ATTN: Lurkers... "Critical Thinking"

[Clay Pigeon]

Welcome t what promises to be an exceptionally...

HOT!!!

and lively thread.


"Critical Thinking"


An exceptionally valuable and rare capacity of the intellect utterly despised and degraded by the antiscilons of this board who make of it a "buzz" phrase and claim it the sole possession of those who think it can only serve those who view Hubbard as evil and his work as nothing but a scam.

At this desk, critical thinking has been applied from the first to take the materials to the threshing floor for separating our Plainsman's wheat from his chaff...

 

[EZ Linus]

First of all, notice my new avatar. It's because I love you all.

That being said, I don't think anyone is telling you your belief in past lives and auditing is your lack in critical thinking, or that Hubbard was evil; you may have already had the belief in a spirit-power/reincarnation type thing. And Hubbard's intentions (whether he had evil intentions or not for sure)? That's essentially a guessing game.

It's about scientific evidence. Show evidence that anyone has lived before or that one spirit is more powerful than another. For me, critical thinking would require tangible, scientific evidence. That's what would count as objective analysis in order to evaluate judgment.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

First of all, notice my new avatar. It's because I love you all.

That being said, I don't think anyone is telling you your belief in past lives and auditing is your lack in critical thinking, or that Hubbard was evil; you may have already had the belief in a spirit-power/reincarnation type thing. And Hubbard's intentions (whether he had evil intentions or not for sure)? That's essentially a guessing game.

It's about scientific evidence. Show evidence that anyone has lived before or that one spirit is more powerful than another. For me, critical thinking would require tangible, scientific evidence. That's what would count as objective analysis in order to evaluate judgment.

Why thank you very much for a mild and respectful opening riposte EZL.

I have never professed a belief in past lives nor have I ever scorned the idea

And...

True scientific proof of past lives is not possible. No matter how well I could identify my former ast life as a reporter and foreign correspondent for a major New York paper, graduate of a New England college it would not prove that it was I who lived that life. In fact all of us who have significant and profound spiritual experiences are in awe of how these consistently elude either scientific or forensic proof

 

[Bill]

An exceptionally valuable and rare capacity of the intellect utterly despised and degraded by the antiscilons of this board who make of it a "buzz" phrase and claim it the sole possession of those who think it can only serve those who view Hubbard as evil and his work as nothing but a scam.

At this desk, critical thinking has been applied from the first to take the materials to the threshing floor for separating our Plainsman's wheat from his chaff...

You have defined "critical thinking" as a thing you possess and something lacking in all who disagree with you. Beyond that, you have not defined critical thinking at all.

Given your baseline definition for "critical thinking", you win.

 

[EZ Linus]

Why thank you very much for a mild and respectful opening riposte EZL.

I have never professed a belief in past lives nor have I ever scorned the idea

And...

True scientific proof of past lives is not possible. No matter how well I could identify my former ast life as a reporter and foreign correspondent for a major New York paper, graduate of a New England college it would not prove that it was I who lived that life. In fact all of us who have significant and profound spiritual experiences are in awe of how these consistently elude either scientific or forensic proof

Pardon me, but your denial of not professing a belief in the aforementioned past life/spiritual travels shows evidence to the contrary. Here you claim you believe it was you that lived a life as a reporter, and that you can describe it in great detail. You say it's perplexing to you that scientists can not present proof of these things despite how many people can explain them with the same detail.

I can describe in great detail a dream I had, or a book I read. Does this mean it is proof? Scientists should go the extra mile for my kind and prove that these memories are significant or are real?

Past life experiences have been documented a ton, yes. Many people feel they have experienced them. It happens in psychotherapy too. Talking about them may even offer some relief in some instances, but there is no proof that those incidents happened in reality. Does there need to be proof for those that are upset by the ones pointing out that it's not proven? Is it a matter of being right? What is the purpose of knowing past lives are true? If you believe it, and you can't differentiate between belief and science, what does this thread matter?

