michaelangelo
Gold Meritorious Patron
Interesting video about what happens when we "die".
I tried to take it seriously, I really really did, but clocks stopping and smoke rising ... it's all a bit too woo for me, sorry.Interesting video about what happens when we "die".
Fair enough. But this is a researcher passing on the findings from hundreds, thousands of cases. Not a personal anecdote of what one person perceived, like we post on ESMB. The clock-stopping thing? I don't know, did he say what percentage that was?I tried to take it seriously, I really really did, but clocks stopping and smoke rising ... it's all a bit too woo for me, sorry.
I just got the feeling that he saw what he wanted to see in all of this.Thanks very much for posting that. I watched it all the way through, despite initial misgivings.
This is a man passing on his research findings of various studies. One comment he made was that one study could not be replicated today because 98% of the reports of NDEs were from people who had never read about others' NDEs. (Note that he uses "NDE" to include people who weren't dying -- cardiac arrest etc -- what we might call going exterior etc on a very recent thread).
He did a lot of research interviewing carers in hospices, because at the time he couldn't get it past the institutions' ethics committees to interview the patients themselves. It was fairly common for there to be a sort of standard "process" the dying people went through, starting a couple of weeks before they left, involving (spiritual) visits from (dead) relatives and personal visits to "the other side". At some point it would hit the person hard that this was it, they would shortly die, they would have to let go of every part of their human life -- possessions, relationships, etc.
Since many of us on ESMB are getting on a bit, and although we may not be about to die personally we may know people who will, it's useful information to have, well worth spending the hour watching this video.
Paul
My parents will be passing on soon and an uncle passed on two days ago. I found this research both intelligent and useful. IMO people need to know that die-ing dosen't have to be anything that is feared but moreover a new beginning.Thanks very much for posting that. I watched it all the way through, despite initial misgivings.
This is a man passing on his research findings of various studies. One comment he made was that one study could not be replicated today because 98% of the reports of NDEs were from people who had never read about others' NDEs. (Note that he uses "NDE" to include people who weren't dying -- cardiac arrest etc -- what we might call going exterior etc on a very recent thread).
He did a lot of research interviewing carers in hospices, because at the time he couldn't get it past the institutions' ethics committees to interview the patients themselves. It was fairly common for there to be a sort of standard "process" the dying people went through, starting a couple of weeks before they left, involving (spiritual) visits from (dead) relatives and personal visits to "the other side". At some point it would hit the person hard that this was it, they would shortly die, they would have to let go of every part of their human life -- possessions, relationships, etc.
Since many of us on ESMB are getting on a bit, and although we may not be about to die personally we may know people who will, it's useful information to have, well worth spending the hour watching this video.
Paul
That's interesting Roger. Do you care to share your experience about have died and come back ?.Actually, I'm with you Paul.
In my view, I found this fellow to be a brilliant, ethical and honest researcher.
I found it both funny and telling that in his earlier years his view was that all the NDE experience woo, woo was all being reported from California and was BUNKUM. But then, as various events in his medical practice occurred, he began to have to investigate WTF was going on!
Thus, what he has reported in this video is what the hell has been found as a result of investigating all aspects of the dying and NDE event, including not only those who died or went through NDE's but also those present when these folks did their trick and those folks who are relatives or otherwise were close friends.
To me, it represents a brilliant and accurate investigative report.
But then I am prejudiced . . . having myself "died and come back" since the birth of this body
This link is to a more formal presentation by him where he uses some graphics.
Peter Fenwick on "Experiences surrounding near-death and dying"
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If believing that death is a 'new beginning' gives you peace of mind then that's all well and good, but there is absolutely no scientific proof whatsoever that there is an 'afterlife'. End of.My parents will be passing on soon and an uncle passed on two days ago. I found this research both intelligent and useful. IMO people need to know that die-ing dosen't have to be anything that is feared but moreover a new beginning.
I wrote about it some ten years ago here on ESMB . . . in the days when we openly discussed stuff like thisThat's interesting Roger. Do you care to share your experience about have died and come back ?.
Well, Strattie, my man . . . you are precisely right and correct. This stuff is too woo for youI tried to take it seriously, I really really did, but clocks stopping and smoke rising ... it's all a bit too woo for me, sorry.
I have no problem with your conviction but do however have one question, what is an example of some scientific proof that would be possible and sufficient for anyone?but there is absolutely no scientific proof whatsoever that there is an 'afterlife'. End of.
And, truly, your opinion is just as valid. However, when you say "absolutely no scientific proof whatsoever" that goes both ways. Scientifically, reincarnation, OOB, paranormal experiences and other "spiritual" things are neither proven nor disproven by science. In my view, such matters lie, by definition, outside of the physical universe. So, expecting physical universe science to prove or disprove such matters is just silly -- by definition.If believing that death is a 'new beginning' gives you peace of mind then that's all well and good, but there is absolutely no scientific proof whatsoever that there is an 'afterlife'. End of.
<snip> and other "spiritual" things are neither proven nor disproven by science. In my view, such matters lie, by definition, outside of the physical universe. So, expecting physical universe science to prove or disprove such matters is just silly -- by definition.
<snip>
In my opinion, ALL religious dogma is bad, wrong and false.Meteorology describes what causes lightening bolts in the sky to occur but does it disprove that a god Zeus is behind it?
Would you believe in the existence of the god Zeus or is the meteorology explanation sufficient?
Or would you believe that maybe the god Zeus is one step above the meteorology explanation and both are true?
In your opinion, has the science of meteorology proved that the god Zeus has nothing to do with the occurrence of lightening bolts in the sky?
When you think of the billions of people who have lived and died here on Earth, then you might be forgiven for believing that there would be more 'evidence' of one individual living consecutive existences in different bodies (which is what most of us are talking about I think) than the few sensationalised examples we have all read about. What form this 'evidence' would take for me would be that practically everyone would remember who they were last lifetime and not just the handful of cases I've just mentioned. Of course, there may be some reason why these memories are lost (perhaps these memories are stored in the brain and the brain dies but the 'life force' moves on) who knows? And that's the point. WHO KNOWS?I have no problem with your conviction but do however have one question, what is an example of some scientific proof that would be possible and sufficient for anyone?
We're only talking memories here and how does one prove a series of recurrent memories?
Like I said earlier, some have had spiritual experiences and some never will and for good reason, reasons beyond our grasp & understanding.
We all have our individual essences and natures for whatever reason and Volkswagens will never sprout wings and circle the globe but birds will.
Perhaps some souls were created as "cosmic recyclables" while others came from "one and done" batches. Why that would be the case is entirely beyond my reasoning and security clearance.
Peace.
All I know is that the past lives would have to have been lived elsewhere until recently as for most of human history the earths population was in the low millions though it's closing in on 8 billion now:When you think of the billions of people who have lived and died here on Earth, then you might be forgiven for believing that there would be more 'evidence' of one individual living consecutive existences in different bodies (which is what most of us are talking about I think) than the few sensationalised examples we have all read about. What form this 'evidence' would take for me would be that practically everyone would remember who they were last lifetime and not just the handful of cases I've just mentioned. Of course, there may be some reason why these memories are lost (perhaps these memories are stored in the brain and the brain dies but the 'life force' moves on) who knows? And that's the point. WHO KNOWS?