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Scientology - To criticize and discriminate

JustSheila

Crusader
Okay guys and gals I decided to return after my abrupt and hasty departure. Please understand that I "left" because I was feeling so overwhelmed by the severe ant-SCN and anti-LRH posts I was reading all day long...to the point I felt enturbulated and a headache. Sorry. I thought I'd return to some critical comments about my leaving but there were some very nice comments. Thanks to those who posted them. Funny thing is my wife (bless her heart) who is not and never was in SCN reminded me that what's most important is not everything I read but rather how I feel about my experiences and what is true for me. Made me feel alot better in addition to hearing from some ESMB people that they too feel there was some good experiences for them and that some even still use some SCN principles to this day in their lives. TR8
Thanks Just Shiela :) for what you said below.

You're welcome! WELCOME BACK!!! :party:

You're wife sounds like such a sweetheart. You are so fortunate to have each other. :love2: She is also welcome to join and say hello if she wants, too! :D

ADDED: Prof. Ralph Rowbottom is a good read, I think you'd really enjoy his paper on The Stages of Life, which expands on Eric Ericson in the best way. Click here, he has a free download: http://www.ralphrowbottom.info/the-stages-of-life-a-new-look/ or here if you want to read it online: http://www.ralphrowbottom.info/

You might like some of his other work, too. There's nothing in there that's offensive or even controversial, but he has a good common-sense approach and integrates information from different fields. He's not a guru or anything and unfortunately, only wrote a few papers, but what he wrote is excellent and he's got solid credentials and experience. I hope you find it helpful and it puts a smile on your face, too. :)
 
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phenomanon

Canyon
Oh c'mon! You are a lovely, cantankerous, amazing person and absolutely ADORED here and if I know you at all, I know you do NOT believe your body is much more than a vessel.

One thing I really REALLY like is the way you just speak your mind cause ya know why?

CAUSE YOU GOT THE RANK, BABY!:thumbsup: :biggrin:

and as for this clusterf of a whatever, well... sometimes ya just gotta turn off the news for a while and it all starts to look a lot brighter. :hug:

(PM me if you want to chat.)


Sheila, you are so sweet!
I don't feel bad about it .
I think it's just what it is. Life....Death.
There may not be much difference.
I mostly feel like I'm "leaning on a wall".
The ideas of "Thelma and Louise" sailing off the cliff, or the Chinese Maiden in "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", who spread her arms and sailed off Wuton Mountain are seductive.
There are different levels of depression. Been there. Done that. Took the pills.50 years ago. Don Breeding was my fooking Auditor. He got arrested for child molestation, and I caved in.
I'm generallly pretty oriented to life now. Must be like there's the Life Experience and there's the Death experience.

My big cognition is that none of scientology is bigger than I am. :woohoo:
 

phenomanon

Canyon
No, but TR8 said he overcame it and it was a long time ago.

Feelings of despair can come and go when dealing with your own mortality and lessening physical abilities. Imagine going to a funeral or two every year for someone you knew and loved, imagine hearing about friends contracting fatal illnesses on a regular basis. That could get anyone down. Keeping your head and mind above it all wouldn't be any walk in the park and there's an entire set of issues to deal with at that life stage that most people don't ever have to even think about:

Stage 8: The Ageing Adult
<snip>
http://www.ralphrowbottom.info/the-stages-of-life-a-new-look/


Said better than I could.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Sheila, you are so sweet!
I don't feel bad about it .
I think it's just what it is. Life....Death.
There may not be much difference.
I mostly feel like I'm "leaning on a wall".
The ideas of "Thelma and Louise" sailing off the cliff, or the Chinese Maiden in "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", who spread her arms and sailed off Wuton Mountain are seductive.
There are different levels of depression. Been there. Done that. Took the pills.50 years ago. Don Breeding was my fooking Auditor. He got arrested for child molestation, and I caved in.
I'm generallly pretty oriented to life now. Must be like there's the Life Experience and there's the Death experience.

