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Clearing the USA

More scientology bubble delusion. Hey guys, just a couple of things for you to consider. All the orgs in the LA area are ideal (and there are more of them than anywhere on earth) — how are you doing clearing the LA area? If you made a total of 100 Clears in the last year […]

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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
The actual problem is not that orgs are not producing enough Clears and OTs. It's that they are not producing ANY, per the original definition.

If orgs were producing people with a greatly increased level of ability, and this increased ability was being demonstrated in the real world in terms of people being vastly more successful in running businesses, writing best-selling books, winning legal cases, doing spectacularly in the stock market --- there would be people lined up at the doors with suitcases full of cash.

But, they are not producing real results.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
If orgs were producing people with a greatly increased level of ability, and this increased ability was being demonstrated in the real world in terms of people being vastly more successful in running businesses, writing best-selling books, winning legal cases, doing spectacularly in the stock market --- there would be people lined up at the doors with suitcases full of cash.
^^^^^^ Exactly!

And they would achieve all that on simple word-of-mouth advertising. No Super Bowl commercials needed.

If Hubbard just got each member (including himself) to bring in an average of one additional member per year, everyone on the planet would be a Scientologist by 1983. Here's how it would work:

1950 - 1 Scientologist (LRH)
1951 - 2
1952 - 4
1953 - 8
1954 - 16
1955 - 32
1956 - 64
1957 - 128
1958 - 256
1959 - 512
1960 - 1024
1961 - 2048
1962 - 4096
1963 - 8192
1964- 16,384
1965 - 32,768
1966 - 65,536
1967 - 131,072
1968 262,144
1969 524,288
1970 1,048,576
1971 2,097,052
1972 4,194,104
1973 8,388,208
1974 16,776,416
1975 33,552,832
1976 65,105,664

1977 130,211,328
1978 260,422,656
1979 520,845,312

1980 1,041,690,624
1981 2,042,381,248
1982 4,084,762,496
1983 8,169,524,992

Note, the world population back in '83 was only about 4.7 billion, so this calculation would take into consideration the ones who died since 1950.

Certainly it IS fair to expect each member to bring in an average of one additional member per year IF we're talking about a discovery more significant than the invention of the wheel, which was what was asserted in Dianetics, Book I:
https://tonyortega.org/wp-content/c...ianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/index.html

From 1983 onwards everyone would just need to co-audit each other up to Clear, and voila, we have a Cleared planet!

Only problem being is that not a SINGLE Clear has been created as of yet with the abilities promised by Hubbard.

More people wanted a Pet Rock than what Hubbard was selling:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
^^^^^^ Exactly!

And they would achieve all that on simple word-of-mouth advertising. No Super Bowl commercials needed.

If Hubbard just got each member (including himself) to bring in an average of one additional member per year, everyone on the planet would be a Scientologist by 1983. Here's how it would work:

1950 - 1 Scientologist (LRH)
1951 - 2
1952 - 4
1953 - 8
1954 - 16
1955 - 32
1956 - 64
1957 - 128
1958 - 256
1959 - 512
1960 - 1024
1961 - 2048
1962 - 4096
1963 - 8192
1964- 16,384
1965 - 32,768
1966 - 65,536
1967 - 131,072
1968 262,144
1969 524,288
1970 1,048,576
1971 2,097,052
1972 4,194,104
1973 8,388,208
1974 16,776,416
1975 33,552,832
1976 65,105,664

1977 130,211,328
1978 260,422,656
1979 520,845,312

1980 1,041,690,624
1981 2,042,381,248
1982 4,084,762,496
1983 8,169,524,992

Note, the world population back in '83 was only about 4.7 billion, so this calculation would take into consideration the ones who died since 1950.

Certainly it IS fair to expect each member to bring in an average of one additional member per year IF we're talking about a discovery more significant than the invention of the wheel, which was what was asserted in Dianetics, Book I:
https://tonyortega.org/wp-content/c...ianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/index.html

From 1983 onwards everyone would just need to co-audit each other up to Clear, and voila, we have a Cleared planet!

Only problem being is that not a SINGLE Clear has been created as of yet with the abilities promised by Hubbard.

More people wanted a Pet Rock than what Hubbard was selling:


Brilliant. Love that post!

Doesn't seem like it would be much of a challenge for an advanced, supernaturally powered HOMO NOVUS to disseminate to only one (1) person every year. That could rather easily be done as follows:

364 days of drilling on the Dissemination Formula, followed by 1 day of demonstrating their miraculous abilities to 1 person, who would be more than excited to begin their spiritual journey to the totally healthy & happy state of Clear.

I do, however, have one big problem with your post. I think you are "altering to worsen" what Scientology's Founder actually stated. You said:

"Certainly it IS fair to expect each member to bring in an average of one additional member per year IF we're talking about a discovery more significant than the invention of the wheel, which was what was asserted in Dianetics, Book I..."

