This guy claims to be LRH

[DagwoodGum]

Maybe he's so thoroughly scientologized himself that he doesn't even realize that's what he looks like. He claims he did the entire Bridge in 6 months. He's "out of valence." He definitely needs to "find out who he really is." I think a few months of isolation from ALL scn materials and jargon would probably do it, though the awakening might not be pleasant.

I read a little of his website. I find it interesting that he claims to have left a lot of the old Ron behind. He doesn't write like the old Ron, who could write with some pizzazz, when he was actually trying, and spell.

I think when leaving scn, some of us go through stages, like:

1. CoS bad; Ron good, tech good.
2. CoS bad; Ron a little weird, maybe; tech good.​

3. CoS bad; Ron pretty skeevy, actually; but tech still mostly good.​

4. CoS bad; Ron a liar and (brilliant) con artist; maybe a few useful bits in the tech, but best avoided due to other baggage.​

​

This guy claiming to be a "new, improved" Ron adds a new wrinkle. Don't like the old lying, narcissistic, womanizing, "all men will be my slaves" Ron? Well, here's a kinder gentler one! Don't let the old Ron scare you off! Ron's a much nicer guy now, see?

pinapple,
I like your 4 steps.
I am concerned that perhaps I err in recommending that people save the tid bits of Scientology that are worth saving per step 4.
My thought has been, "Hell, Ron ripped someone else off for the idea so why not rip him off for the same "pearls of great price" as the Mormons refer to valuable scriptures.
But it may be that some are better off to flush the whole turd burrito because to sit toilet side and pick the undigested beans out before you flush it is not only mighty unappetizing but may land you in the ER if you're not careful.
Maybe the hold over truths are not worth the chance one takes by trying to sift them out and risk picking up a bug.
The way I look at it is that I'm on Earth to learn and evolve so why should I let Hubbard cheat me out of my progress just because he had the audacity to brand everything he hog tied with his LRH iron and take all the credit for it whereas he may just have lifted & reworded it from some other "source" that I would have likely encountered sooner or later anyway.
What do you think on that?

 

[pineapple]

You know, I was kidding in my fake movie scenario a little earlier when I said maybe we could have Miscavige behind the fake Ron, in a desperate attempt to bolster the failing cult. But if you like conspiracy theories (to which I generally don't subscribe) ... could CoS be behind this? Sort of like "let's run it up the flagpole and see who salutes"? If a lot of people go for the fake Ron, maybe they'll let him "have his head" as they say, if it'll bring people in (or back in) to the cult ...? Hmmm ...

 

[DagwoodGum]

You know, I was kidding in my fake movie scenario a little earlier when I said maybe we could have Miscavige behind the fake Ron, in a desperate attempt to bolster the failing cult. But if you like conspiracy theories (to which I generally don't subscribe) ... could CoS be behind this? Sort of like "let's run it up the flagpole and see who salutes"? If a lot of people go for the fake Ron, maybe they'll let him "have his head" as they say, if it'll bring people in (or back in) to the cult ...? Hmmm ...

Oh I know that you were tongue and cheek about the whole thing but I was taken by the creativity that went into it.
I'm usually the one that comes up with all that kind of wild assed shit in my social circles and where I've worked so I enjoy it immensely when someone else picks up the flag and march's with it letting me be the spectator.

 

[pineapple]

pinapple,
I like your 4 steps.
I am concerned that perhaps I err in recommending that people save the tid bits of Scientology that are worth saving per step 4.
My thought has been, "Hell, Ron ripped someone else off for the idea so why not rip him off for the same "pearls of great price" as the Mormons refer to valuable scriptures.
But it may be that some are better off to flush the whole turd burrito because to sit toilet side and pick the undigested beans out before you flush it is not only mighty unappetizing but may land you in the ER if you're not careful.
Maybe the hold over truths are not worth the chance one takes by trying to sift them out and risk picking up a bug.
The way I look at it is that I'm on Earth to learn and evolve so why should I let Hubbard cheat me out of my progress just because he had the audacity to brand everything he hog tied with his LRH iron and take all the credit for it whereas he may just have lifted & reworded it from some other "source" that I would have likely encountered sooner or later anyway.
What do you think on that?