My big cognition is that none of scientology is bigger than I am. :woohoo:

YAY! :happydance: You go, girl! :thumbsup:

Walls are pretty strong. That should work. It beats leaning on a lamppost - you can break a hip that way! :laugh:

1aa86661ba261d7c2833c7da0b81bf23--poledance-boudoir-photography.jpg



(Unless you're a yoga instructor, you should probably start cutting back on those poses in the next ten years. Walls are much safer! :giggle:) JUST JOKING WITH YOU! TRYING TO GET A LAUGH OUT OF YOU! (Hell, I haven't been able to do that one in a looooong time...)

Have a great night. :hug:
 

Veda

Sponsor
[video=youtube;MPQ6L8Wi4ec]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPQ6L8Wi4ec[/video]

Regarding the open and serious discussion of reincarnation amongst psychotherapists in 1950, and the problem of Jung openly admitting that he consulted earlier lives while giving therapy to others:

"The zeitgeist, the spirit of the times, doesn't allow it. "


_________​


[video=youtube;aFkcAH-m9W0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkcAH-m9W0[/video]


___________​


[video=youtube;BgBr1pt9r44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgBr1pt9r44[/video]


________​


Benjamin Franklin:

"I look upon death to be as necessary to the constitution as sleep. We
shall rise refreshed in the morning."

"And, finding myself to exist in the world, I believe I shall, in some
shape or other always exist."


Jack London, author, best known for book "Call of the Wild":

"I did not begin when I was born, nor when I was conceived. I have been
growing, developing, through incalculable myriads of millenniums. All
my previous selves have their voices, echoes, promptings in me. Oh,
incalculable times again shall I be born."


Mark Twain:

"I have been born more times than anybody except Krishna."


Leo Tolstoy:

"As we live through thousands of dreams in our present life, so is our
present life only one of many thousands of such lives which we enter
from the other more real life and then return after death. Our life is
but one of the dreams of that more real life, and so it is endlessly,
until the very last one, the very real the life of God."


Henry Ford:

"I adopted the theory of reincarnation when I was 26. Genius is
experience. Some think to seem that it is a gift or talent, but it is
the fruit of long experience in many lives".


Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, (German poet, playwright and scientist):

"As long as you are not aware of the continual law of Die and Be Again,
you are merely a vague guest on a dark Earth."


Freidrich Nietzsche:

"Live so that thou mayest desire to live again - that is thy duty - for
in any case thou wilt live again!"


Mahatma Gandhi:

"I cannot think of permanent enmity between man and man, and believing
as I do in the theory of reincarnation, I live in the hope that if not
in this birth, in some other birth I shall be able to hug all of
humanity in friendly embrace."


Ralph Waldo Emerson:

"The soul comes from without into the human body, as into a temporary
abode, and it goes out of it anew it passes into other habitations, for
the soul is immortal."

"It is the secret of the world that all things subsist and do not die, but only retire a little from sight and afterwards return again.

Nothing is dead; men feign themselves dead, and endure mock funerals and there they stand looking out of the window, sound and well, in some strange new disguise."


General George S. Patton:

"So as through a glass and darkly, the age long strife I see, Where I
fought in many guises, many names, but always me."


Albert Schweitzer:

"Reincarnation contains a most comforting explanation of reality by
means of which Indian thought surmounts difficulties which baffle the
thinkers of Europe."


Walt Whitman:

"I know I am deathless. No doubt I have died myself ten thousand times
before. I laugh at what you call dissolution, and I know the amplitude
of time."


William Wordsworth:

"Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting; The Soul that rises with
us, our life's Star, Hath had elsewhere its setting. And cometh from
afar."


Jalalu Rumi (Islamic Poet of the 13th century):

"I died as a mineral and became a plant, I died as a plant and rose to
animal, I died as animal and I was man. Why should I fear ? When was I
less by dying?"


