New member. Currently reading Dianetics...

[phenomanon]

I am often falsely jacketed as one of Elron's sycophants.

I am an auditor and I am grateful to the man for his work which has enabled me to do many exceptional and wondrous things for many people

And he is a figure of sufficient greatness that Nostradamus gave him two quatrains of prophecy...

Why be an Auditor when you can be God?

 

[JustSheila]

And he is a figure of sufficient greatness that Nostradamus gave him two quatrains of prophecy...

No, Nostradamus did not state anything like that.

(Edited: That's as far as I'm going, Emma, I am not getting sucked into this stuff again.. lol)

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Why be an Auditor when you can be God?

Actually I got stuck with being god once. Lousiest job I ever had

 

[JustSheila]

"Blind adoration", hardly. He was a randy old goat who couldn't keep his pecker in his pants but he was a genius who produced a respectable though flawed body of work.

I've known many friends who lied about their military service. I'm glad my buddies showed up. I got no complaints about the truth of Hubbard's military record. Beyond that the man's poetic liscence commercial grade was in good order and he was entirely good to go for producing fiction.

Il Salvatore Mundi is held to be Jesus of Nazareth at this desk.

Hubbard is not branded as a psychopath. Most of his "abusive conduct" was distinctly similar to my DI's in basic training nor is he considered to have destroyed tens of thousands of lives

And to answer your final question, I would dishonor myself as Hubbard's work has enabled me to do some very kind and wonderful things for many people

I don't even know where to begin here. I thought for a minute you were writing about L Ron Hubbard, but then you said he was a randy old goat who couldn't keep his pecker in his pants. So I'm sure you mean some OTHER Ron Hubbard. From reports, the one that started Scientology had a thingy that was limp for decades, probably due to personal drug and alcohol abuse (they found Vistaril needle marks on his butt). The last known time L Ron Hubbard was sexually active was when he got Mary Sue pregnant with Arthur in 1957 or 1958. El Ron was apparently impotent for nearly 30 years.

That's enough. The rest makes even less sense to me. I'll leave it to others to answer if it's worth their time.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

No, Nostradamus did not state anything like that.

(Edited: That's as far as I'm going, Emma, I am not getting sucked into this stuff again.. lol)

It would surely be subject to debate JS

And...

So far as I know, I'm the only one who has advanced the statement

Nor will I point to the quatrains. The scibots have no interest in the Comte Michel

But if someone wants to find Elron in Centuries it isn't hard to spot his lines. At least not for anyone who knows the alphabet...

 

[JustSheila]

It would surely be subject to debate JS

And...

So far as I know, I'm the only one who has advanced the statement

Nor will I point to the quatrains. The scibots have no interest in the Comte Michel

But if someone wants to find Elron in Centuries it isn't hard to spot his lines

Oh it's plenty debatable. Tens of millions of people fit the description. Heck, some even say President Trump was predicted by Nostradamus, so if you want to believe it, by golly, you go pick your favorite person and say Nostradamus predicted him. IDGAF. People believe what they want.

 

[Bill]

Hubbard is not branded as a psychopath. Most of his "abusive conduct" was distinctly similar to my DI's in basic training nor is he considered to have destroyed tens of thousands of lives

Not destroyed tens of thousands of lives? Let's see what you are ignoring:

• Creates one of the most effective traps to ensnare people into his cultic scheme to make millions.
• Makes explicit promises as to what his "tech" will accomplish: Release, Clear, Operating Thetan, homo novis, amazing powers and "solutions for every ill" -- and delivers NOTHING like that.
• Charges massive prices for his "levels"; explicitly trains his "registrars" to extract every dime from "parishioners" so that Scientologists go deeply in debt, Scientologists lose their homes, lose their retirement, lose their savings.
• Enforces disconnection so that families are destroyed, careers destroyed, lives destroyed.

And much, much more. Yes, this was specifically and explicitly done by Hubbard and at his direction.

