Is Scientology really that bad?

[Clay Pigeon]

Who is general wogs, is he on Trump's team?

I think you're confusing him with Gen. Orin D. Quagmyre.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

More Beist than Deist.

The Deists rejected Christianity, but thought there must be a god because the universe needed a creator. It ain't necessarily so, though. Current thinking is the universe began in a Big Bang and will end, eventually, in a Big Crunch. The universe will contract until it's all highly compressed, under immense pressure. But then the immense heat generated by the compression will cause a huge explosion: another Big Bang, and the universe will be born again.

How long has this been going on? Was there a beginning? Or has this cycle been going on FOREVER? I don't think we'll ever know.

But one thing we DO know: Yes, scientology really IS that bad.

Well, as a "Beist" (as differentiated from an existentialist?) you are a being.

You and I should be pretty much on the same page with that...

Now then...

If there is no other being superior to me then I would be The Supreme Being. As I am incontrovertably CERTAIN!!!

...I am not The Supreme Being

Then someone else must be

Is it you?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

yep, that's rhetoric, namely appeal to authority or ethos, namely Boston Public Library and Encyclopedia Britannica and the Bible.

the statement:

" Regardless of your opinion of it one cannot be considered an educated person in Western Civilization without some familiarity with The Bible."

is a statement of appeal to authority, the bible, plus emotions or pathos namely "educated".

You would be well advised to examine the definition of rhetoric.

I make few rhetorical statements, most notably:

Science of Survival is the single finest basic handbook of psychology ever published.

Reports of material occurences are not rhetoric.

 

[Gib]

You would be well advised to examine the definition of rhetoric.

I make few rhetorical statements, most notably:

Science of Survival is the single finest basic handbook of psychology ever published.

Reports of material occurences are not rhetoric.

you, on the other hand, ought to be advised to know the difference between rhetoric and rhetorical.

SOS, dianetics and all of Hubbard's writings, that means everything including his HCO PL's and HCOB's and advices, and books, etc are the finest pieces of rhetoric using logos, pathos and ethos to persuade.

"Ethos or the ethical appeal, means to convince an audience of the author's credibility or character. Pathos or the emotional appeal, means to persuade an audience by appealing to their emotions. ... Logos or the appeal to logic, means to convince an audience by use of logic or reason."

https://pathosethoslogos.com/

 

[Karakorum]

Actually, most people today do consider Scientology to be a religion -- and I'm including still-ins, exes, and general wogs -- but they consider it a weird, not-to-be-trusted kind of religion, like the Assassins.

Helena

As I like to say, its a fraud, a cult, a religion, a philosophy and a high control grroup (I should know, right?) and way of life all in one.

 

[pineapple]

Who is general wogs, is he on Trump's team?

Trump's not sure if the general's on his team or not. He's kinda wog-wog about it.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

you, on the other hand, ought to be advised to know the difference between rhetoric and rhetorical.

SOS, dianetics and all of Hubbard's writings, that means everything including his HCO PL's and HCOB's and advices, and books, etc are the finest pieces of rhetoric using logos, pathos and ethos to persuade.

"Ethos or the ethical appeal, means to convince an audience of the author's credibility or character. Pathos or the emotional appeal, means to persuade an audience by appealing to their emotions. ... Logos or the appeal to logic, means to convince an audience by use of logic or reason."

https://pathosethoslogos.com/

I am persuaded by the results of practical application Gib

And less than pleased by Hubbard's egregious use of rhetoric

As I have essayed before I know the exact time I truly became an auditor.

After I trained in SF I came east and was hanging out at Bobby Ford's Cambridge mission. He ran the 50's group process "Infinite Space" one day and I was impressed with it. A few day later Billy Martin and I were at his friend Steve's house. They were in the kitchen and was with Steve's wife in the living room. I mentioned I was studying scientology and she asked about it. Using NO RHETORIC WHATSOEVER to prepare her as I wanted to examine the result with a person who was not prepared I ran the Infinite Space process, seven simple commands. When I was done she opened her big blue eyes and said "A few years ago I had ECT. Ever since my head has felt stuffed up. Now it feels clear.