I still think there's some useful stuff at the lower end of the bridge. I think if you use what actually works for you and discard what doesn't, the dross will eventually fall away and you'll be left with the few grains of gold. I might still do TR's 0-4 if there was anyone who wanted to do them with me. That's where I got most of my gains in scn. And I still believe today, 35+ years later, that they were real gains. Anything else, I'm much less sure about.

We know there are no OT's or Book I clears, and no matter how much auditing or training you do, there's never going to be any. The lower grades probably won't hurt you, but once you know it's a blind alley, a dead end ... Dianetics, run the way it was circa 1970 where you did a White Form and then ran what the pc was interested in running, might produce good results. I never saw it done that way, though. When I was in we did drug r/d's that went for hundreds of hours because we ran every reading item without checking interest. This forces the pc into whole track fantasy which is tacitly validated by the auditor, who cannot correct or invalidate the pc's data. Done this way, I believe it's a form of intentional brainwashing that undermines the pc's ability to distinguish fantasy from reality. "Reality is proportional to charge off the case," LRH said. Reality = your agreement with his reality.

I think, if you feel you need therapy, find someone with some actual credentials as a therapist. I had 2 1/2 years of psychoanalysis back in the 80's, a few years after I got out of scn, and found it infinitely more worthwhile. (Cheap, too. My therapist charged on a sliding scale. I paid $17/hour.)

If it's "enlightenment" you're after (whatever that might be), you could try meditation. I did Zen meditation for about 2 years roughly 10 years ago, on my own, no formal instruction, just read up on it and did it. A lot like OT-TR0, but you don't close your eyes and you're allowed to count from one to ten over and over. I felt having done god knows how many hours of OT-TR0 before, definitely gave me a leg up here. I got very good results from this; I even blew a chronic somatic. The trick is to "sit just to sit," JUST BE THERE and don't try to do anything else. (Even trying to be there is doing something else. ) Don't do it for any reason or with any goal in mind. Of course this is much harder than it sounds. I eventually stopped because I just felt like it would be OK if I did, like I'd given myself permission to stop. It was good, though, if sometimes frustrating. I might take it up again someday if I feel like I want to.

I've edited my earlier post about the few good bits in scn: I changed "best avoided" to "no big deal."

 

[guanoloco]

Well...this guy is too late by several orders of magnitude.

Andreas Buttler claims to be the reincarnated L.
Ron Hubbard.

http://www.ivymag.org/bh.html
​

Amd then there's this:

I learned that Allen Wright in Sydney, Australia, told Stephanie Relfe (both Freezone) that there were 3 separate Hubbards at different times. Allen Wight told her that they had three very different shoe and body sizes. And that these “Hubbards” had different voices and personalities. Others told her that the Scientology technology had three main eras, each one quite different from the others. Andre Tabayoyon allegedly also said something similar. He claimed that he was LRH’s butler for many years. And there is also Olivia Korringa who said back in the 70’s that her sister met “LRH” in an elevator – and he looked a lot different, smaller…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/barbar...-three-different-versions-of-scientology/amp/

​

 

[pineapple]

Well...this guy is too late by several orders of magnitude.

Andreas Buttler claims to be the reincarnated L.
Ron Hubbard.​

​

http://www.ivymag.org/bh.html​

​

Amd then there's this:

I learned that Allen Wright in Sydney, Australia, told Stephanie Relfe (both Freezone) that there were 3 separate Hubbards at different times. Allen Wight told her that they had three very different shoe and body sizes. And that these “Hubbards” had different voices and personalities. Others told her that the Scientology technology had three main eras, each one quite different from the others. Andre Tabayoyon allegedly also said something similar. He claimed that he was LRH’s butler for many years. And there is also Olivia Korringa who said back in the 70’s that her sister met “LRH” in an elevator – and he looked a lot different, smaller… ​

​

https://www.google.com/amp/s/barbar...-three-different-versions-of-scientology/amp/​

​

​

The different-sized/different-looking LRH's during Ron 1.0's lifetime are easily accounted by his massive OT powers. As for previous LRH claimants since Ron 1.0's death: like ILove2Lurk suggested, Ron 1.0's BT's coming back.

