What's new

"Crimes" or "wrong doings" within the CofS?

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Straight from the heart...

,

...text deleted...

I felt terrible for the parents at the time but I was made to believe it was neglect on their behalf. Now I see, how wrong I was.

The fact that the CoS can just shift the blame and not take responsibility for their actions makes me sick.

I'm not a parent and can not even imagine what it would be like to loose a child let alone two and then to be forced into a cover up and made to lie while going through such loss just baffles me. All at the same time having their peers, friends and people in the CoS believe it was all their fault.

I hope the parents realise this and do not blame themsleves for all that has gone down.

I send my love to you guys and hope you are doing well.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This baffles me too kid - and I have zero understanding as to the "why" of the whole sad affair. :no:

The light that is now shining on the organization and heartfelt posts of actual witnesses to the events, such as your testimony here, is valuable beyond description. :yes:

I, for one, want to hear more from you in the future. :nervous: :yes: Your input is important to this board and its members.

(Besides, we have lots of fun too...) :whistling:

Love,

Roy, the EPs EP
 

Carmel

Crusader
Additional data on "a very perturbing truth"

Since posting about the deaths of these two little girls, I have been informed by teckid and another, of relevant detail that I missed on my first post. It's in relation to the first incident where the little girl fell through the stairwell.

A church service was set to occur. Wanting "bodies in the shop" no doubt (a stat often pushed), the ED of the org got her son (and two daughters of other staff members) to "nanny" for the children and babies, of those who otherwise would not have been able attend (had there been no creche facility).

The ED's 13 or 14 year old son (the one with the broken arm) was reportedly forced by his mother to be a "nanny" that day. He didn't want to do it (most 13/14 boys wouldn't, one would suspect). The girls (who were a little older than the boy) and the ED's son, were minding the littlies in a pokey room on the second floor (with no windows or fresh air - the old internship room). The girls had reportedly taken a couple of kids out of the room and into the HGC, and left the boy alone with the two one and a half year olds in the room, when the incident occurrred.

How could the Church's negligence be denied? They offered a creche service to people that was in serious violation of the laws of the land, and contrary to a duty of care that would be covered by common sense:
- the room was in no way appropriate for littlies
- there were no boundaries that the toddlers had to get through to get to the stairs
- the toddlers were being minded by a 13/14 year old boy (a minor himself with a broken arm), who obviously had no training in child care, and who didn't want to be there in the first place

Given the circumstances, denial of negligence on the Church's part is ludicrous. They are culpable on this one for sure!
 

Stan D'Teque

Patron with Honors
For Mrs Pattycake, here are some clues. One had two well-built daughters and has since been doing his TRs the Hard Way inside a prison cell where he belongs (but should've been put there a long time earlier, not on Solo Nots). One got stopped after OT 2 by ED Int when his ex-wife's current 2D found out about what he had done to his daughter - used to ride a motorbike in Sydney. One had several daugthers and had been giving them "Sex Education" starting with the eldest when she hit puberty and continuing down the next two - was ot 4 I think and none of this had seen the light of day. One was a foreign student under an assumed name who married a flannelette-wearing staff member to stay in the counrty - he'd been fiddling with his 8 year old nephew. Another was Syd F staff, formerly Book One Auditor posted as Nanny - the kid he fiddled with wound up on drugs and criminal once he hit his teens. The last was an SO member who batted for the other team - was quietly off-loaded for his stuff with kids. None were reported to the authorities although ALL of this data was gotten out of session. And I LOVE the responses you folks are giving to this thread - there's no way you can be scientologists - you have sympathy.
 

minnie

Patron with Honors
Since posting about the deaths of these two little girls, I have been informed by teckid and another, of relevant detail that I missed on my first post. It's in relation to the first incident where the little girl fell through the stairwell.

A church service was set to occur. Wanting "bodies in the shop" no doubt (a stat often pushed), the ED of the org got her son (and two daughters of other staff members) to "nanny" for the children and babies, of those who otherwise would not have been able attend (had there been no creche facility).

The ED's 13 or 14 year old son (the one with the broken arm) was reportedly forced by his mother to be a "nanny" that day. He didn't want to do it (most 13/14 boys wouldn't, one would suspect). The girls (who were a little older than the boy) and the ED's son, were minding the littlies in a pokey room on the second floor (with no windows or fresh air - the old internship room). The girls had reportedly taken a couple of kids out of the room and into the HGC, and left the boy alone with the two one and a half year olds in the room, when the incident occurrred.

How could the Church's negligence be denied? They offered a creche service to people that was in serious violation of the laws of the land, and contrary to a duty of care that would be covered by common sense:
- the room was in no way appropriate for littlies
- there were no boundaries that the toddlers had to get through to get to the stairs
- the toddlers were being minded by a 13/14 year old boy (a minor himself with a broken arm), who obviously had no training in child care, and who didn't want to be there in the first place

Given the circumstances, denial of negligence on the Church's part is ludicrous. They are culpable on this one for sure!