No rhetoric.

Pure practical application and result

 

[Bill]

I am persuaded by the results of practical application Gib

And less than pleased by Hubbard's egregious use of rhetoric

As I have essayed before I know the exact time I truly became an auditor.

After I trained in SF I came east and was hanging out at Bobby Ford's Cambridge mission. He ran the 50's group process "Infinite Space" one day and I was impressed with it. A few day later Billy Martin and I were at his friend Steve's house. They were in the kitchen and was with Steve's wife in the living room. I mentioned I was studying scientology and she asked about it. Using NO RHETORIC WHATSOEVER to prepare her as I wanted to examine the result with a person who was not prepared I ran the Infinite Space process, seven simple commands. When I was done she opened her big blue eyes and said "A few years ago I had ECT. Ever since my head has felt stuffed up. Now it feels clear.

No rhetoric.

Pure practical application and result

The amount of truly bad thinking going on with you is astounding.
false cause

You presumed that a real or perceived relationship between things means that one is the cause of the other.​

You seem to confuse correlation for causation. Sometimes correlation is coincidental, or it may be attributable to a common cause. I knew a woman who could "cure" my headaches with a foot rub -- but others, using the same "foot rub tech", couldn't do so.​

composition/division

You assumed that one part of something has to be applied to all, or other, parts of it; or that the whole must apply to its parts.​

Because a few things in Hubbard's "tech" appear to work for you, you assume all the "tech" is workable for everyone.​

begging the question

You presented a circular argument in which the conclusion was included in the premise.​

Your "proof" that Hubbard's tech works is "the tech works". Where are the actual results that Hubbard promised his "tech" would produce? Nope, your only answer is "the tech works because the tech works". Sheesh.​

anecdotal

You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.​

the texas sharpshooter

You cherry-picked a data cluster to suit your argument, or found a pattern to fit a presumption.​

You only remember your personal anecdotes where something good appeared to happen --- while carefully ignoring hard evidence that Hubbard's promised results from his "tech" have never been seen in the real world.​

the sunk cost fallacy

You irrationally cling to things that have already cost you something.​

It appears that you have invested so much of your life and beliefs in the idea that "Hubbard is a genius! The tech works!" that, to admit much of that is lies would be more than you could stand.​

confirmation bias

You favor things that confirm your existing beliefs.​

belief bias

A conclusion supports your existing beliefs, so you'll rationalize anything that supports it.​

the backfire effect

When some aspect of your core beliefs is challenged, it can cause you to believe even more strongly.​

From: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
and: https://yourbias.is/

 

[lotus]

Yes...

It is that bad; CoS does things which make blood boil

OTOH...

When it's done right and well by people who understand and abide The Creed of Church, respect our Judeochristian scripture and the vast well of accumulated wisdom of human civilization and honor The Bill of Rights...

It can be pretty damn good

No.

$cientology is worse than that. Much worse.

Poor guy!
He was jealous of all the love Jesus got
A man who died 2,000 years ago...........

I've read Hubbard very carefully...

L. Ron Hubbard is accepted as a fellow Christian and distinctly Judeochristian whereas it is a very Jewish thing "to have a lover's quarrel with God" and as your citation makes evident Pineapple, the esteemed Mr Hubbard's Christian faith was so deep and powerful he displayed his contempt for The Devil's Advocate by piling high the DA's plate with vile viands.

Hubbard would have laughed in your face Birdy. He wasn't a Christian. His BS in the OT VIII Student Briefing was just one of his more insane moments. Declaring oneself Lucifer doesn't make you a Christian no matter how much you'd like to spin that as his little tiff with God.

Hubbard said whatever he believed aided the survival of L. Ron Hubbard. The dynamic principle of existence, remember? Survive! For Hubbard this meant the acquisition of ever more wealth and power.

"Material things are yours for the asking. Men are your slaves. Elemental spirits are your slaves.
You are power among powers, light in the darkness, beauty in all." -- The Affirmations of L. Ron Hubbard

http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/who-was-l-ron-hubbard.17684/#post-408961

When it suited him to push our Christian buttons he did so. When he thought he could get away with it -- when he had the audience sufficiently controlled -- he revealed his desire to replace Christ and make himself the Messiah.