EDITED: All of the above to read a bit better, plus I want to say, I don't mean to strip people from their beliefs. I mean, I kind of do, but you opened the thread. I used to believe, or "know" this stuff was True. I didn't snap out of it overnight. It was a long path of, not my critical thinking returning to me--because I really never had it, or a healthy outlook to begin with; it took a lot of reading. Lots of scientific abstracts, lots of study of historical science and people that wanted to prove this stuff way before L. Ron Hubbard was even born. One has to gather miles of data before making a decision. I'd say 10 years I read. I've been out for 19. I never wanted to think he was wrong, about anything. I wanted him to be right about something. Scientology was everything to me. I wish I could describe all that to you in enough detail. I don't knock Hubbard for no reason. I have proof.

 

[lotus]

I like the critical thinking about the critical thinkingness of Birdie who critically thinks he has a critical thinking while he is mostly critical of critical thinkers and their critical thinkingness...about the guru and the alleged past lives...

Does that make sens ????

Past lives are not a fact..they are alledgely asserted by people who either have had somewhat experiences they attribute to past live or they carry a belief of it; To a critical thinker..it remains in the field of beliefs...and scientifically unproven.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I like the critical thinking about the critical thinkingness of Birdie who critically thinks he has a critical thinking while he is mostly critical of critical thinkers and their critical thinkingness...about the guru and the alleged past lives...

Does that make sens ????

Past lives are not a fact..they are alledgely asserted by people who either have had somewhat experiences they attribute to past live or they carry a belief of it; To a critical thinker..it remains in the field of beliefs...and scientifically unproven.

I think your critical thinking critique has reached critical mass.

 

[PirateAndBum]

What am I to think of your metaphors?

How about you show your work?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

What am I to think of your metaphors?

How about you show your work?

You mean show your OT miracles?

Well, i know the question wasn't directed at me but i would like to share a big win i had recently. . .

I was driving on the freeway and picked up some enturbulation in my space. I could not locate anything in my car that it could be coming from. I was alone and the radio was off. So i began to check my mirrors to peruse and pervade the space surrounding my car, gradiently expanding my sphere of awareness until i was big enough (as a being) to perceive all five lanes of traffic.

But still, I could not spot the source of the enturbulation.

So, I broadened my range of responsibility and was able to take in the entire freeway going in both directions. TEN FRICKIN' LANES !!! But still nothing, i felt the entheta coming in but could not spot its source.

I pulled over to the side (emergency lane) and got out and checked if perhaps one of my tires was low on air. Nope. Not the source of entheta.

After driving another 15 minutes I was going pretty PTS trying to spot where it was coming from. Just then something drew my attention to the sky. I started to feel my TA blowing down. I must be getting close to spotting it I excitedly thought!

I kept perceiving and using my knowingness. . .

Then I perceived that a 747 commercial airline had been hijacked and was going to be crashed into the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, intending to kill the 257,000 seated fans in one nightmarish fireball. Terrorists!

I began to r-factor the being telepathically to not do it, that it was out-ethics. But they ignored me so I had to increase the gradient.

Then I began to scream at them tone 40 that they will lose their eternity if they commit an over of that magnitude. I hadn't realized that my window was down so neighboring motorists kind of stared at me as if I was crazy. I rapidly closed my window and continued screaming commands.

Still, the terrorists just ignored me.

So, I postulated that the terrorists would come to their senses and realize that there was something better than Jihadi Suicide Missions that murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children. Suddenly i got back a theta com from the lead terrorist who asked: "What do you mean something better?"

I gave him a telepathic introductory lecture about the ARC triangle and how he should get in two-way com with those 257,000 people if he wanted them to join his religion. I even telepathically send him the image of the cover of "BIG LEAGUE CLOSING TECHNIQUES" and told him it had tech that would really help him get his BIM stat into power (Bodies in the Mosque).