Dianetics was in fact a discovery more significant than the invention the wheel. However Dr. Hubbard was quite obviously referring to the invention of the Self-Analysis wheel.


latest

.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
More people wanted a Pet Rock than what Hubbard was selling:

I think Scientologists are not going to agree with that. In fact, I just noticed an OT VIII that posted this debunk of what you claimed:

Originally Posted by Billy Blowdown
What you are claiming about beings wanting a Pet Rock more than the Scientology is obviously ridiculous! First of all, a "Pet Rock" is just a made up marketing fantasy to get people's money, whereas "The Bridge To Total Freedom" is a real thing. Secondly, Scientology is far more expansive than a "Pet Rock" because Scientology operates on all 8 Dynamics not just the 5th.

ML,
Billy Blowdown - OT VIII
(currently on retread of objectives, nearing PT).
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I think Scientologists are not going to agree with that. In fact, I just noticed an OT VIII that posted this debunk of what you claimed:
I always appreciate hearing what Billy thinks about things, but in this case I suspect Billy may have a crashing misunderstood word.

Please have him star rate the references from Sheldrake which he can find in the thread 'Is the Sun conscious?'

Once he realizes that rocks are made out of the same building blocks as the sun his views on this whole matter may change. :cool:
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't really understand all of this, but ...

It seems super-duper powers ARE available if you go up high enough on the bridge. But it's like the "smart bombs" on some of the old '80's video games: pressing the "smart bomb" button blows up all your enemies at once, but you can only do it once per level. If you invoke omniscient powers too often, or at the wrong times, or for the wrong reasons, you lose them. This would be the basis for those who WERE able to do magical things, but not be able to repeat them on demand.


Disclaimer: I have NEVER been able to do any such things.

Helena
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I don't really understand all of this, but ...

It seems super-duper powers ARE available if you go up high enough on the bridge. But it's like the "smart bombs" on some of the old '80's video games: pressing the "smart bomb" button blows up all your enemies at once, but you can only do it once per level. If you invoke omniscient powers too often, or at the wrong times, or for the wrong reasons, you lose them. This would be the basis for those who WERE able to do magical things, but not be able to repeat them on demand.

Disclaimer: I have NEVER been able to do any such things.

Helena
Saying 'It seems super-duper powers ...' Where are you getting this information from Helena? In all the years I spent in scientology I never encountered one individual, no matter what 'OT' level they were at, able to do anything remotely 'super-duper', and I'm willing to bet that goes for every other member or reader of this message board.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Saying 'It seems super-duper powers ...' Where are you getting this information from Helena? In all the years I spent in scientology I never encountered one individual, no matter what 'OT' level they were at, able to do anything remotely 'super-duper', and I'm willing to bet that goes for every other member or reader of this message board.
I've never encountered a single individual involved in Scientology, including at Flag, who seemed extraordinary in any way as compared to non-scientologists.

For sure I encountered some great people during my ten years in I came to admire, but just as many or more during the ten years after I left.

The only time I thought I encountered someone demonstrating OT ability when in was when watching Michael Silverman do card tricks. :D

He was a very good magician, but is long out of the cult and has acknowledged no OT powers were used during his magic.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I've never encountered a single individual involved in Scientology, including at Flag, who seemed extraordinary in any way as compared to non-scientologists.

Of course you haven't, and why would you. All the claims made by scientology are bogus.
The only time I thought I encountered someone demonstrating OT ability when in was when watching Michael Silverman do card tricks.

Yes, tricks being the operative word.
He was a very good magician, but is long out of the cult and has acknowledged no OT powers were used during his magic.
Hardly surprising since he had none.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't really understand all of this, but ...

It seems super-duper powers ARE available if you go up high enough on the bridge. But it's like the "smart bombs" on some of the old '80's video games: pressing the "smart bomb" button blows up all your enemies at once, but you can only do it once per level. If you invoke omniscient powers too often, or at the wrong times, or for the wrong reasons, you lose them. This would be the basis for those who WERE able to do magical things, but not be able to repeat them on demand.

Disclaimer: I have NEVER been able to do any such things.


Helena
I like this post Helena because it is illustrative of how Scientologists rationalize not demonstrating or not seeing Scientologists demonstrate OT abilities in a way that can be objectively verified.

The thinking goes, if OT powers are used to "prove" Scientology then that is an unethical application because the value and truth of Scientology is inherent and needs no proving and because it is out-ethics anything that is out-ethics causes the person to withhold their own abilities so they don't harm others. Anything that validates doubts about Scientology by providing proof is out-ethics. This thinking can be expanded to anything that doesn't use OT powers for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics is out-ethics and likewise can cause a deterioration of OT abilities. Then since pretty much the only thing that is truly beneficial for the greatest number of dynamics is only things that are good for Scientology then any use of OT powers that isn't for the betterment of Scientology is out-ethics.

I don't recall if I've actually seen a reference on this but it is how I remember the mindset.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I like this post Helena because it is illustrative of how Scientologists rationalize not demonstrating or not seeing Scientologists demonstrate OT abilities in a way that can be objectively verified.