We had a few discussions lately regarding the alledged satanic natute of the cult which would be 9n total opposition with cristian practice.

Here are for you @Clay Pigeon , some very interesting excerpt of credible and knowledged people on the subject...although I know it won't hit you critical thought but will be processed in cognitive dissonance and justification of yours...

Ref: Xenu.net

Excerpt Margery Wakefield 1991

The Satanic Roots of Scientology® Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. --- Ephesians 5:11

It is a well documented fact that the religion of Hubbard was Satanism. Hubbard's mentor was, in fact, the infamous English black magician Aleister Crowley. Hubbard reportedly discovered Crowley's works as a teenager on a trip to the Library of Congress with his mother.Thereafter, he was fascinated by Crowley's "Magick," and Crowley became Hubbard's mentor, a relationship that would last until Crowley's death in 1947.
In one of his later lectures, Hubbard would refer to Crowley as "my good friend." [Miller, p. 135]
Crowley's most famous work was called The Book of the Law in which he expressed his philosophy of life: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." It is a philosophy Hubbard was to live by throughout his life.

Crowley wrote, in The Book of the Law:
We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit; let them die in their misery. Compassion is the vice of Kings; stamp down the wretched and the weak; this is the law of the strong; this is our law and the joy of the world.I am of the snake that giveth Knowledge and Delight, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs.... They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self.... Be strong, Oh man! Lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture ... the kings of the earth shall be kings forever; the slaves shall serve.

Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter, and destroy them utterly.
I am unique and conqueror. I am not of the slaves that perish. Be they damned and dead! Amen. [Corydon, p. 49]

Many of Crowley's beliefs have been incorporated into Scientology®, especially in the secret upper levels of Scientology®, called the "OT levels."Following in Crowley's footsteps, Hubbard adopted some of the practices of the black magician, including the use of drugs and the use of affirmations.

According to Hubbard's son, his father regularly used illegal drugs including amphetamines, barbiturates and hallucinogens including cocaine, peyote and mescaline. [Corydon, p. 53]
Among the many affirmations that Hubbard was known to have used was the following:
All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why! [Corydon, p. 53]

After being discharged from the Navy in December of 1945, Hubbard did not head for home, where his wife and two small children were living in Bremerton, Washington. He instead headed directly for a house in Pasadena, California, where an eclectic assortment of people lived including one Jack Parsons, the leader of a satanic organization called the Ordo Templis Orientis. That was the U.S. name for the organization headed in England by Crowley.Parsons wrote to Crowley about Hubbard:
About three months ago I met Ron ... a writer and explorer of whom I had known for some time. He is a gentleman; he has red hair, green eyes, is honest and intelligent, and we have become great friends.

Although Ron has no formal training in magick, he has an extraordinary amount of experience and understanding in the field. From some of his experiences I deduce that he is in direct touch with some higher intelligence, possibly his guardian angel.

Ron appears to have some sort of highly developed astral vision. He described his angel as a beautiful winged woman with red hair, whom he calls the Empress, and who has guided him through his life, and saved him many times.

We are pooling our resources in a partnership which will act as a limited company to control our business ventures.
I need a magical partner. I have many experiments in mind.... [Corydon, p. 255]
Hubbard and Parsons struck up an occult partnership, the result of which was a series of rituals they carried out with the objective of producing a "moonchild," an incarnation of "Babylon" in an unborn child. A woman in the house was chosen to be the mother of this satanic child.In order to obtain a woman prepared to bear this magical child, Parsons and Hubbard engaged in eleven days of rituals.All this seemed to achieve its desired result and, on January 18th, Parsons found the girl who was prepared to become the mother of Babalon, and to go through the required incantation rituals. During these rituals, which took place on the first three days of March 1946, Parsons was High Priest and had sexual intercourse with the girl, while Hubbard who was present acted as skryer, seer, or clairvoyant and described what was supposed to be happening on the astral plane. [Corydon, p. 256]