He suddenly changed his mind and gave control of the plane back to the captain and took his assigned seat.

When I got home later that night I watched the late news and there were no terrorist attacks or crashed planes at the Indianapolis Racetrack.

I had used the tech to avert the greatest terrorist attack in American history.

I smiled to myself, knowing that the tech had once again worked.

 

[lotus]

One thing that amazed me when I was a scientologist was when people spoke atout their past live.

I never ever encountered a single one who said
He\she was for exemple just a normal being doing a normal job like a carpenter, a mother talking care of family...

Nop...they all were the most proeminent famous specimens of human history...Even a few were LRH...

For exemple: Mozart, Napoléon, Beethoven, Shakespeare, or the wealthiest prince of a certain territory...

No need to comment...ain't we???

This tes leaded me to discard those $sientology\dianetics fabulations....

Although l remain totally open to "serious" work and investigations submitted To our critical thinking...about this hypothesis....

​

Isn't it fascinating, in regard to all money left in $sientology donations accounts that we never hear of one coming black to claim ils status and and go back on services ???? Or either a refound????

 

[JustSheila]

One thing that amazed me when I was a scientologist was when people spoke atout their past live.

I never ever encountered a single one who said
He\she was for exemple just a normal being doing a normal job like a carpenter, a mother talking care of family...

Nop...they all were the most proeminent famous specimens of human history...Even a few were LRH...

For exemple: Mozart, Napoléon, Beethoven, Shakespeare, or the wealthiest prince of a certain territory...

No need to comment...ain't we???

This tes leaded me to discard those $sientology\dianetics fabulations....

Although l remain totally open to "serious" work and investigations submitted To our critical thinking...about this hypothesis....

​

Isn't it fascinating, in regard to all money left in $sientology donations accounts that we never hear of one coming black to claim ils status and and go back on services ???? Or either a refound????

Good post.

Actually, once when I worked in Treasury AOLA, someone tried to claim past life monies on account of someone who had died.

Not only was the request not taken seriously, but some unethical reg had already debited the money that was on account for books (they received book commissions back then) and the GO was called and the person was escorted out of the building and supposedly either an SP or connected to one.

Scientology. Lol.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

One thing that amazed me when I was a scientologist was when people spoke atout their past live.

I never ever encountered a single one who said
He\she was for exemple just a normal being doing a normal job like a carpenter, a mother talking care of family...

Nop...they all were the most proeminent famous specimens of human history...Even a few were LRH...

For exemple: Mozart, Napoléon, Beethoven, Shakespeare, or the wealthiest prince of a certain territory...

No need to comment...ain't we???

This tes leaded me to discard those $sientology\dianetics fabulations....

Although l remain totally open to "serious" work and investigations submitted To our critical thinking...about this hypothesis....

​

Isn't it fascinating, in regard to all money left in $sientology donations accounts that we never hear of one coming black to claim ils status and and go back on services ???? Or either a refound????

I guess you weren't an auditor. Most of the past lives I heard in session were pretty normal. I had a Thomas Jefferson who was always a popular famous person track. And General Von Paulus who surrendered the German 6th Army at Stalingrad. Edgar Allen Poe was one of my favorite ESMB posters and looked much like him in this lifetime.

No...

The people who talked of past lives out of session tended to be weaker pc's

 

[George Layton]

Welcome t what promises to be an exceptionally...

HOT!!!

and lively thread.


"Critical Thinking"


An exceptionally valuable and rare capacity of the intellect utterly despised and degraded by the antiscilons of this board who make of it a "buzz" phrase and claim it the sole possession of those who think it can only serve those who view Hubbard as evil and his work as nothing but a scam.

At this desk, critical thinking has been applied from the first to take the materials to the threshing floor for separating our Plainsman's wheat from his chaff...

