for it to be cleared so is be wasting my time.
So I have dropped subtle questions to date about why they have been asked to redo courses/buy new copies of books and I got the usual reply of they have been tampered with by people who have infiltrated scientology and there was errors so now re-released etc etc. I stated it sounded like a ploy to get extra money and what happens if 5/10 years down the line they ask you to do the same courses again or buy new books what would you do? They did actually say they would throw them all away so fingers crossed! Haha
There has been a few other things I have talked about and tried to drop in countering points to their perspectuve of the flawless system of scientology!
I notice as time goes by the more influence scientology has on their methods, the way they talk, behave, act, how they work etc from reading people's posts on here and it is ringing true for me. The main issue is that they are intensifying the number and level of courses they are doing and now really pushing it onto their kids to the extent they are all now in scientology and on course. I'm unsure if this is a recent emphasis or they just feel that they can trust me and speak openly about what they are doing or maybe they are getting pressure to get them all signed up and in. They even sent me a tech book to help my handle some of my so called issues which granted we can always find improvement but courses have been mentioned too. However more recently I have also been made to feel inept and incapable of the duties in my job because I haven't done the courses or trained for the position I have. They can also be stubborn, always right, come across as superior or firmly believe they are, a disregard to other business courses and also to peoples emotional or health issues as dianetics has the answers and they show a lack of empathy to most things outside of scientology.
So what to do?
The easy thing i guess Is leave them to it and let them figure it out for themselves. They have spent all their money on all these recent courses and that will be a lot.
If you value someone's friendship who is an avid Scientologist, I wouldn't make any attempt. See, it all depends on:
1. How much you want a continued relationship with that person, and
2. To what extent are they believers in Scientology?
If, on #2, they are teetering, sure, go for it. but, if they are solid Scientologists, especially for a long time, I wouldn't even try, that is, if I want a continued relationship with that person.
If you value someone's friendship who is an avid Scientologist, I wouldn't make any attempt. See, it all depends on:
1. How much you want a continued relationship with that person, and
2. To what extent are they believers in Scientology?
If, on #2, they are teetering, sure, go for it. but, if they are solid Scientologists, especially for a long time, I wouldn't even try, that is, if I want a continued relationship with that person.