Carl Jung (See above video on Jung in opening post):

"My life often seemed to me like a story that has no beginning and no
end. I had the feeling that I was an historical fragment, an excerpt
for which the preceding and succeeding text was missing. I could well
imagine that I might have lived in former centuries and there
encountered questions I was not yet able to answer; that I had been
born again because I had not fulfilled the task given to me."



Henry David Thoreau:

"Why should we be startled by death? Life is a constant putting off of
the mortal coil - coat, cuticle, flesh and bones, all old clothes."


Socrates:

"I am confident that there truly is such a thing as living again, that
the living spring from the dead, and that the souls of the dead are in
existence."


Jesus Christ in Gnostic Gospels: Pistis Sophia:

"Souls are poured from one into another of different kinds of bodies of
the world."


Voltaire:

"It is not more surprising to be born twice than once; everything in
nature is resurrection."


Koran:

"God generates beings, and sends them back over and over again, till
they return to Him."


Josephus (most well known Jewish historian from the time of Jesus):

"All pure and holy spirits live on in heavenly places, and in course of
time they are again sent down to inhabit righteous bodies."


Honore Balzac (French writer):

"All human beings go through a previous life... Who knows how many
fleshly forms the heir of heaven occupies before he can be brought to
understand the value of that silence and solitude of spiritual worlds?"


Arthur Schopenhauer (Philosopher):

"Were an Asiatic to ask me for a definition of Europe, I should be
forced to answer him: It is that part of the world which is haunted by
the incredible delusion that man was created out of nothing, and that
his present birth is his first entrance into life."


Paul Gauguin (French post-impressionist painter):

"When the physical organism breaks up, the soul survives. It then takes
on another body."


George Harrison:

"Friends are all souls that we've known in other lives. We're drawn to
each other. Even if I have only known them a day., it doesn't matter.
I'm not going to wait till I have known them for two years, because
anyway, we must have met somewhere before, you know."


Pythagoras:

"Among the ancient Greeks, reincarnation was a doctrine closely
associated with the followers of the philosopher and mathematician
Pythagoras. According to Pythagorean teaching, the soul survives
physical death.

"After a series of reincarnations each one following a period of psychic
cleansing in spiritual environments the soul becomes free eternally from
the cycle of reincarnations."


Excerpt from 'The Act of Creation' by Arthur Koestler:

"At the age of twenty-two, he [Benjamin Franklin] composed a Pythagorean epitaph for himself; at the age of eighty-four, the year of his death, he ordered that it should appear, unchanged, on his tomb. It reads:

The Body
Of
Benjamin Franklin
Printer
(Like the Cover of an Old Book
Its Contents Torn Out
And stript of its Lettering and Gilding)
Lies Here, Food for Worms.
But the Work Shall Not Be Lost
For It Will (As He Believed) Appear Once More
In a New and More Elegant Edition
Revised and Corrected
By
The Author



_______​


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiDOMuhpqUo


________​


"Man doth not yield himself to the angels, nor unto death utterly, save only through his feeble will."

Joseph Glanvill
 

phenomanon

Canyon
YAY! :happydance: You go, girl! :thumbsup:

Walls are pretty strong. That should work. It beats leaning on a lamppost - you can break a hip that way! :laugh:

1aa86661ba261d7c2833c7da0b81bf23--poledance-boudoir-photography.jpg



(Unless you're a yoga instructor, you should probably start cutting back on those poses in the next ten years. Walls are much safer! :giggle:) JUST JOKING WITH YOU! TRYING TO GET A LAUGH OUT OF YOU! (Hell, I haven't been able to do that one in a looooong time...)