The door's lock was broken so the door could not be closed properly. Someone had suggested that a better room could be gotten, but no the ED's order was final. The ED's son was devastated. The little boy who had started going up the stairs with Lauren before she fell hasn't appeared to suffer any emotional trauma over it - YET.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is so mundane compared to others, but I thought I'd bring it up.

When scilons would go bankrupt, their credit card companies would have to cover the costs of their services. Sometimes, especially if the charges had been recent, their "donations" would be charged back to the org. I hated that then, but love it now.

People would re-fi until they got every penny of credit they could on their house, sometimes with ruinous escalation clauses. So sometimes the houses of public would get repoed, but then they'd be downstat because no more $ could be gotten out of them. (Instead of downstat because the regges had pushed so hard.)

So some of the increase in people's credit card rates as well as some of the mortgages that failed in the US are due to scilons, but obviously that's not a majority.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
The use, and abuse of children within Scientology does occur, and shouldn't be tolerated. Or had a blind eye turned to it.
Neo

I do have a slight disagreement with you. My post was very "glued to the chair" and yet I still needed to be able to run around the org and basically keep track of every staff member. Now that's what you call a dichotomy.

My senior had no resources for child care, and had to bring her kids to work. The were no problem, and I hope they've grown up well.

The elder, when not at school, liked to play with the equipment related to my job, and this would provide me the chance to run around the building as required. It was solely as he wanted to do it, and if he didn't there was no expectation that he should.

He would ask, "May I?", and I would gratefully answer, "Sure."

I got raked over the coals for letting a kid happily do something that helped instead of sitting in the corner being bored.

When I used to go to work with my father, I loved helping out. I could drag wires through spaces where no one else would fit. I remember spending a day jammed inside a roof bannging away with a hammer only inches from my face.

I got driving lessons on private land. "Okay, it's all yours. Don't drift off the track, or we'll go straight down a mineshaft." Child labor, or education?
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
I do have a slight disagreement with you. My post was very "glued to the chair" and yet I still needed to be able to run around the org and basically keep track of every staff member. Now that's what you call a dichotomy.

My senior had no resources for child care, and had to bring her kids to work. The were no problem, and I hope they've grown up well.

The elder, when not at school, liked to play with the equipment related to my job, and this would provide me the chance to run around the building as required. It was solely as he wanted to do it, and if he didn't there was no expectation that he should.

He would ask, "May I?", and I would gratefully answer, "Sure."

I got raked over the coals for letting a kid happily do something that helped instead of sitting in the corner being bored.

When I used to go to work with my father, I loved helping out. I could drag wires through spaces where no one else would fit. I remember spending a day jammed inside a roof bannging away with a hammer only inches from my face.

I got driving lessons on private land. "Okay, it's all yours. Don't drift off the track, or we'll go straight down a mineshaft." Child labor, or education?

What you have described is a personal experience, which I can't and wont argue against. If you say it was educational, and didn't violate your rights, then so be it.

My point still stands:

The use, and abuse of children within Scientology does occur, and shouldn't be tolerated. Or had a blind eye turned to it.

My point isn't that the use of children equals child abuse every single time. It has a lot to do with the purposes and motivations of the people doing it.

Neo
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
I’ve just caught up with this thread, which I appear to have missed somehow.

I was probably saying something stupid on other threads, trying to be funny.

Well, I don’t feel like being funny now. I feel sick. Sick and angry.

I don’t know which makes me the angrier. The callous disregard for the health and safety of others, especially children who are owed the protection of responsible adults, the sheer hypocrisy of this cult that demands that all it’s members own up to every piffling little indiscretion when it suits them, or the fact that they lie, cheat and threaten in order to cover up criminal acts of their own. And then they have the gall to tell us that the world is in moral decline and that they alone can rescue humanity.

Sometimes I joke about my experiences and the stupidity of Scientologists. I survived my experiences and it is all too easy to overlook the fact that some didn’t. Real people have been hurt and real lives have been lost or destroyed.

If you are a Scientologist and are reading this, ask yourself “Do I want to remain a part of an organisation that can treat people this way and never take responsibility for it’s own actions?” Or do you just think that “Bad things happen, we can’t be responsible for everyone.” If your ‘church’ cannot look after young children, how can they expect to save this planet?

Axiom142
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Axiom142, it wook me a while to realize it, but once I knew the org failed Ron's own "doubt formula", I saw no further reason to have anything to do with it.
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Still "actionable" - who knows?

Another cover up by OSA has recently come to light. This one though, is of a very sad nature and one that you'd need to brace yourself for before reading. I'm just going to give you the facts as I know them and will not make comment, for reasons that will become apparent.