Parsons wrote to Crowley:I am under command of extreme secrecy. I have had the most devastating experience of my life between February second and March fourth. I believe it was the result of the ninth degree working with the girl.... I have been in direct touch with the One who is most Holy and Beautiful as mentioned in the Book of the Law. First instructions were received direct through Ron, the Seer. I have followed them to the letter. There was a desire for incarnation. I am to act as instructor guardian guide for nine months, then it will be loosed upon the world. That's all I can say for now.... [Corydon, p. 257]

Crowley remained unimpressed. He wrote to one of his associates:Apparently Parsons and Hubbard or somebody is producing a moonchild. I get fairly frantic when I contemplate the idiocy of these louts. [Corydon, p. 257]

Later, Hubbard was to reveal some of his occult beliefs to his son in a conversation documented by L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.:We were in Philadelphia. It was November 1952.Every night in the hotel, in preparation for the next day's lecture, he'd pace the floor, exhilarated by this or that passage from Aleister Crowley's writings.
Just a month before, he had been in London, where he had finally been able to quench his thirst; to fill his cup with the true, raw, naked power of the magick. The lust of centuries at his very fingertips.

To stroke and taste the environs of the Great Beast, to fondle Crowley's books, papers, and memorabilia had filled him with pure ecstasy!
In London he had acquired, at last, the final keys; enabling him to take his place upon the "Throne of the Beast," to which he firmly believed himself to be the rightful heir.
"The books and contents to be kept forever secret," he says. "To reveal them will cause you instant insanity; rip your mind apart; destroy you," he says.
"Secrets, techniques and powers I alone have conquered and harnessed. I alone have refined, improved on, applied my engineering principles to. Science and logic. The keys! My keys to the doorway of the Magick, my magick! The power!"
"I've made the Magick really work," he says. "No more foolish rituals. I've stripped the Magick to basics -- access without liability."
"Sex by will," he says. "Love by will -- no caring and no sharing -- no feelings. None," he says. "Love reversed," he says. "Love isn't sex. Love is no good; puts you at effect. Sex is the route to power," he says. "Scarlet women! They are the secret to the doorway. Use and consume. Feast. Drink the power through them. Waste and discard them."
"Scarlet?" I ask.
"Yes Scarlet: the blood of their bodies, the blood of their souls," he says.
"Release your will from bondage. Bend their bodies; bend their minds; bend their wills; beat back the past. The present is all there is. No consequences and no guilt. Nothing is wrong in the present. The will is free -- totally free; no feelings; no effort; pure thought -- separated. The Will postulating the Will," he says.
"Will, Sex, Love, Blood, Door, Power, Will. Logical," he says.
"The doorway of Plenty. The Great Door of the Great Beast." [Corydon, p. 307]

It is possible that Hubbard not only believed in Satan -- he believed he was Satan!According to Ron (Hubbard) Jr., his father considered himself to be the one "who came after"; that he was Crowley's successor; that he had taken on the mantle of the "Great Beast." He told him that Scientology® actually began on December the 1st, 1947. This was the day Aleister Crowley died. [Corydon, p. 50]
This is the foundation of Scientology®, the "Road to Total Freedom"![....]
Corydon, Bent. 1987. "L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman." Secaucus, New Jersey: Lyle Stuart.


Ron Hubbard jr
PENTHOUSE
June 1983? [....]
Penthouse: Did [L. Ron Hubbard Sr.]
write the book off the top of his head? Did he do any real research?
Hubbard: No research at all. When he has answered that question over the years, his answer has changed according to which biography he was writing. Sometimes he used to write a new biography every week. He usually said that he had put thirty years of research into the book. But no, he did not. What he did, reaily, was take bits and pieces from other people and put them together in a blender and stir them all up --- and out came Dianetics®! All the examples in the book --- some 200 "real-life experiences" --- were just the result of his obsessions with abortions and unconscious states...

In fact, the vast majority of those incidents were invented off the top of his head. The rest stem from his own secret life, which was deeply involved in the occult and black-magic.