But, oh no, none of that is bad to you. No, Hubbard was "mankind's best friend".

But you won't see it, you won't admit it, you won't allow those facts to enter your mind.

NO Birdy, Hubbard WAS EVIL.

 

[TomKat]

Excuse me. I should have said that it didn't seem at all cult-like. There were not, as you said, "lots of 'this is a cult' warning lights flashing on and off" as soon as you entered. Sure, it was a cult. But it wasn't obvious. Other orgs were probably different.

Other orgs were not different in 1975. Missions and orgs were laid-back in my experience, even Sea Org orgs. That's what drove Miscavige mad enough to cause the big schism of the mid-80s. He hated seeing all those squirrelly dilettantes being successful and making money. If there wasn't already a huge gulf between Scientology-at-large and the CMO, there'd have been no schism.

 

[Veda]

Other orgs were not different in 1975. Missions and orgs were laid-back in my experience, even Sea Org orgs. That's what drove Miscavige mad enough to cause the big schism of the mid-80s. He hated seeing all those squirrelly dilettantes being successful and making money. If there wasn't already a huge gulf between Scientology-at-large and the CMO, there'd have been no schism.

The CMO secretly followed Hubbard's orders. (Hubbard's paranoia, and cowardice, demanded that he be in hiding from the Feds, and others.)

Hubbard directed the looting of the Missions, which resulted in the subsequent schism.

Sea Org oversaw the Orgs, and the G.0. oversaw the Missions.

All were under pressure to "produce" and send people and money "up lines."

Going back to the sixties, the Flagship despised the land based Sea Org, and all Sea Org despised the Orgs, and the Orgs despised the Missions.

Orgs - and many Missions - practiced Hard (crush) Sell, heavy "Ethics," and abusive "knowledge Reports," etc.

There were always clueless people (mostly public) who had no idea these things were occurring.

 

[Alex P. Keaton]

Where I come from, there was ample evidence (NOTE: FOR ME) that this was a cult. I was born in 1966 (graduated High School in 1984). When someone wants you to stare at someone for hours, or there is a suggestion that trance-like states are involved, well, what's going to come into your mind while you are "away"? What post-hypnotic suggestions will someone make? Will you become possessed by demons? In the "Satanic Panic" of the early 1980s, I perceived this to be a real possibility (I also tried to play a cassette tape backwards in hopes of hearing Satanic messages in some pop/rock music; I didn't hear any).

Also, the late Dr. Walter Martin ("Kingdom of the Cults") suggests that one aspect of a cult is that cults have a different belief about who Jesus is and what he did. Jesus is not an R6 implant, shown to the thetans in those movie theaters. SCN automatically meets the definition of a cult there.

EDIT: I am still satisfied with the Protestant beliefs I grew up with. And Scientology remains as culty as ever, but in the Internet age, we just have more evidence.

 

[George Layton]

Your blind adoration of Hubbard reeks of desperation. His well documented abuse is, to you, "not abuse". His well documented and pervasive lying is, to you, "not important". His total failure to produce the promised, miraculous results is, to you, "miraculous results". This psychopath who has destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of people is, to you, a genius, who has "saved the world".

Anything negative about Hubbard must be ignored or, if you can't ignore it, discounted. Anything remotely positive, including "Nostradamus predictions" , are desperately embraced by you.

No, Birdy, your adoration of Hubbard is very much about desperation.

What would happen if you admitted his lies, his failures, his abuses, his psychopathy? What would happen to you?

One thing you have to hand to ole hubbard though, his vanity enhancement system was peerless!

 

[George Layton]

"Blind adoration", hardly. He was a randy old goat who couldn't keep his pecker in his pants but he was a genius who produced a respectable though flawed body of work.

I've known many friends who lied about their military service. I'm glad my buddies showed up. I got no complaints about the truth of Hubbard's military record. Beyond that the man's poetic liscence commercial grade was in good order and he was entirely good to go for producing fiction.

Il Salvatore Mundi is held to be Jesus of Nazareth at this desk.

