Rude. Just because you write something stupid off the top of your head that makes no sense is no reason to get nasty when you get called out on it.
That was tongue-in-cheek and I used the
emoticon to stress that.
General specific is a cartoon character, reference was aimed to be neither serious, nor nasty nor rude:
Oh and for the record, I do not necessarily "dislike all religions". I'm cool with religions that do not manipulate, exploit or otherwise abuse their members. Which does not mean I necessarily believe everything they say is true (ie: I don't believe in the power of christian prayer).
And there you are, right back to making up definitions for things and redefining them however you need to try to force what you said to sound rational.
Well, that is exactly why I wrote: "
If we define "cult" as a spiritual movement that is manipulates and exploits its members(...)"
As you provided a different, more exhaustive definitio, we can decide to proceed with that definition. I'll see if it can be applied to the United Methodist Church. I'll sum up the total at the end:
The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader, and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
Yes - deceased leader Jesus Christ. +1
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
Punished - no. Discouraged - yes. +1
Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, or debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
According to this UMC link, speakign in tongues is acceptable, though not necessary. I know of no other such practices in the UMC. I would agree that these instances of speaking "in tongues" should not be considered to be "used in excess" within the UMC. +0
The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (e.g., members must get permission to date, change jobs, or marry—or leaders prescribe what to wear, where to live, whether to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
We can probably argue for years on what is "great detail". Certainly the UMC wants to regulate the martial and sexual life of its members.
I understand that there are now factions within the UMC trying to push their respective views to be church law.
So I'll count this as +0.5
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and its members (e.g., the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
Yes - deceased leader Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the only gate to salvation. +1
The group has a polarized, us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders, or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
It is certainly like that in China, Russia and AFAIK all muslim countries.
It was like that for methodists in early modern England, but now it is quite mainstream in christian countries.
So I guess my conclusion is - yes, but ony in some places (admittedly not the nicest places at that). +0.5
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (e.g., lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
I wouldn't have the tools to quantify that, but I think we can agree that this is not likely the case for the UMC. +0
The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and control members. Often this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
All christian denominations do this to some extent, through the notions of sin, original sin, fall from grace, sinful thoughts, being given grace by God even if we do not deserve it. That last part is certainly
a core UMC belief.
+1
Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
For the most part, does not apply to UMC. Unless maybe its with some incredibly hostile or destructive person. But even that would be rare for almost any chrsitian church.
+0
The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
Oh yes. UMC sends out missionaries and practices evangelisation etc. +1
The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave—or even consider leaving—the group.
None of us has the tools to quantify this, but in my assessment true believers of any christian denomination believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation, hence leaving christianity is a threat to their souls. +1
Sum total is: 7/11. So would that make them a "cult" or a "semi-cult"? I would argue taht this is a church that has some cult-characteristics, but is for the most part benign.
Which is not to say that I consider their tech to work. Sorry to any Methodists reading this.