It's all possible when you believe.

 

[guanoloco]

I'm Ron.

HIP! HIP!

 

[pineapple]

This guy is probably just a crazy Freezoner; but doesn't CoS infiltrate squirrel groups, too? (To them the FZ is a squirrel group.) I know they used to, because I knew a guy who told me he did it for the GO (forerunner of OSA). This was back in the 70's. The person who told me, I consider a very reliable source.

This guy had been a mainstay of our mission. He was my course supervisor from the Comm Course through HSDC (the Dns course that preceded NED). Eventually, like many of us, he wasn't happy on staff, and somehow suddenly he wasn't on staff anymore. He hadn't blown or anything. He just seamlessly routed off. Wow, what happened?

He had a wog job as manager of an apartment building not far from the mission, and he got me a job there as a security guard, working from 10:30 pm - 5:30 am. I used to go there after I got off post at the mission. So I asked him how come he wasn't at the mission anymore, though apparently still in scn and in good standing.

He told me in confidence that he'd made a deal with the GO; they'd get him out of his staff contract if he did a job for them. The job was infiltrating a local squirrel group. He didn't give me details about the group. But he told me what he was supposed to do there was encourage them to be MORE SQUIRRELLY, to diverge as much as possible from standard tech. The idea was that the more squirrelly they got the worse their results would be, and this would cause people to leave and the group to break up.

I guess in many cases people in "squirrel" groups are really just looking for standard tech, but without the added bullshit CoS imposes, so this strategy might well have worked. (I saw two examples of supposed "squirrel" auditing while I was in scn. In both cases the auditing looked fine from the folder.) But I find it interesting that the GO would ENCOURAGE out-tech rather than let people get "standard" tech outside CoS. What happened to "Any auditing is better than no auditing"?

So, could this fake Hubbard guy actually be a plant sent into the Freezone by CoS in an attempt to discredit it? The more I think about this idea, the less implausible it seems.

 

[programmer_guy]

pineapple,

When you said "This guy had been a mainstay of our mission" are you referring to Hawaii or Riverside?

 

[pineapple]

pineapple,

When you said "This guy had been a mainstay of our mission" are you referring to Hawaii or Riverside?

Hawaii.

 

[FoTi]

https://www.lronhubbardrising.com/about-us

Note: Scroll to the bottom of the above link. This Bozo wants you to DONATE!!!!! Make money! Make more money! Money, money, money makes Scientology go 'round, Scientology go 'round,......Give big guys. Become a whale for the newly minted LRH

This most powerful OT needs your money.

 

[ThetanExterior]

https://www.lronhubbardrising.com/about-us

Note: Scroll to the bottom of the above link. This Bozo wants you to DONATE!!!!! Make money! Make more money! Money, money, money makes Scientology go 'round, Scientology go 'round,......Give big guys. Become a whale for the newly minted LRH

This most powerful OT needs your money.

LRH says in HCO PL Org Ethics and Tech:

“If the org slumps… don’t engage in ‘fund-raising’ or ‘selling postcards’ or borrowing money. Just make more income with Scientology. It’s a sign of very poor management to seek extraordinary solutions for finance outside Scientology. It has always failed. For orgs as for pcs, ‘Solve It With Scientology’. Every time I myself have sought to solve financial or personnel in other ways than Scientology I have lost out. So I can tell you from experience that org solvency lies in more Scientology, not patented combs or fund-raising barbeques.”