That involvement goes back to when he was sixteen, living in Washington. D.C. He got hold of the book by Alistair Crowley called The Book of Law. He was very interested in several things that were the creation of what some people call the Moon Child. It was basically an attempt to create an immaculate conception --- except by Satan rather than by God. Another important idea was the creation of what they call embryo implants --of getting a satanic or demonic spirit to inhabit the body of a fetus.

This would come about as a result of black-magic rituals, which included the use of hypnosis, drugs, and other dangerous and destructive practices. One of the important things was to destroy the evidence if you failed at this immaculate conception. That's how my father became obsessed with abortions. I have a memory of this that goes back to when I was six years old. It is certainly a problem for my father and for Scientology® that I rememoer this. It was around 1939, 1940, that I watched my father doing something to my mother. She was lying on the bed and he was sitting on her, facing her feet. He had a coat hanger in his hand. There was blood all over the place. I remember my father shouting at me. "Go back to bed!" A little while later a doctor came and took her off to the hospital. She didn't talk about it for quite a number of years. Neither did my father.
Penthouse: He was trying to perform an abortion?
Hubbard: According to him and my mother, he tried to do it with me. I was born at six and a half months and weighed two pounds, two ounces. I mean, I wasn't born: this is what came out as a result of their attempt to abort me. It happened during a night of partying --he got involved in trying to do a black-magic number. Also, I've got to complete this by saying that he thought of himself as the Beast 666 incarnate.
Penthouse: The devil?
Hubbard: Yes. The Antichrist. Alestair Crowley thought of himself as such. And when Crowley died in 1947, my father then decided that he should wear the cloak of the beast and become the most powerful being in the universe.
Penthouse: You were sixteen years old at that time. What did you believe in?
Hubbard: I believed in Satanism. There was no other religion in the house! Scientology® and black magic. What a lot of people don't realize is that Scientology® is black magic that is just spread out over a long time period. To perform black magic generally takes a few hours or, at most, a few weeks. But in Scientology it's stretched out over a lifetime, and so you don't see it. Black magic is the inner core of Scientology® --- and it is probably the only part of Scientology® that really works.
Also, you've got to realize that my father did not worship Satan. He thought he was Satan. He was one with Satan. He had a direct pipeline of communication and power with him. My father wouldn't have worshiped anything. I mean, when you think you're the most powerful being in the universe, you have no respect for anything, let alone worship.
[....]

http://home.kvalito.no/~xenu/archive/media_vault/Nochrist.ra
"Anyway, Everyman is then shown to have been crucified so don't think that it's an accident that this crucifixion, they found out that this applied. Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity. The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman. So of course each person seeing a crucified man, has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who says they are Christ. Now, there's two reasons for that, one is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people, so a person can have been crucified, but in R6 he is shown as crucified." - L. Ron Hubbard
Scientology® and Christianity are fundamentally at odds with each other. Scientology® scriptures state that Christ was a tool used by evil alien psychiatrists from outer space that is being used to keep us enslaved and emprisioned here on Earth. Christianity teaches that Christ came to Earth to liberate us and reunite us with the devine. FUNDAMENTALLY opposite.
Christianity teaches that when an enemy hits one cheek, a Christian is to offer the other cheek for assaulting as well. Scientology teaches punishment and harassment for imaginary slights.
Christianity teaches that Heaven is a place where one will live and bask in the glory of God the All-mighty. Scientology® scripture states that Heaven was a movie prop built on Mars by evil alien psychiatrists from outer space that was used to deceive souls into believing in Christianity. See:
ROUTINE 3 - HEAVEN
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF MAY 11, AD13
Central Orgs,
Franchise
ROUTINE 3
HEAVEN
And finally, Christians who know about Scientology® scripture insist that Scientology® is not compatible with Christianity. How in the Hell (pardon the pun) could it be?! As Honorary Kid has pointed out, "compatibility" implies "both ways." The Church of Scientology® can claim it is "compatible" with Christianity, but Christianity says otherwise.
"The second that you can convince somebody of the fact that the universe belongs to somebody else, particularly some unreachable, untouchable, undementable being that he can never come into contest with - and it all belongs to this other being, whether his name is God or Yahweh or Christ or Seven-Come-Eleven (it doesn't matter what this character's name is); whether it belongs to General Motors, or any other item - the second that you've got him really convinced, you've got him gone; he's a slave." --- L.R. Hubbard, "RESTIMULATION OF ENGRAMS, EXPERIENCES" - 26 October 1953

It is obvious, acvording to Birdy, his " esteemed Mr Hubbard's Christian faith was so deep and powerful...."