First incident (mentioned in Feral's story)
Those in the Sydney field some years ago, will remember the incident when a little toddler was killed from an accident "on the stairs" of the org at Castelreagh St.

She was the daughter of two staff members on Fdn Org (the mum had recently left staff, cause she had just had a baby - one month old). The story or "line" given at the time, was that her father had taken her into the org that day, and was not watching over her, when she darted off, fell down the stairs, and later died. This line was widely promoted and was NOT true!

The father was on post, and the little fifteen month old girl was being minded in a room, with another little toddler, by a 14 year old with a broken arm (the "nanny"). The two toddlers left the room. One shot up the stairs, and the "nanny" chased after her. Meanwhile the little 15 month old toddler went down the stairs, tripped, rolled off the landing, fell through the minimal horizontal railing on the stairs, 20ft down the open stairwell, onto a terrazo floor, cracked her skull, suffered a massive brain damage and later died.

Second incident
About four years later, they had their son (4yrs) and two daughters (a 2 and a half yr old and an eight month old).

It was summer time. Potassium (a remedy for salt depletion as advised by LRH and CofS staff), was there "for the taking" to the family (the dad had worked in the org, and at Narconon, and was of the mind that "potassium" was a good solution for dehydration/salt depletion). Their daughter helped herself to the potassium when she was hot and bothered. This would not have been a problem if it was potassium gluconate that she took. But not so! She took potassium chloride (the very same administered by the org and Narconon) which was in the cupboard. All just cool and dandy supposedly. It's what the org and Narconon were administering on a daily basis. But get this, potassium chloride is what is given to stop the heart of condemned criminals (lethal injection). It's what this little girl took, and it killed her.

The already horrific scenario, was compounded by the State govt. authorities being suspect of the parents. They had already lost one child through their "reported" negligence. Now they had supposedly lost another, through same or ?. Why would these parents be letting their daughter take potassium chloride? The parents "couldn't" or "were forbidden" to tell that this is what their church was recommending for a "handling" of salt depletion and dehydration. The parents took the rap! Big time! Not only did the authorities blame them, but also the field bought the "lines" generated by OSA on their "supposed" negligence.

I went up to Newcastle to help at the time, at the father's request. Their eldest was being held in hospital, and went through gruelling tests, stomach pumps etc, in case the parents were trying to "kill him too". Their youngest ( an 8 month old baby) was taken from their care.

I heard both parents take calls from OSA the day after their daughter died. Both parents went through harrowing police interrogations, within 24 hours of losing their child. They were suspects for murder. They reportedly gave the police, the "lines" that OSA told them to give. They weren't allowed their kids back. They were being treated like criminals - I saw it at the cop station in Newcastle. I saw their heartbreak. Not only had they lost a second child, but now they were being treated as though they were her murderer, and they were being denied the care of their two remaining children. It was about a week before they were allowed to have them back.

We had the parents stay with us after this, and before the funeral of their second daughter. We were 'sheilding' them from the press, who wouldn't get off their doorstep at the time (we were already out of the CofS at this point). I helped the parents organise the funeral service. After the funeral service of their first daughter, the father was adament that this service would be one where friends and family would be allowed to grieve. The funeral service of their first daughter was changed by the AO Captain (unbeknownst to the parents), and was one where no eulogies were permitted, nor any grieving "allowed". The funeral service for their second daughter was held, and as you can imagine, one of the most beautiful, loving, but gut wrenching experiences ever.

In summary
How much extra pain through lack of support, did these two endure, because of the fucking OSA "lines" - "dad wasn't watching Lauren when she fell down the stairwell" and "mum and dad let their little one help herself to a major overdose of potassium".

These two very loving parents had to endure the loss of their two beautiful daughters, due to what I believe to be negligence on the part of the CofS. Any parent who loses a child, goes through the "what if's". The unfair and erroneously self imposed burden is always heavy. IMHO the CofS increased that burden 10 fold, by their "lines" and indoctrination to these parents (in order to "protect the church"), and due to the "lines" fed to others. What they desperately needed was love, care, understanding, compassion and support - this was denied them.

Fuck the CofS for this! To any lurkers, staff or OSA SO crew- step up! This story ALONE, is reason to walk away.

"This is ok"
(for those of you who don't know what this means - it's an attest that the above is true and correct!)
Carmel

Perhaps someone who knows ANZO law should look this whole thread over for things that could still be prosecuted. :confused2:

Roy/EP
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
,


Thanks for putting that out there Mum. I wasn't aware that any of this was the case at the time. I remember the parents staying with us, and the funeral (for their second child). I felt terrible for the parents at the time but I was made to believe it was neglect on their behalf. Now I see, how wrong I was.