Have a great night. :hug:


:thankyou::dieslaughing::lol:
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Okay guys and gals I decided to return after my abrupt and hasty departure. Please understand that I "left" because I was feeling so overwhelmed by the severe ant-SCN and anti-LRH posts I was reading all day long...to the point I felt enturbulated and a headache. Sorry. I thought I'd return to some critical comments about my leaving but there were some very nice comments. Thanks to those who posted them. Funny thing is my wife (bless her heart) who is not and never was in SCN reminded me that what's most important is not everything I read but rather how I feel about my experiences and what is true for me. Made me feel alot better in addition to hearing from some ESMB people that they too feel there was some good experiences for them and that some even still use some SCN principles to this day in their lives. TR8
Thanks Just Shiela :) for what you said below.

You belong here. If we didn't have some good times then we never would have done it.

I suggest that if you want to start sharing stories that you create a new thread. The title and Opening Post to this one was kind of like waving a red flag to see if the bull would charge and a cleaner thread would be nice.
 

Gib

Crusader
I enjoyed both posts much. Well said. :thumbsup:

My take for all newbies:
The Basics, The Basics, The Basics!

I sound like a Clive Rabey or Louie Schwartz at a tours event. :biggrin:

No, not those Basics . . . the Heretical Basics!

And the Advanced Index Librorum Prohibitorum (list of prohibited books).

Study three times through per the Class VIII checksheet standard.
View attachment 13737
You just might piece together a more multi-dimensional understanding of Hubbard and his creation. At least you'll make up your own mind about everything, having experienced the Bridge intimately then reading about the behind the scenes events.

Everyone has got to travel their own "road to truth" and make up one's own mind.

What a lot of people don't think about is that if you're a historical figure, very intrusive books are going to be written. No stopping it. The nooks and crannies of your life and work will be examined with a fine-toothed comb.

I think about 16,000 books have been written about Abe Lincoln.

And even 1,000 about the movie star Marilyn Monroe.

If you're going to push out the idea into society that you're this planet's next Savior, the next Buddha (maybe even the reincarnated one), I can pretty well bet you that there will be some books written about you. Better have your tolerance for openness in really good shape. Your life will be laid bare and you'll have no more privacy ever again.

Everything will come out . . . warts and all. Nothing personal. It's a historical figure thing . . . books happen. That's life, baby.

Did LRH see this coming or did he expect to be treated differently by the world's historians and authors?

I digress . . . do yourself a favor and just do the Heretical Basics. :yes:

I lurked for a good solid 6 months before I made my first post here, I read the first shelf books online for free, and read many treads here and on other blogs before I decided to speak. LOL
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I lurked for a good solid 6 months before I made my first post here, I read the first shelf books online for free, and read many treads here and on other blogs before I decided to speak. LOL

Me too (I lurked for 9 months) and I would never have joined at all (even though I wanted to) but my children disconnected from me, so I suddenly had nothing to lose.

Best thing I ever did ... funny old world isn't it?

:unsure:
 

TrevAnon

Big List researcher
Okay guys and gals I decided to return after my abrupt and hasty departure. Please understand that I "left" because I was feeling so overwhelmed by the severe ant-SCN and anti-LRH posts I was reading all day long...to the point I felt enturbulated and a headache.

Welcome back. :yes:

Above, "I love to Lurk" had some really good book suggestions. When reading anti LRH material no longer gives you a headache you might try one of those. IMHO the books by Jon Atack and Lawrence Wright are really good. You may also want to try the Alex Gibney documentary Going Clear.

Also, we may give snark remarks about scilon words like "enturbulated". :hysterical:

More in general, you've now done enough posts to no longer being a "newbie". Board rules say we must be nice to newbies, and as you are no longer one of them.... :omg: :biggrin:


Seriously, start new threads and tell your stories! :thumbsup:
 

RogerB

Crusader
WTF isn't depressed about this earthshit!
When you know that death is just around the next corner, and you think; Where will I die? Who will find my dead body? What condition will my corpse be in? Maybe it would be easier for loved ones if I just make this go right and off myself in the car, where it won't make a mess.
A person who is 70 ( I am 86) might be in bad health.
Some of us are tired enough of this clusterfuck of a planet to consider that death might be the next adventure.
I feel that way about it. But ...I AM 'mental' , so you're right. LOL