 

[Gib]

I am persuaded by the results of practical application Gib

And less than pleased by Hubbard's egregious use of rhetoric

As I have essayed before I know the exact time I truly became an auditor.

After I trained in SF I came east and was hanging out at Bobby Ford's Cambridge mission. He ran the 50's group process "Infinite Space" one day and I was impressed with it. A few day later Billy Martin and I were at his friend Steve's house. They were in the kitchen and was with Steve's wife in the living room. I mentioned I was studying scientology and she asked about it. Using NO RHETORIC WHATSOEVER to prepare her as I wanted to examine the result with a person who was not prepared I ran the Infinite Space process, seven simple commands. When I was done she opened her big blue eyes and said "A few years ago I had ECT. Ever since my head has felt stuffed up. Now it feels clear.

No rhetoric.

Pure practical application and result

so you do get Hubbard used rhetoric.

so you had some results from running "infinite space" on one person. How many others have you run on it? Are you still running infinite space on others, and if not, why not? And do tell of other success stories if you have run infinite space on them.

BTW, I've never heard of infinite space as a process. Do you recall where that is written?

 

[PirateAndBum]

Cmdr Birdy wants to hold onto his stable data and wins. I'm not sure it's doing his mental health any good being on this board being continually invalidated. Why do you persist Birdy?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

The amount of truly bad thinking going on with you is astounding.
false cause

You presumed that a real or perceived relationship between things means that one is the cause of the other.​

You seem to confuse correlation for causation. Sometimes correlation is coincidental, or it may be attributable to a common cause. I knew a woman who could "cure" my headaches with a foot rub -- but others, using the same "foot rub tech", couldn't do so.​

composition/division

You assumed that one part of something has to be applied to all, or other, parts of it; or that the whole must apply to its parts.​

Because a few things in Hubbard's "tech" appear to work for you, you assume all the "tech" is workable for everyone.​

begging the question

You presented a circular argument in which the conclusion was included in the premise.​

Your "proof" that Hubbard's tech works is "the tech works". Where are the actual results that Hubbard promised his "tech" would produce? Nope, your only answer is "the tech works because the tech works". Sheesh.​

anecdotal

You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.​

the texas sharpshooter

You cherry-picked a data cluster to suit your argument, or found a pattern to fit a presumption.​

You only remember your personal anecdotes where something good appeared to happen --- while carefully ignoring hard evidence that Hubbard's promised results from his "tech" have never been seen in the real world.​

the sunk cost fallacy

You irrationally cling to things that have already cost you something.​

It appears that you have invested so much of your life and beliefs in the idea that "Hubbard is a genius! The tech works!" that, to admit much of that is lies would be more than you could stand.​

confirmation bias

You favor things that confirm your existing beliefs.​

belief bias

A conclusion supports your existing beliefs, so you'll rationalize anything that supports it.​

the backfire effect

When some aspect of your core beliefs is challenged, it can cause you to believe even more strongly.​

From: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
and: https://yourbias.is/

An energetic assault on The Birdsong Encampment.

Energetic yes but you seem to have as little grasp of the principles of logical fallacy as you have of the basic principles of auditing. Which probably means the person coaching you is incompetent. FBM assailed me with the whole list of LF's some years ago. I don't know who gave them to him but he couldn't make heads or tails of them either.

I'll give you a detailed line item response later on...

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Cmdr Birdy wants to hold onto his stable data and wins. I'm not sure it's doing his mental health any good being on this board being continually invalidated. Why do you persist Birdy?

Well P&B, I could surely write a book in response and perhaps I shall...

But for the moment...