When I apply critical thinking to this opening post I come up with, this is about you.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Pardon me, but your denial of not professing a belief in the aforementioned past life/spiritual travels shows evidence to the contrary. Here you claim you believe it was you that lived a life as a reporter, and that you can describe it in great detail. You say it's perplexing to you that scientists can not present proof of these things despite how many people can explain them with the same detail.

I can describe in great detail a dream I had, or a book I read. Does this mean it is proof? Scientists should go the extra mile for my kind and prove that these memories are significant or are real?

Past life experiences have been documented a ton, yes. Many people feel they have experienced them. It happens in psychotherapy too. Talking about them may even offer some relief in some instances, but there is no proof that those incidents happened in reality. Does there need to be proof for those that are upset by the ones pointing out that it's not proven? Is it a matter of being right? What is the purpose of knowing past lives are true? If you believe it, and you can't differentiate between belief and science, what does this thread matter?

EDITED: All of the above to read a bit better, plus I want to say, I don't mean to strip people from their beliefs. I mean, I kind of do, but you opened the thread. I used to believe, or "know" this stuff was True. I didn't snap out of it overnight. It was a long path of, not my critical thinking returning to me--because I really never had it, or a healthy outlook to begin with; it took a lot of reading. Lots of scientific abstracts, lots of study of historical science and people that wanted to prove this stuff way before L. Ron Hubbard was even born. One has to gather miles of data before making a decision. I'd say 10 years I read. I've been out for 19. I never wanted to think he was wrong, about anything. I wanted him to be right about something. Scientology was everything to me. I wish I could describe all that to you in enough detail. I don't knock Hubbard for no reason. I have proof.

I reported what came up in session. I didn't claim any certainty of it's truth

What I did was a real tight rope walk because I applied critical thinknig as I studied. Few people can do that w/o keeping a distance but I maintained intellectual integrity and scientific rigor AND studied and practiced auditing on it's own terms

 

[strativarius]

I guess you weren't an auditor. Most of the past lives I heard in session were pretty normal. I had a [bcolor=#ffff00]Thomas Jefferson[/bcolor] who was always a popular famous person track. [bcolor=#ffff00]And General Von Paulus[/bcolor] who surrendered the German 6th Army at Stalingrad. [bcolor=#ffff00]Edgar Allen Poe[/bcolor] was one of my favorite ESMB posters and looked much like him in this lifetime.

No...

The people who talked of past lives out of session tended to be weaker pc's

Yes, they're all pretty normal everyday folks aren't they?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

You mean show your OT miracles?

Well, i know the question wasn't directed at me but i would like to share a big win i had recently. . .

I was driving on the freeway and picked up some enturbulation in my space. I could not locate anything in my car that it could be coming from. I was alone and the radio was off. So i began to check my mirrors to peruse and pervade the space surrounding my car, gradiently expanding my sphere of awareness until i was big enough (as a being) to perceive all five lanes of traffic.

But still, I could not spot the source of the enturbulation.

So, I broader my range of responsibility and was able to take in the entire freeway going in both directions. TEN FRICKIN' LANES !!! But still nothing, i felt the entheta coming in but could not spot its source.

I pulled over to the side (emergency lane) and got out and checked if perhaps one of my tires was low on air. Nope. Not the source of entheta.

After driving another 15 minutes I was going pretty PTS trying to spot where it was coming from. Just then something drew my attention to the sky. I started to feel my TA blowing down. I must be getting close to spotting it I excitedly thought!

I kept perceiving and using my knowingness. . .

Then I perceived that a 747 commercial airline had been hijacked and was going to be crashed into the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, intending to kill the 257,000 seated fans in one nightmarish fireball. Terrorists!

I began to r-factor the being telepathically to not do it, that it was out-ethics. But they ignored me so I had to increase the gradient.

Then I began to scream at them tone 40 that they will lose their eternity if they commit an over of that magnitude. I hadn't realized that my window was down so neighboring motorists kind of stared at me as if I was crazy. I rapidly closed my window and continued screaming commands.