Hubbard is not branded as a psychopath. Most of his "abusive conduct" was distinctly similar to my DI's in basic training nor is he considered to have destroyed tens of thousands of lives

And to answer your final question, I would dishonor myself as Hubbard's work has enabled me to do some very kind and wonderful things for many people

How many children did you have in your basic training?

 

[George Layton]

Actually I got stuck with being god once. Lousiest job I ever had

Had or did?

 

[screamer2]

I don't even know where to begin here. I thought for a minute you were writing about L Ron Hubbard, but then you said he was a randy old goat who couldn't keep his pecker in his pants. So I'm sure you mean some OTHER Ron Hubbard. From reports, the one that started Scientology had a thingy that was limp for decades, probably due to personal drug and alcohol abuse (they found Vistaril needle marks on his butt). The last known time L Ron Hubbard was sexually active was when he got Mary Sue pregnant with Arthur in 1957 or 1958. El Ron was apparently impotent for nearly 30 years.

That's enough. The rest makes even less sense to me. I'll leave it to others to answer if it's worth their time.

I should point out that LRH was however an expert masturbater.
According to his confessions:

I have a very bad masturbatory history. I was taught when I was 11 and, despite guilt, fear of insanity, etc. etc. I persisted.

 

[bonaqua]

......

 

[bonaqua]

My best advice is don't bother educating yourself on the subject at all!! It's all one big juicy SCAM.

As you're on this site, and possibly others, why don't you spend time educating yourself with the various horror stories that people have written? About how the subject screws up peoples' lives..... About how it makes families disconnect....... About how it fleeces people of EVERYTHING they own and leaves them with HUGE debts...........

If you feel that the subject might be of benefit to you, (and I'm not denying that some people have had good results from it, so good luck to them), then I suggest you go to an independent scientology group. They apparently offer courses and services at a fraction of the cost of the "church".

Whatever you do, DO NOT contact a $cientology organisation. It'll be the biggest mistake of your life. Believe me...............

True. It may be inexpensive at the entry level, but quickly becomes more so. Some have spent 100's of thousands, even millions, on scn, with little or nothing to show for it.

You should be scared to visit the scn shop in your city, or any other. Though it's unlikely this would happen to you on an initial visit, scngsts have been known to physically detain people trying to leave the premises. I did this myself on two occasions (once to a public student). They believe it's your reactive mind, your engrams, making you want to leave.

Scientology seeks to exploit the "abreactive" process. (Unearthing previously buried trauma with subsequent relief.)

A suffering soul is helped by a cult leader and becomes his slave.​

The term engram predates Dianetics. Hubbard P-T.-Barnumized it and cultified it.

In his 1923 book, 'The Mneme', Richard Semon used the term engram, which he considered to be a "stimulus impression" that could be reactivated by the recurrence of "the energetic conditions that ruled at the generation of the engram."

The author of Science and Sanity, Alfred Korzybski. used the term "hurts," and wrote in 1935:

"...We begin to check this... process of piling up 'hurts' on 'hurts'... new 'hurts', in practice, are usually related or similar to the old ones; they would revive the older 'hurts'. Accordingly, he [the person undergoing abreaction would] not only 'live through' the older experiences but at once revive them, and after re-evaluation, eliminate the harmful effects."

The chapter 'Origins of Dianetics' in the book 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman? contains more info.

The information you have is mostly Dianetics circa 1950, with prenatals, sperm dreams, Attempted Abortion engrams, etc.

There no doubt are such things as "hurts" and such things as traumatic experiences. Hubbard extrapolated from this and while he, IMO, did have some innovative moments, he also had a self-serving hidden agenda, an agenda that affected Dianetics and Scientology since their earliest beginnings.