Seems like the new Ron has forgotten some basic lessons he learned when he was last here.

 

[DagwoodGum]

The different-sized/different-looking LRH's during Ron 1.0's lifetime are easily accounted by his massive OT powers. As for previous LRH claimants since Ron 1.0's death: like ILove2Lurk suggested, Ron 1.0's BT's coming back.

It's all possible when you believe.

But wouldn't his kids and Mary Sue have noticed that it wasn't the real Ron?
Sure they would have in an instant so I'm no believer that there were different Rons.
The only way there might have been is if Ron himself hired someone who just happened to bear an uncanny resemblance to him to run interference and serve as a decoy.
Then the FBI, process servers, all types of legal wranglings would fail as they'd find out through fingerprinting that this isn't the real Ron after all but some guy named Marty Spiegel from Decatheter, Illinois.
I think this type of thing came up due to the mystery & vacuum caused by Ron going into hiding and living high on the hog from the monies he absconded with from bleeding out the various org and missions.

 

[DagwoodGum]

If it's "enlightenment" you're after (whatever that might be), you could try meditation.

I never tried meditation but I find enlightenment every now and again just through the internet.
It's like being tied into every university, guru head trip, religion's archives etc. any time one cares to look.
Just considering the advantages this now gives a person eliminates the need to go cult chasing anymore and I'm so grateful!
Also I agree with everything you said above and I couldn't have said it better myself so I'll let it go at that for now. Thanks a lot!

 

[John P. Capitalist]

Yeah, I think the new "Hubbard" is a troll, possibly mounted by OSA as another op to rope in the few indies still out there.

The clue is the e-mail address of "[email protected]." If you just google "thetastatic20" it comes up as an e-mail address of "thetastatic20@yahoo.com" which has been used occasionally as an email by Justin Craig, who's affiliated with the "Elma Free Zone," a couple of people in rural Elma, Washington state, USA, who supposedly run an "indie" center offering "bridge" progress. Their blog hasn't had anything posted on since around 2014, so they may be retired or in poor health or something.

The similarity and not identical nature of the e-mail address looks like someone is up to something a bit more sinister than just putting up a post for the lulz, though it's not clear to me what they're doing. It's hard to believe that the indies are any kind of threat to the corporate COS at this point, though maybe that's the point: just to see if they get any responses of people who actually think this is genuine.

 

[pineapple]

LRH says in HCO PL Org Ethics and Tech:

“If the org slumps… don’t engage in ‘fund-raising’ or ‘selling postcards’ or borrowing money. Just make more income with Scientology. It’s a sign of very poor management to seek extraordinary solutions for finance outside Scientology. It has always failed. For orgs as for pcs, ‘Solve It With Scientology’. Every time I myself have sought to solve financial or personnel in other ways than Scientology I have lost out. So I can tell you from experience that org solvency lies in more Scientology, not patented combs or fund-raising barbeques.”

Seems like the new Ron has forgotten some basic lessons he learned when he was last here.

Well, it took the old Ron some time to get to a financial position where he could disdain asking for donations. In Martin Gardner's "Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science," he talks about Self Analysis (1951):

At the back of the book the "editor" -- probably Hubbard -- steals some of Wilhelm Reich's current thunder. While the atom bomb was being developed, the editor says, Hubbard was quietly working on a constructive use of atomic energy. "In 1947 he had found how this unruly energy could be smoothed out and rearranged in a mind so that thought would be sane, not insane. He had found how this energy governed the body functions." A touching footnote informs the reader of Hubbard's present financial plight. "He carries on the advance line of dianetic research without even the assistance of a secretary. He does not even own a car and he writes on a second hand Remington he bought years ago. A few volunteer contributions from friends and people whom his work has helped are his chief support. He has refused to take advantage of any part of the money made by the Foundation on the grounds that he would rather it helped others. Any contribution that you might care to make to him would help a man who is giving everything he has to help you -- the Editor."

So Ron 1.0 wasn't always too good to ask for donations, either.
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/gardner/

 

[DagwoodGum]

I still think there's some useful stuff at the lower end of the bridge. I think if you use what actually works for you and discard what doesn't, the dross will eventually fall away and you'll be left with the few grains of gold. I might still do TR's 0-4 if there was anyone who wanted to do them with me. That's where I got most of my gains in scn. And I still believe today, 35+ years later, that they were real gains. Anything else, I'm much less sure about.

My thoughts on the grades, as best I remember 40 yrs later, is that they seemed to follow along the lines of fashioning steering questions along the 4 flows from basic affirmations.
This was verified for me when I was shown on this message board that Hubbard used affirmations, and some pretty bizarre ones about domination and conquest on a daily basis in those earlier years of his life.
He may have been too far gone in his later years, possibly through substance abuse and lack of necessity to bother anymore with affirmations, outgrew them if you will.
But to steer the pc into positive thoughts with regard to his abilities and not his disabilities, whether it was delusional or not, did seem to have positive results.
An example is "From where could you communicate with an idiot?" - taken from a read on a listing question, left one feeling that they could at least talk with an idiot, perhaps relieving some pent up frustrations with regard to people too stupid to reason with. Many such similar nature'd steering questions, all performing like expanded upon affirmations.
The last thing I ever did In Scn was when I went back for a comm course retread in the late 70's because I felt like my TR's had been knocked out by life in the WOG branch of the MEST universe.
What I found was that this next time around there were no more benefits to be gained or regained as my belief in all of it wasn't there anymore after seeing all the craziness from the Sea Org, Ethics etc..
It ALL just felt like a ridiculous waste of time and as I watched people doing those little clay demos it occurred to me that they could only confront the outside world through these little weird "via's" to use their own terminology in they're dismantlement.
The real world had to be shrunk down and modeled in these little childish demos to match the deterioration of their confront and I was actually embarrassed for them.
I did still retain the feeling that I had gained confidence in my abilities that I had my attention drawn to them during the grades I through IV.
However as I've said many times is that on Grade IV I saw that most peoples obsessive devotion and insistence that Scn was THE one and only way out of "the trap" was because it had become their new and primary ser fac.
If anyone pointed out anything wrong with Scn it would provoke a hostile reaction and you could expect a KR getting written and getting ones ass hauled into "ethics" for that circus.
People had developed a dependency on Scn always being right and they piggybacked and fed upon that for their own codependent vicarious "rightness".
If Scn was shown to be wrong in any way they'd just cave the fuck in!
I want to get the message out that Scn is just plain wrong in what all they put their public through and from that I want people to expand and not contract or cave the fuck in, by no means!

 

[phenomanon]

pinapple,
I like your 4 steps.
I am concerned that perhaps I err in recommending that people save the tid bits of Scientology that are worth saving per step 4.
My thought has been, "Hell, Ron ripped someone else off for the idea so why not rip him off for the same "pearls of great price" as the Mormons refer to valuable scriptures.
But it may be that some are better off to flush the whole turd burrito because to sit toilet side and pick the undigested beans out before you flush it is not only mighty unappetizing but may land you in the ER if you're not careful.
Maybe the hold over truths are not worth the chance one takes by trying to sift them out and risk picking up a bug.
The way I look at it is that I'm on Earth to learn and evolve so why should I let Hubbard cheat me out of my progress just because he had the audacity to brand everything he hog tied with his LRH iron and take all the credit for it whereas he may just have lifted & reworded it from some other "source" that I would have likely encountered sooner or later anyway.
What do you think on that?

( deleted)

 

[ILove2Lurk]

It's all possible when you believe.

Brilliant!

That should be a new slogan for Scientology, LOL!

Footnote: On his website, the contact phone number given is in area code 951,
which is Riverside County and includes Hemet and East Hemet.

 

[TheSneakster]

It seems obvious this guy is a nutter. But I've seen indications at least a couple of the bigger named Freezoners are falling for it.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011