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Judge to Garcias: Scientology can lie and cheat and there’s nothing I can do about it

FoTi

Crusader
Neither you nor anyone else has said this but many here often speak to me as if I were wearing blinders.

Which is not to say my eyes have no blind spot nor to claim wool has never been combed over my baby blues
That's because your posts lead one to conclude that you are wearing blinders.

Maybe you need to remove that wool, so that you can see what others have been trying to tell you.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Hardly necessary when my assessment of "Clear" is of long standing.

The Church then and now states it does not guarantee results

It is not fraud to sell and deliver auditing and auditor training
CP...see if you can wrap your mind around the following definitions for the word fraud.

fraud
frôd/Submit
noun
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
"he was convicted of fraud"
synonyms: fraudulence, cheating, swindling, embezzlement, deceit, deception, double-dealing, chicanery, sharp practice; More
a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.
"mediums exposed as tricksters and frauds"
synonyms: impostor, fake, sham, charlatan, quack, mountebank; More

Feedback
Fraud - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud
In law, fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right

Definition of fraud
1 a : deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right was accused of credit card fraud
b : an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : trick automobile insurance frauds
2 a : a person who is not what he or she pretends to be : impostor He claimed to be a licensed psychologist, but he turned out to be a fraud.; also : one who defrauds : cheat
b : one that is not what it seems or is represented to be The UFO picture was proved to be a fraud.

The EPs on LRH's Grade Chart are used to get people to pay for auditing and training, getting them to think that if they do these services they will receive these benefits. This is used to get people to buy services....thinking that they will be achieving the state of Clear and OT if they buy these services. This is fraud because nobody will ever get there.....no one has....no one will. LRH was selling smoke and mirrors. That is fraud.....deceiving the public to get their money into his pocket so that he would become a millionaire.
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Here's one the frauds perpetrated on Luis Garcia. He was bamboozled into paying for the cross above the Super Power Building in Clearwater with high pressure $60,000 telling him it would be HIS monument, his legacy...etc.etc only to find out later a ton of other people also coughed up $60,000 and were told the same spin, all paid for the same cross.

SuperPowerCross.jpg
 

Gib

Crusader
They're doing things which were not done when Hubbard was here

Selling "Status" f'crissakes

The joint is run by Catholics HH and RCC's fund-raising tech is being applied

The nature of Hubbard's work is such that it does lend itself to fraud in ways difficult to prove. But, when it sells and delivers auditing and auditor training it is NOT committing fraud. I saw no taint at all when I started in San Francisco at a CLIV org commissioned just three years earlier and rife with old members of ARCBA, the group which formed during Hubbard's 1950 Oakland lectures; real salt of the earth decent human beings. At FCDC...well...mostly everything was kosher. Then there were some things which didn't seem quite level and square...


p.s. The Smithsonian, an august and highly regarded institution did recently number LRH as one of The 100 Most significant figures of American history. The old buzzard's place in history is quite well assured HH
Commander Birdsong, the very first status sold by Hubbard was indeed "clear" in 1950 dianetics. Then Hubbard sold his words later as OT, you know the PDC's, the phoenix lectures, etc.

The present time COS sells it as religion with no proof or legal responsibility with contracts signed.

Now, why would one sign a contract, the answer is simple. people like me and Garcia's believed in Hubbard's rhetoric that one could go clear, and then OT, and save mankind, and we never thought Hubbard lied. We was duped in other words.
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
When the Garcias initially agreed to submit to the CoS arbitration they were in good standing. Subsequently the CoS declared them. So why did that not cancel the original agreement? It seems to me the law really is an ass.
 
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strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
<snip>




p.s. The Smithsonian, an august and highly regarded institution did recently number LRH as one of The 100 Most significant figures of American history. The old buzzard's place in history is quite well assured HH
Hitler's place in history is well assured, but that doesn't automatically mean he did good things!
 
What I fail to see is how in Judge Whittemore's mind the First Amendment trumps criminally perpetrated fraud. That was my question when this first hit the interweb, and it remains unanswered. This man does not deserve to be a judge if he can't see the trees because of the forest.

Mimsey
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
LOL, they included former Scientologist Charles Manson in that list as well.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smit...ost-significant-americans-all-time-180953341/
LOL

There is a big difference between Charles Manson and L. Ron Hubbard. . .

While Hubbard boasted that he would "...smash my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form....", only Charles Manson succeeded in making that postulate work.

By comparison, Ron Hubbard only was able to smash his name into history so comically that it will take a legendary form....".

Ergo, the name "L. Ron Hubbard" has become the punch line to a joke that only Scientologists are too low toned to laugh at.

.
 
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Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
HH, Stratsie, Gib, the charming and cherished Karenina, the equally C&C FoTi, and the ever trigger-happy grunt who usually walks point when your squad patrols the jungle lair of esmb's Wild Man of Borneo...