Still, the terrorists just ignored me.

So, I postulated that the terrorists would come to their senses and realize that there was something better than Jihadi Suicide Missions that murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children. Suddenly i got back a theta com from the lead terrorist who asked: "What do you mean something better?"

I gave him a telepathic introductory lecture about the ARC triangle and how he should get in two-way com with those 257,000 people if he wanted them to join his religion. I even telepathically send him the image of the cover of "BIG LEAGUE CLOSING TECHNIQUES" and told him it had tech that would really help him get his BIM stat into power (Bodies in the Mosque).

He suddenly changed his mind and gave control of the plane back to the captain and took his assigned seat.

When I got home later that night I watched the late news and there were no terrorist attacks or crashed planes at the Indianapolis Racetrack.

I had used the tech to avert the greatest terrorist attack in American history.

I smiled to myself, knowing that the tech had once again worked.

O don't be silly HH...

One 747 hitting The Brickyard isn't going to kill "hundreds of thousands". Three or four thousand tops and probably not even that.

And you aren't getting a merit badge for your good deed until stop exagerating

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Yes, they're all pretty normal everyday folks aren't they?

Those were exceptions

TSTO

 

[Clay Pigeon]

When I apply critical thinking to this opening post I come up with, this is about you.

Sounds like a "held down seven" George...


What it's about is things such as several times I have read posters state flatly "L Ron Hubbard murdered Susan Meister"

I've never seen any local mavens of critical thinking hold forth on this

Tell me George, Did L Ron Hubbard murder Susan Meister?

 

[EZ Linus]

One thing that amazed me when I was a scientologist was when people spoke atout their past live.

I never ever encountered a single one who said
He\she was for exemple just a normal being doing a normal job like a carpenter, a mother talking care of family...

Nop...they all were the most proeminent famous specimens of human history...Even a few were LRH...

For exemple: Mozart, Napoléon, Beethoven, Shakespeare, or the wealthiest prince of a certain territory...

No need to comment...ain't we???

This tes leaded me to discard those $sientology\dianetics fabulations....

Although l remain totally open to "serious" work and investigations submitted To our critical thinking...about this hypothesis....

​

Isn't it fascinating, in regard to all money left in $sientology donations accounts that we never hear of one coming black to claim ils status and and go back on services ???? Or either a refound????

Me! I was a normal, insignificant person of no consequence in the previous lives I thought I had while I was in Scientology. It would have been great to have been Susan B. Anthony--someone I'd been hoping to be and "felt" I could have been, but never actually had session "proof" of, ha ha ha. The most recent life I had, I was "Glen," a clerk (not sure what kind), and part-time staff at some small org in Scientology, but I never knew which. I thought it could have been Toronto, but was afraid to check on the dates because I didn't want to be wrong about which orgs were formed in the 60s. However, it didn't matter too much in my mind since it had nothing to do with the sessions. I started to justify the running of past lives and buried my severe doubts. I told myself it didn't matter if it was real as long as I was blowing charge in session. I believed that Hubbard had knowledge of physics and mental mass had physical weight.

I digress.

The first time I ever ran a past life, I argued with the auditor. I told him I knew it was just my imagination, the part that ran wild when I read Jean Auel's Clan of the Cave Bear a few years before. It was a similar scenario. But he kept validating it as real. The power of suggestion goes a long way.

 

[EZ Linus]

Oh I have a funny story. A friend of mine who did countless hours of auditing told me he audited about 100 different Jesuses. But one of the funniest stories was when he told me about a woman he audited who thought she was a famous jazz singer--who he knew was still alive!!! Ha ha ha. I asked him if he told her in the session, or after. No, of course not.

Then, when I was very new to Scientology, I worked for an OT V. He was a famous jazz musician and he told me he was George Washington. About a year later, some friend of mine wanted me to hook her up with him, and she had told me years before that she thought she was Martha! HA!!!