Meh:biggrin: :p

Being in the "9th decade" myself I can relate to the reality that one does on occasion look at and wonder: "what it will be like" and "what will I do when this body has done its dash" . . . .:eyeroll::yes:

But, having gone through one accidental death with/from this body, I can say that, knowing what the human existence scene is as you and we old-timers do my Darling Phenom . . . I am looking forward to the adventure . . . BUT NOT BEFORE ITS TIME! :no::no:

I am personally looking forward to being able to continue to address my spiritual state of Being without unwittingly affecting the physical body. The body, currently, is a bit of an impediment in that respect . . . though it does have its other advantages.

But more importantly, I am no longer hung up on having to have another body too soon as I was last time . . . here's the link to the posted data of "last time":
The death at Bronte 1963
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?9333-Ascension-Experience&p=198701&viewfull=1#post198701

Next time, I'll be quite happy to sit out there and do a little looking and experimenting:cloud9: :blush: :eyeroll: :yes:


/
 
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EZ Linus

Cleared Tomato
Thanks EZ Linus:eyeroll:
True, while I did NOT go through every post and link available here I just got an overwhelming dose of total anti-SCN and anti-LRH for one day...but I'm back and feeling better now thanks to people like you and others who are so nice here.
TR8

You're welcome.

Here comes something long though....

I too lurked for a long time before I posted here, and I already knew everything there was to know. I was still just scared of OSA.

I'm a little old school on where to start because a lot of this stuff wasn't out when I found my information, although copies of Hubbard's military records were on the Internet, as well as all of his college transcripts, and that was my first sort of disappointment, or realization -- finding out that my "best friend" lied to me about those things and then the Church was backing it all up, making such theatrics about an exaggerated lie (all the medals of valor, his travels, his engineering background, physics classes, getting injured during action in the Navy, etc.) I'd worked on the L. Ron Hubbard "Humanitarian" exhibit at the HGB building in Hollywood, so I took all these phony credentials really personally.

As for books, I would also recommend Jon Atack's Piece of Blue Sky, but also Margery Wakefield's Road to Xenu. Those are the two that did it for me.

Then, I would think you should read, Cults in Our Midst by Dr. Margaret Singer & Janja Lalich. They are not about Scientology. They are about what makes up dangerous groups and what qualifies as controlling factors in people's lives. Basically, what would break down your healthy critical thinking skills.

If you don't feel like reading this book, there are just eight criteria to read and you can make up your own mind. I promise there is no Anti-Scientology on the page. It was a study done on American Soldiers in captivity before HUbbard even wrote Dianetics. And, it's the shortened version, so there's not even much to read: http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studymindctr/study_mindctr_lifton.htm

About your therapy experience. I totally relate. I went through almost a dozen quakadoodles before finding a very sane Ph.D who knew what she was doing. I put her through the ringer, interviewing her before I would see her to make sure she wasn't a whack job. Remember that many people that strive to get into that field are mentally ill themselves. They want to do good, but can't handle the work. You really have to weed them up. There's a code of conduct they must treat patients under and should be under the supervision of someone with higher credential. They also should have had a certain number of hours under their belt and have done a residency in some facility. ASK about this stuff. I have depression too and will not allow some idiot to treat me. Any red flags (like them speaking about another patient's issues with you), get out! Are they yawning at you? Leave. NEXT.

Anyway. Good luck. I hope you navigate through your situation in a way that makes you feel strong, however you wind up.

Sometimes it takes a while to find the right match. But if you do have depression, it's better to get some kind of treatment (especially if you've had suicidal ideologies) than no treatment at all. I won't mention meds because I know you're on the total opposite spectrum. So was I! Even a decade after I left. And I mean adamant. I'd never dream I'd be taking meds for my depression, but if I weren't on them, I would have offed myself a while ago. Deep down I knew this and I forced myself to take the pills to save my life. Save myself from doing something really stupid when I wasn't in my right mind.
 