The thinking goes, if OT powers are used to "prove" Scientology then that is an unethical application because the value and truth of Scientology is inherent and needs no proving and because it is out-ethics anything that is out-ethics causes the person to withhold their own abilities so they don't harm others. Anything that validates doubts about Scientology by providing proof is out-ethics. This thinking can be expanded to anything that doesn't use OT powers for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics is out-ethics and likewise can cause a deterioration of OT abilities. Then since pretty much the only thing that is truly beneficial for the greatest number of dynamics is only things that are good for Scientology then any use of OT powers that isn't for the betterment of Scientology is out-ethics.

I don't recall if I've actually seen a reference on this but it is how I remember the mindset.
The only mindset I remember in respect of this issue was - "We don't do any funky shit with our OT abilities because it would freak the wogs out!"
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Saying 'It seems super-duper powers ...' Where are you getting this information from Helena? In all the years I spent in scientology I never encountered one individual, no matter what 'OT' level they were at, able to do anything remotely 'super-duper', and I'm willing to bet that goes for every other member or reader of this message board.

CULT SPEAK DICTIONARY:
def.
seems - verb: 1. give the impression or sensation of being something or having a particular quality. 2. knowingness based on certainty supported by awareness of awareness of verifiable factual evidence within one's own or the theta universe.​
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I've never encountered a single individual involved in Scientology, including at Flag, who seemed extraordinary in any way as compared to non-scientologists.

For sure I encountered some great people during my ten years in I came to admire, but just as many or more during the ten years after I left.

The only time I thought I encountered someone demonstrating OT ability when in was when watching Michael Silverman do card tricks. :D

He was a very good magician, but is long out of the cult and has acknowledged no OT powers were used during his magic.
Wait.

While in Scientology did Silverman ever perform card tricks for Scientologists who thought it was an OT feat? LOL

I am praying the answer is yes (because life gets too serious without laughter).
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Wait.

While in Scientology did Silverman ever perform card tricks for Scientologists who thought it was an OT feat? LOL

I am praying the answer is yes (because life gets too serious without laughter).
Yes, absolutely! Michael was a tremendous magician and made true believers out of others. Many thought it was really magic, particularly the trick where he has a card show up on the OTHER side of the window! :ohmy:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Yes, absolutely! Michael was a tremendous magician and made true believers out of others. Many thought it was really magic, particularly the trick where he has a card show up on the OTHER side of the window! :ohmy:
Please tell us as many stories as possible about that.

Seriously.

You have no idea how hilarious that entire concept is to me. I never heard this before. Never saw Michael doing any magic tricks.

I thought someone was joking when they once said that it had something to do with OT powers.

Are you seriously telling me that Scientologists seriously thought his magic tricks were OT miracles?

I am having so much trouble believing that ever happened even one time.

Please tell more.

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Wait.

While in Scientology did Silverman ever perform card tricks for Scientologists who thought it was an OT feat? LOL

I am praying the answer is yes (because life gets too serious without laughter).
Consider your prayers answered. :D

On Mike Rinder's blog a year ago, Michael Silverman wrote:

"I was an accomplished magician already and entertained the staff with tricks which they regarded as OT phenomenon being displayed. I never corrected their viewpoint and deliberately declined to answer any questions. (I do not lie and so by not answering any questions about my magic, I was retaining my honesty)."
Full Post: https://www.mikerindersblog.org/michael-silverman/
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Consider your prayers answered. :D

On Mike Rinder's blog a year ago, Michael Silverman wrote:

"I was an accomplished magician already and entertained the staff with tricks which they regarded as OT phenomenon being displayed. I never corrected their viewpoint and deliberately declined to answer any questions. (I do not lie and so by not answering any questions about my magic, I was retaining my honesty)."
Full Post: https://www.mikerindersblog.org/michael-silverman/


"Retaining my honesty"???

Really?

Seriously? LOL


PRE-CLEAR
OMG! You just made my MEST card disappear and then you
mocked up the same MEST card in a different MEST location!!!!
OMG! OMG! OMG! What OT level are you anyways?!


MIKE THE MAGICIAN
Well, I just attested to OT I.


PRE-CLEAR
Holy Hell, I can't wait get on OT I and
and get my OT powers back!


MIKE THE MAGICIAN
Excellent! I'd like to select you as your
FSM to do all your OT levels.


PRE-CLEAR
Wow, you would do that for me?! Can you
guarantee that when I do OT I, I will
be able to as-is and mock up
MEST just like you?


MIKE THE MAGICIAN
LRH states that a being can do anything!


PRECLEAR
Wow! Before I give you my charge card, are
you sure this wasn't some sort of magic trick?


MIKE THE MAGICIAN
(keeping his TR-O in, enigmatically grinning, saying/doing nothing)

PRECLEAR
OMG, wow! That is totally fucking amazing!!!
Here's my master card.


.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
.


. . . and earlier that same day, Mike The Magician was on the CODE OF HONOR COURSE and passed a clay demo of:

How You Can Keep Your Integrity In
And Retain Your Honesty

(as a being, as a Scientologist and in your personal life, on this planet)



ps: I had my doubts about whether MIKE THE OT MAGICIAN actually honestly passed that clay demo. But, then I noticed that the attest form contained the phrase "on this planet", which is quite serious---and I doubt any ethical Scientologist would falsely attest to something containing so much gravitas.
 
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