The fact that the CoS can just shift the blame and not take responsibility for their actions makes me sick.

I'm not a parent and can not even imagine what it would be like to loose a child let alone two and then to be forced into a cover up and made to lie while going through such loss just baffles me. All at the same time having their peers, friends and people in the CoS believe it was all their fault.

I hope the parents realise this and do not blame themsleves for all that has gone down.

I send my love to you guys and hope you are doing well.

I tend to drop in and out, so sometimes I miss the actual important stuff.

Another staffer was a regular "nanny", where multiple fdn staff would drop their kids without a second thought. Now, being a day staffer, the only time she could get auditing was at night, and she asked me to watch these kids.

I would have been 19 at the time and here I was, in charge of over a dozen kids ranging from 6 weeks old to 12 years, on my own!

In that time I changed enough nappies, made up so many bottles of formula, and mopped up enough spat food to mean that I've never had the urge to reproduce. In that one year I did enough parenting to fulfill a lifetime.

I cannot imagine the horror I would have experienced if something like "Lauren" had happened to me. Not only should child-care licences be compulsory, but the more I look around me so should child-bearing licences.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
That story is heart-breaking ... many years ago the nanny's (two of them) took around 10 children to the beach for the day ... (Brighton I think) ... but they only returned with 9 ... one little boy (very blond and approx 8 years old) ... drowned.

I remember it as a 'PR flap' ... a little boy died that day and it was a 'PR flap' ...

:confused2:

This happened around 1978. The only thing I heard about it was from Elizabeth Collins, daughter of Lyn Collins, around 14 or 15 at the time. The parents were John and Paula Cronin. I believe Paula was SH FDN recruiter, and at the time John was in Estates, maybe as bus driver. I forget the kid's name. Elizabeth told me that two of their kids were in trouble in the sea, and she could only rescue one. She regretted the choice she made, as the one she saved was Alexander, widely knows at SH as a real trouble-maker (he was 10 or something), and the kid who died was not.

Paul
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
a gal named Paula Quigley, from 18 until 50 or so she devoted her life to scientology, and was last in NY area, living in one of those basements that are converted to create 8 stalls for bunks..for NY Org staff members.

She died of lung cancer.
During her last days an ex scientologist that posts on the boards went to visit her.

He sat there during her last days in a hospice, as she tried to handle his "disagreements with scientology" and he 'let her'...

No scientologists came by to bid farwell, not one.

----------------

A guy I knew, a tough guy, worked in the engine room on the Bolivar, named Ed Brewer, rode a motorcycle... I really liked him, he taught me how to use a welder.

Years later, he had an accident on his bike, and was bleeding, the sea org guys argued about whether to call the police or the ambulance and avoiding a "PR Flap" while Ed Bewer watched his blood run into the gutter.

He died.
There was no reason.
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
More data would be nice...

a gal named Paula Quigley, from 18 until 50 or so she devoted her life to scientology, and was last in NY area, living in one of those basements that are converted to create 8 stalls for bunks..for NY Org staff members.

She died of lung cancer.
During her last days an ex scientologist that posts on the boards went to visit her.

He sat there during her last days in a hospice, as she tried to handle his "disagreements with scientology" and he 'let her'...

No scientologists came by to bid farwell, not one.

----------------
...deleted text...
QUOTE]

Arnie, do you know the building and about how long ago was this? Sad, but typical I'd say. :grouch:

Roy/EP
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
She died 5 years ago? has it been that long..

In the 70's when NY Org was on W 74th St, there was a brownstone a block west, across columbus, about 3/4's the way down, on the north side of street, the basement was little cubicles... I mean it looked like a shanty town.. I think 6 or 8 staff at NY had a 5ft x 8 ft 'space'. 2 x 4's draped with sheets to make the 'rooms' . I did not do a head count.. I do recall marveling at the situation...it might of been at the same place in the block a couple of blocks further uptown..but not past 80th... sorry, it was (counting years..) 33 years ago..im having trouble placing it precisely..
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Before my scio time...

She died 5 years ago? has it been that long..

In the 70's when NY Org was on W 74th St, there was a brownstone a block west, across columbus, about 3/4's the way down, on the north side of street, the basement was little cubicles... I mean it looked like a shanty town.. I think 6 or 8 staff at NY had a 5ft x 8 ft 'space'. 2 x 4's draped with sheets to make the 'rooms' . I did not do a head count.. I do recall marveling at the situation...it might of been at the same place in the block a couple of blocks further uptown..but not past 80th... sorry, it was (counting years..) 33 years ago..im having trouble placing it precisely..

Thanks, Arnie - that was before my time in the CoS. Sounds perfectly dreadful, kinda like OOT berthing at ITO only worse. :bigcry:

Roy/Ep
 
Top