The year before DMSMH was published The Nobel Prize in Medicine was awarded to the Portuguese "Doctor" who rammed a surgical instrument very similar to a dime store icepick through the occipital bone behind the eye and wiggled it to mutilate the frontal lobes of the brain.

Prefrontal lobotomy thank God is no longer practiced and dianetics is

Would you prefer it to be the other way around?

And invalidate me to your hearts content...

I love free speech and am grateful to have it here

 

[lotus]

An energetic assault on The Birdsong Encampment.

You like it!

 

[Clay Pigeon]

You like it!

I like signs of life darling...

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Cmdr Birdy wants to hold onto his stable data and wins. I'm not sure it's doing his mental health any good being on this board being continually invalidated. Why do you persist Birdy?

O yeah...

Another reason I persist is I'm fukkin' dyin' f'crissakes; advanced COPD and atrial fibrillation and since my car was stolen three years ago I'm sleeping on the sidewalk and as of three months ago finally reduced to getting around with a fukkin' walker f'crissakes...

and lively debate about significant issues helps keep me goin'...

 

[Bill]

An energetic assault on The Birdsong Encampment.

Energetic yes but you seem to have as little grasp of the principles of logical fallacy as you have of the basic principles of auditing. Which probably means the person coaching you is incompetent. FBM assailed me with the whole list of LF's some years ago. I don't know who gave them to him but he couldn't make heads or tails of them either.

I'll give you a detailed line item response later on...

You do not have to insult me. I understand you disagree with me but we can still be friends and have a polite discourse.

A little bit ago, you demanded that we believe you or, you insisted, we must insult you by calling you deluded and/or a liar. I declined to insult you but my list of logical fallacies was an answer to your prior demand. These are the reasons we are not going to believe you -- you have not presented any logical arguments in that endeavor -- every effort you make in that direction is fatally flawed, by the logical fallacies I have listed, and many more.

You don't have to give up your belief, not at all, just stop demanding that we believe you or agree with you.

 

[Gib]

O yeah...

Another reason I persist is I'm fukkin' dyin' f'crissakes; advanced COPD and atrial fibrillation and since my car was stolen three years ago I'm sleeping on the sidewalk and as of three months ago finally reduced to getting around with a fukkin' walker f'crissakes...

and lively debate about significant issues helps keep me goin'...

you should have joined the Sea org, you know the motto is We Come Back. While the Buddhist believes we come back, hubbard said we can come back with full memory of who we were if we just followed his steps up the bridge to total freedom. You'd have not'in to worry about if you are dyin'.

Aren't we all dyin' in this stage of the game?

 

[lotus]

O yeah...

Another reason I persist is I'm fukkin' dyin' f'crissakes; advanced COPD and atrial fibrillation and since my car was stolen three years ago I'm sleeping on the sidewalk and as of three months ago finally reduced to getting around with a fukkin' walker f'crissakes...

and lively debate about significant issues helps keep me goin'...

So William,
How about you give up on wasting precious time
And energy in acting and making fun in behaving like a troll.

There are many topics you may debate and discuss with people and that won't bring about such emotional charge in reacting to your pretense about LRH and the Tech and validation you won"t have.

May I suggest you create a Birdie thread and you choose whatever you'd like to discuss, share or even opening your heart if you feel for. Would it better contribute in helping you going through your days????

There are multiple stories you can share .

However, if your only option remains to discuss the wonders of the Tech..fine.. Make your own "Tech wins" thread in the freezone forums and that may result in some people wanting to discuss Tech with you.

Good luck!
Lotus

 

[I told you I was trouble]

O yeah...

Another reason I persist is I'm fukkin' dyin' f'crissakes; advanced COPD and atrial fibrillation and since my car was stolen three years ago I'm sleeping on the sidewalk and as of three months ago finally reduced to getting around with a fukkin' walker f'crissakes...

and lively debate about significant issues helps keep me goin'...

You have a beautiful soul Birdie ... and you don't deserve what is happening. I know you worked hard to keep things together and I was only wondering earlier today if you are still driving the cab ... now I know it got stolen.

Take care sweetheart and find the right people over there and ask for help.