A. The late lamented Arnoldo was not "speaking with authority" when he named Charlie as a Scientologist, Charlie is not known to have ever claimed to be a Scientologist and I'm not expecting CoS will ever claim him a one of their own. But you don't need him, you got Rex Fowler, you got that guy who went OTVII zipped up to Vegas, blew a hunnert grand on the tables, stormed into the local org screaming he wanted his $$$ back and was found chopped to bits a week later and a goodly list of other delightfully interesting "Scientologists In Good Standing" (see new thread)

B. Forty years after being "active in the church" I remain exceedingly well pleased with that which I purchased from CoS

C. Someone who cares as deeply as I about the proper study and practice of auditing will accept blinders neither from CoS nor it's critics

D. That is a fine point Gibsie...
IAS is very openly selling status for which on receives garish tchochkes an preferred seating which was not done back in the day but back then there were those whose time in the chair on both sides of the meter was done with an eye to the status of the cert

E Although I do not wear blinders FoTi...

It is true that the intangible nature of subject lends it to forms of fraud which can not be prosecuted and it's status as a religion adds extra cover. Welcome to America; welcome to the land of Caveat Emptor. I'm fond of Roget's Thesaurus myself but you have overlooked perhaps the most commonly used characterizton of Ron in his first decade; that he was "a Barnum". Maybe it was a melange of falsehood and gilt but it was a show worth its paying customers

Also...

The musicians who produced the first sounds for the "better living though chemistry" version of scientology; the first psychedelic band called themselves "The Charlatans"

F. Awright HH...

Gimme ten one and two line jokes with L Ron Hubbard as a Punchline

No Hurry

Just gimme yer best game
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
F. Awright HH...

Gimme ten one and two line jokes with L Ron Hubbard as a Punchline

No Hurry

Just gimme yer best game

There are countless jokes for which "L. RON HUBBARD" is the punchline.

Okay, let's just make one up in the next 0.0342 seconds:

WHO OR WHAT IS THE SP THAT IS THE ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY THAT IS DESTROYING YOUR LIFE,
KEEPING YOU ENSLAVED TO A CULT, WHILE YOU ROLLERCOASTER, BECOME PHYSICALLY ILL, FAIL,
FEEL CRAZY & GO BANKRUPT----BESIDES L. RON HUBBARD WHO HAS SCIENTIFICALLY BEEN PROVEN
TO BE YOUR GREATEST FRIEND THAT DEVELOPED THIS VERY TECH QUESTION TO HELP YOU?
.
HELPFUL TIP TO PCS: If you even think about answering your PTS "Search & Discovery" question with
any reference to Dr. Hubbard, you will promptly be routed to ethics, given an Non-Enturbulation Order
and variously harassed and terrorized until you blow, get declared as the "ACTUAL SP", after which
the COS ("Crimewave of Scientology") will disconnect you from all your friends, business associates
and family, bankrupt you and then try to frame and send you to federal prison with manufactured
evidence. While all this happens, one of your "friends" will try to help you go insane so that you
get committed to a mental hospital or more ideally commit suicide because that is the greatest
good for Scientology and Ron and mankind. We at the Church of Scientology are only interested
in helping you flourish and prosper so that you can be totally free and totally happy for eternity.
You should really take advantage of this kindness and generosity before we are forced to murder you.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Nah...

You can't do that at a mike in a cabaret and get a laugh HH

Channel Lenny Bruce man...

He'd mop the floor with his audience if he were here to answer this challenge
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Many promises are made in the "religious scriptures" including 100% results!

Check HCOB 20 OCT 68 "The Purpose of Class VIII"

All of Scientology is predicated upon creating Clears and OT's and Clearing the planet. If they can't Clear a single individual how is that not fraud?
Oh don't be silly Pitsy!

Of course CoS delivers 100% results!

It just takes longer with some than it does for others...

Nobody's hurrying you, you can come in now and write up your o/w's or wait till next lifetime or the lifetime after that
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Nah...

You can't do that at a mike in a cabaret and get a laugh HH

Channel Lenny Bruce man...

He'd mop the floor with his audience if he were here to answer this challenge
Nah.

Lenny Bruce is dead.

L. Ron Hubbard is dead.

The tech is dead.

The only "mopping" going on is loyal officers like yourself, still hiding in remote jungles who didn't get word yet that the war was lost and the imperial-imperious "Emperor" long since surrendered.

HELPFUL TIP: After the divine dianetic dictator dr. hubbard caved in and admitted that his tech didn't work, everyone else was supposed to pause for a brief moment, slap themselves in the forehead and exclaim: "Wow that was majorly fucked up, what wuz I thinking to join a stupid cult?!" Then, they typically took a day off to reflect and cringe, after which they could re-boot a new life without the incessant lies of L. Ron Hubbard circulating in their reactive brains and spilling out their mouth. So, for all you "STRAGGLERS" left behind in the jungle: "THE WAR IS OVER! THE WAR IS OVER!!" And at your earliest convenience, get yourself onto a new routing form that takes you far, far, far away from orbiting eternally around Hubbard's dark planet and its toxic gravity.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
My bank account was Cleared upon my departure, and I had 12 cents remaining in my pocket, so CoS did get a 100% result in my case.
If you can get hold of a CoS BRE, put a dime and two pennies in it then tape it to a brick and drop it in a mailbox.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Very smart on the judge's part. He will no longer be a target of the sciobots... there will be an appeal before another judge who can stand tall or fold to "them"... either way another appeal by one side or the other... then another.