RogerB

Crusader
tr8theta;1150043[COLOR=#ff0000 said:
]Okay guys and gals I decided to return after my abrupt and hasty departure. Please understand that I "left" because I was feeling so overwhelmed by the severe ant-SCN and anti-LRH posts I was reading all day long...to the point I felt enturbulated and a headache. [/COLOR]Sorry. I thought I'd return to some critical comments about my leaving but there were some very nice comments. Thanks to those who posted them. Funny thing is my wife (bless her heart) who is not and never was in SCN reminded me that what's most important is not everything I read but rather how I feel about my experiences and what is true for me. Made me feel alot better in addition to hearing from some ESMB people that they too feel there was some good experiences for them and that some even still use some SCN principles to this day in their lives. TR8
Thanks Just Shiela :) for what you said below.

Well, tr8theta . . .

Conflicted data, concepts and/or propositions will do that to any sane and decent Being . . . I personally liked your open and inquiring original post, and said so.

But, having lived a lot more of the Scientology experience than I saw you relate in your post, it was rather incumbent on me to answer you questions honestly . . .

I too got taken in by the fraud and I too also got great gains from tasting it . . .

But the fact is, one will only stay sane and truly benefit from the experience if one can debug the experience correctly and wheat from the chaff.

R
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
///
I'm a little old school on where to start because a lot of this stuff wasn't out when I found my information, although copies of Hubbard's military records were on the Internet, as well as all of his college transcripts, and that was my first sort of disappointment, or realization -- finding out that my "best friend" lied to me about those things and then the Church was backing it all up, making such theatrics about an exaggerated lie (all the medals of valor, his travels, his engineering background, physics classes, getting injured during action in the Navy, etc.) I'd worked on the L. Ron Hubbard "Humanitarian" exhibit at the HGB building in Hollywood, so I took all these phony credentials really personally.
///

How did they treat the fact that he had 3 wives and 7 children in the exhibit?
 

tr8theta

I Love Kitties
Trev- I hear that you are the "reasearch and find it man" Yesterday I came upon a link in one of the forum threads to Lois Reisdorf's story of being in the CMO...but I lost it.:melodramatic:
Would you be able to give it to me? Thank you:)
TR8

Welcome back. :yes:

Above, "I love to Lurk" had some really good book suggestions. When reading anti LRH material no longer gives you a headache you might try one of those. IMHO the books by Jon Atack and Lawrence Wright are really good. You may also want to try the Alex Gibney documentary Going Clear.

Also, we may give snark remarks about scilon words like "enturbulated". :hysterical:

More in general, you've now done enough posts to no longer being a "newbie". Board rules say we must be nice to newbies, and as you are no longer one of them.... :omg: :biggrin:


Seriously, start new threads and tell your stories! :thumbsup:
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Trev- I hear that you are the "reasearch and find it man" Yesterday I came upon a link in one of the forum threads to Lois Reisdorf's story of being in the CMO...but I lost it.:melodramatic:
Would you be able to give it to me? Thank you:)
TR8

Tom, lol, you need to get better at using Google. Do you use a search engine? I just typed in Lois Reisdorf CMO and it was the first item that came up. Here is your link:

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-lois-reisdorf-story-part-1/
 

tr8theta

I Love Kitties
Tom, lol, you need to get better at using Google. Do you use a search engine? I just typed in Lois Reisdorf CMO and it was the first item that came up. Here is your link:

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-lois-reisdorf-story-part-1/
<---WRONG LINK

I DID google her name and came up with the exact same link (you just provided above) which when I got there only showed the very beginning of her story which I thought (perhaps erroneously?) much more had been written "somewhere". Lo and behold I just found the correct link I was looking for by my very own self :p
http://scientolipedia.org/info/Lois_Reisdorf's_Story
TR8
 
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