If you're considering entering the wonderful wacky world of Scientology, strongly recommend first reading this short article: Ex Scientologist - The Scientological Onion

During my 18 years as a trained member of Scientology, I spent about 1 year selling over 5,000 Dianetics books to people curious about the mind. I convinced them that the book would help them, and help them to help and understand others. But I was wrong. I later came to see that the book is filled with inaccurate and often dangerous information that can mess up a person’s mind. I regret deeply that I sold false promises.

Your mind is a precious thing to protect. Nothing in that book will provide you with the things you desire from it. Hubbard wants you to believe but the evidence shows that nothing but mental manipulation occurs, and one is unaware while it is occurring.

There are many wise and experienced former members here who can help guide you in the direction of good reading material and therapies that do help.

What is it you seek?

Stay away from any "org" and any "Scientologist" whether they are "Independents" or officially sanctioned members.

These people are well oiled and greased and have been professionally groomed to set deep hooks and squeeze every last bit of equity from a mark. Their entire career, status, marriage and quality of life rises or sinks depending on how much money they extract from "raw" public.

Do NOT go there or even open dialogue with these people until you are well-versed. It is extremely dangerous as you have no idea how you are perceived behind closed doors...very unhealthy.

OK, that being said go ahead and read Dianetics and Science of Survival and notice how "scientifically" these are laid out. Then read History of Man and Have You Lived Before and Fundamentals of Thought notice how whacky these are.

Scientology is NOT Dianetics...Scientology is the whacky "doll body" stuff.

You must absolutely read Veda's suggested material. That is what Scientology is.

Also, L. Ron Hubbard Junior did an interview in 1983 through Penthouse magazine. Read this. As far out and crazy as it is I've come to discover that every outlandish claim that I've been able to verify was true as he presented it. I haven't been able to verify all of it but what I've been able to has been truthfully told by this guy in this interview.

I suggest reading ALL of the Dianetics books as well as the Scientology books as they'll all be available at the library.

Then come back here and talk about the claims and what you've read with the people that were there as staff and public...many knew Hubbard.

A good comparison would be to read Scientology Ethics and pay attention to any and all morality nuances that Hubbard writes about in Dianetics and Science of Survival and then come here and talk with Phenomena who knew Hubbard.

For instance, read what Hubbard writes about abortions and children and then come here to see what happens in his "church" regarding abortions and children.

Two things:

#1. Actions speak louder than words...this is where "practice what you preach" stems from. What are the actions of Hubbard's church vs the words? You'll discover that here.

#2. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. See how Hubbard wrangled and mangles that with "open mindedness" and other criticisms. If one has nothing to hide the goods are out in the open for all to see. There should be tests for "stably exterior with full perception" and there are none. If it actually worked...if it actually happens or occurs Scientology would be plastering that proof everywhere. Instead, there is none. There are no actions...merely words.

Finally, pay attention to what L. Ron Jr says about Scientology not being spiritual but actually addressing the ego.

A great exercise for me was a 3 book series from a psychiatrist named David Hawkins. The books are based on applied kinesiology and the method as described in the books doesn't work. I know because I attempted it multiple times...it's all wooo. However, the benefit I got from them was the description of the ego and the comparison between spiritual and ego. Reading these and then looking at Scientology's presentation of Hubbard and Miscavige and events and statuses and the focus on money, image and celebrities...it's ALL ego.

Those books are the 1st 3 in the Power vs Force series.

All of these books, both Scientology and Hawkins, probably exist as free pdfs, in the library or real cheap on eBay or Amazon.

Look up and define "spiritual materialism". That's what Scientology is.

It suckerpunches by playing into your ego greed and lust, convincing you that you're brilliant, moral and good and immensely powerful and then it sucks you dry and at the end Scientology acts like the victim and blames you.

Vicious, evil cult that is designed to suck every dime out of you for Hubbard's greed. When they say "Scientology works"...well...it does work exactly as intended as it will leave you as a penniless husk just they way it is designed to.

There are no stably exterior OTs running around at Cause over Matter, Energy, Space and Time...reading thoughts and telekinesis. If there were they'd all be Loto winners or kicked out of Vegas.