It could go all the way to the supremes... and I don't mean the singing group. Arbitration is under fire all over the country and is being ruled against over and over again. By the time... if the time... it makes it to the top the sciobots will loose some of the intimidation power the higher it goes.

Don't get me wrong no judge in his right mind wants to touch the religion issue... BUT the supremes have job security and do not care if people view them an anti "religion".

This will cost the Garcia's more time, energy & money but in the end - if they can stick it out - they will do more damage than anyone could hope for.

If they take their toys and go home I would not blame them.... but I am cheering them on in their fight if they wish to continue.

By the time it goes to the top or part way to the top the first judge is out of the line of fire and his name is forgotten... he will sleep well at night.

I could be wrong... I am not a lawyer or judge but this is the way I see it.
Hmmm..

You might be right...

Whittemore probably read it as a certain appeal case and gave the preferred opening judgement; upholding First Amendment rights

The Garcias say the amount they received isn't the issue so they must have some bucks. CoS will say they just want their fifteen minutes of fame...

But it appears to have been a quick but not hasty decision to send it up lines

Popcorn anyone?
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Nah.

Lenny Bruce is dead.

L. Ron Hubbard is dead.

The tech is dead.

The only "mopping" going on is loyal officers like yourself, still hiding in remote jungles who didn't get word yet that the war was lost and the imperial-imperious "Emperor" long since surrendered.

HELPFUL TIP: After the divine dianetic dictator dr. hubbard caved in and admitted that his tech didn't work, everyone else was supposed to pause for a brief moment, slap themselves in the forehead and exclaim: "Wow that was majorly fucked up, what wuz I thinking to join a stupid cult?!" Then, they typically took a day off to reflect and cringe, after which they could re-boot a new life without the incessant lies of L. Ron Hubbard circulating in their reactive brains and spilling out their mouth. So, for all you "STRAGGLERS" left behind in the jungle: "THE WAR IS OVER! THE WAR IS OVER!!" And at your earliest convenience, get yourself onto a new routing form that takes you far, far, far away from orbiting eternally around Hubbard's dark planet and its toxic gravity.
:drama2:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

Thanks for such a lovely demonstration of StragglerTech[sup]tm[/sup]

Unless I am mistaken, I believe it was originally developed in 1945, when Loyal Officers of the Japanese army were hiding out in the Philippine jungles, fighting WWII---and word came that Japan had surrendered. They refused to believe or accept that fact.

And they remained in those remote jungles, loyally continuing to fight for their Emperor, despite being informed for the next 40 plus years that Emperor H. (Hirohito) was not in fact a deity with supernatural powers & destiny.

The StragglerTech[sup]tm[/sup] is how those Loyal Officers dismissed each messenger bearing such "r-factors" with condescending snickers.

example:


MESSENGER
Colonel Fukumoto, we respectfully bring you a message from
our great Emperor H, who says "All is Lost" and you must surrender
because he realized his magisterial magic mojo doesn't work and
he wasn't so divinely destined, as he had mistakenly led us to believe.


FUKUMOTO
(scoffs with a smirk)
Ha! Such dramatization!

MESSENGER
I do not recognize or understand your strange
language and weird words. Speak in plain Japanese. . .


FUKUMOTO
あなたのトリックは私を欺くものではありません。 私のジャングルを今すぐ離れる
あなたはロートーンで、黒人はエンゲッタ・バスタード[sup]1[/sup]​




And so it is, Commander Birdsong, we once again respectfully inform you that Emperor H (Hubbard) surrendered in 1986 after succumbed to his own lies and "tech".



[sup]1[/sup] translation: "Your tricks don't fool me. Leave my jungle now you low toned, black-pr-ing entheta SP bastard"
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
It was such a lovely rant I honored it with a smilie...

Rather reminiscent of the admonitions the Captain of HMS Serapis hurled at the master of The Bonhomme Richard...
 
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Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Clay Pigeon filling in for Helluva Hoax

Who seems to have decamped but left his well earned colors behind...

Apparently came up short a line. Well we all know what that feels like don't we? It's not hard to turn your opponents strength against him and it is a common teaching of most masters. Commander Birdsong could hardly be more vulnerable as he so often and aptly quotes Dylan an endless source of Shoot-from-the-hip comebacks

"And there's something happening here and you don't know what it is...

Do you...

Mr. Jones?"

would be sequitur...
 
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