Finally, if Scientology actually worked this website wouldn't be here, Leah Remini's show wouldn't be on the air (the Aftermath), the ever growing list of horror story books wouldn't exist and the world would be getting saner with less crime and that would be directly tied to wherever Scientology operated.

Instead, it's just the reverse. You must see the outcome...the results...the actions and not pay attention to what Hubbard writes and claims...those are the words and the words and claims aren't backed up with any evidence and instead of creating a world devoid of insanity, war and crime Scientology creates insanity by daily commiting crimes and being at and declaring war on anything, anyone, everything and everyone. The atmosphere on staff at a Scientology "church" is a hectic clime of dire emergencies and super human sacrifice "for the effort" or it swings over to a complete empty period like spending a day in a grave yard...it's an insane asylum, an active war zone and a crime in progress all rolled into one.

Thanks for all the replies. I'm sorry if I mislead you because it has never been my intention to spend any money on scientology. That's why I said I won't visit the scientologty shop in my city. You don't have to worry about me signing up for anything expensive or hooking up with scientologist. I have a read a few of the horror stories.

So yeah, I'm searching for something....After watching ex-scientologists on youtube I found that most of them said auditing and dianetics helped them. That it changed their lives for the better and that what hurt them was the scientology organisation.




@guanoloco and @AnonyMary

• I have alot of money but I hate my job and I don't get the respect I deserve.
• I can't stop binge drinking (alone). Not every day but whenever I get the chance.
• My wife has had a life of trauma and subsequent mental problems. Psychology, therapy and psychiatry has NOT helped her.

• What would you suggest?

edit: sorry! wanted to quote more people but I couldn't figure out the multi-quote thing

 

[JustSheila]

Deleted - wrong quote, sorry.

 

[JustSheila]

I should point out that LRH was however an expert masturbater.
According to his confessions:

EEK! YICK!
(Clay Pigeon stated with pride that he used Hubbard's original bedroom as an auditing room. )

 

[JustSheila]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm sorry if I mislead you because it has never been my intention to spend any money on scientology. That's why I said I won't visit the scientologty shop in my city. You don't have to worry about me signing up for anything expensive or hooking up with scientologist. I have a read a few of the horror stories.

So yeah, I'm searching for something....After watching ex-scientologists on youtube I found that most of them said auditing and dianetics helped them. That it changed their lives for the better and that what hurt them was the scientology organisation.




@guanoloco and @AnonyMary

• I have alot of money but I hate my job and I don't get the respect I deserve.
• I can't stop binge drinking (alone). Not every day but whenever I get the chance.
• My wife has had a life of trauma and subsequent mental problems. Psychology, therapy and psychiatry has NOT helped her.

• What would you suggest?
  
  Get a job
  Save money
  See the world
  Go to college
  Start a family
  Love others well and show it.
  
  

 

[screamer2]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm sorry if I mislead you because it has never been my intention to spend any money on scientology. That's why I said I won't visit the scientologty shop in my city. You don't have to worry about me signing up for anything expensive or hooking up with scientologist. I have a read a few of the horror stories.

So yeah, I'm searching for something....After watching ex-scientologists on youtube I found that most of them said auditing and dianetics helped them. That it changed their lives for the better and that what hurt them was the scientology organisation.




@guanoloco and @AnonyMary

• I have alot of money but I hate my job and I don't get the respect I deserve.
• I can't stop binge drinking (alone). Not every day but whenever I get the chance.
• My wife has had a life of trauma and subsequent mental problems. Psychology, therapy and psychiatry has NOT helped her.

• What would you suggest?

edit: sorry! wanted to quote more people but I couldn't figure out the multi-quote thing

Live. Love. Gain experience. Work. Do things. Make friends. Carry out your responsibilities.*

If you need a few spiritual underpinnings, find a competent, credentialed Sanskrit scholar to show you the Bhagavad Gita but avoid gurus at all cost.

*And that's basically the same advice that Krishna gave to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita.