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MICHEL - CANCER AND SUICIDE ON SOLO NOTS

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
This is shocking information. I hope you gave this info to Xenophon, as well. Mary

AM...your idea is excellent, but the data will have to first be developed under strict medical and scientific controls before it can be evaluated or presented.

Right now, it falls under what is referred to in pathological research as "anecdotal" --and therefore not given any scientific weight or credibility.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but even if 100 NOTS completions in a row were afflicted with cancer, it would necessarily be linked to Scientology at all, but to other factors of diet, compromised physiology (overweight,smoker, etc.) environmental exposures, genetic predispositions or other variables.

I share your passion for wanting evidence to be amassed and presented. But it will have to be done with protocols if it is to be compelling.

I have been watching along with you and all our friends here this kind of information being accumulated over the years. It is very valuable to do so, but there is no science yet attached to it as an anti-scientology strategy.

Let's hope it develops soon....with whatever truthful conclusion it reaches, whether that has anything to do with Scientology or not.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
That's true for me too, Ted.
I sometimes liken travelling the Bridge to running a very arduous obstacle course.
You end up back where you started, the key difference between being at the Start Line and arriving at the Finish Line is that you now know you can do it. I've written about this elsewhere on ESMB.


Damn right!

The mental/spiritual exercises of running processes is much like physical exercises of which there are many. As with physical exercises, the rule of use it or lose it is in play with mental/spiritual exercises. As with physical exercise, it is not enough to just think it can be done. A being has to actually run the course.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I'm inclined to think the general conditions of doing OT VII is a very suppressive environment, and that is the the cause of problems. Havn't heard of anyone doing solo nots outside the COS getting cancer.

You are absolutely right Terril. DM is suppressing the OT levels by all means!

Michel

If Miscavige were not suppressing the OT levels, and there were 10 times as many people doing OT 3 and NOTs, would there be more or fewer sick and dying people?

I've known several outside the CofS NOTs auditors who've become ill with cancer - usually in their 50s, and died. Even Bill Robertson, founder of the largest outside the CofS group (Ron's Orgs), died of cancer at age 55.

I can recall - before NOTs was developed, and before Miscavige came along - being surprised by the number of people, who had done OT 3, who were sick. This was rationalized, at the time, by me, as indicating either their PTSness (but, in retrospect, to whom? Hubbard?), or indicating the "power of the tech," and that a slight error could be dangerous or deadly in such powerful tech. Afterall, this was the tech that was removing the final barrier to full OT and actually making full OTs - meaning OTs who could do things, travel anywhere n the universe, move physical objects with intention, heal at a distance, or even let loose with a lightening bolt, if necessary, to handle an SP.

Sounds silly doesn't it? It was silly.

But that's the way it was.

In the mid 1960s, after the release of the Clearing Course (with tremendous fanfare), it was promoted and believed that this would remove the final barrier to full OT, and if anyone can locate 'Success Stories' from that time, it was typical for a new 'Clear' to believe that he/she was "just around the corner" from becoming full OT. There was, after all, no more Bank, and now it was simply a matter of drilling OT abilities, such as in 'Route 1' from 'Creation of Human Ability'.

John McMaster became the "first real Clear," and toured, including making TV appearances. He made a very good impression and brought thousands of people into Scientology. http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=347640&postcount=4

I've heard that some time later, Hubbard issued certs for himself and had them posted on the wall at St. HIll, announcing that he was - really - the first real Clear. That his becoming Clear preceded McMaster's. A minor detail, but curious, as around the same time Hubbard released OT 2 - which looked like the Clearing Course part two. (Thus taking the wind, somewhat, out of McMaster's sails.)

Soon after came OT 3, and Hubbard revised his theories further (in the Class 8 course), explaining that the Clearing Course, OT 2, and OT 3, were different phases of the Incident 2 from 75 millions years ago, and that the dates on CC and OT 2 were implanted (false) dates, the actual date being 75 million years ago. (Incident 1, of course, was 4 quadrillion years ago.)

Meanwhile, dedicated upper level Scientologists were doing their best to avoid the "agonized (trillions of years) future" depicted by Hubbard in his 'KSW' of 1965, and, with non-manby pamby fixed glare, progress on his "Bridge to Total Freedom."

Here are some views of someone who was on the original Class 8 course:

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=77530&postcount=18

Just posting this, as some info, for anyone who may believes that the main problem is that "tech is out in Orgs."
 

HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
The majority of the 800 Purple tags and 1,500 Black tags are with cancer.

I was talking to an ex the other day. When he was still on lines with the CofS of the 10 NOTS completions that he knew, 3 had died, 4 had nearly died and the other 3 weren't doing well in life. Not very good stats!
:ohmy: I had no idea how high the stats were. So the few of us here on ESMB that survived OT7 and are cancer free and actually doing well are the small minority?? Holy Cow.
 
I fall in line with Dart.

My feeling is that ARC breaking spiritual teammates, guardian angels, whatever you want to call them, can very highly negatively affect your health.
 

Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
Thanks so much for all this data. There is not enough of this around.

For me I always had this caution when it cam e to OTVII it did not really appeal to me to be honest having finished OTV I felt that was it for me.
I am now so happy that I did not go further.

I saw it in OTVIIs I knew that this level seemed to cause more problems than anything else. Apart from cancer I have seen other medical problems and this bothered me, which for sure played a part in me not being to excited about moving more on the Bridge.PPHHEEWWW.

Keep up the great posts:thumbsup:
 

Rae

Patron with Honors
In November 2006 the OT7 EP was "Cause over Life" wathever that means. At one point one would not find anymore BTs and would simply F/N. Simple as that.

Then, there would be the EP check cycle. But this is another story.

How many times do we have to make sure that there is no more BTs in one's case?

Impossible to say, from what LRH says, the Universe is full of them.

We are not done yet with them.

Business is business

It's good to be free!:happydance:

Michel.

Hi Michel,

When I finished OTVll in 2003, I, nor no one I know, ever attested to "cause over life". That this was the promoted EP came from the grade chart and promo. (I'm not sure if it's on the grade chart now). I remember being in the examiner's booth and shown the card with the EP and was pretty shocked with what read as something like "no more BTs or clusters found". Same basically as OTlll. I thought I was done with those little fellers...then OTVlll, the biggest shocker of all with "I now know who I am not and am ready to find out who I am" something along those lines. Excuse me? What was I just doing for the last 13 years on Solo Nots??

By the way, I know several OTVs, 2 in the last year that died of cancer.

Michel, you left in 2006, 4 years ago. I just want to clarify that you data is 4 yrs old right? Or is this more recent data from someone you're in touch with. Valuable just the same but I am curious.
 

Feral

Rogue male
I was talking to an ex the other day. When he was still on lines with the CofS of the 10 NOTS completions that he knew, 3 had died, 4 had nearly died and the other 3 weren't doing well in life. Not very good stats!


Sign up for your Solo Nots NAO!

"Insist on only standard tech". Norman Starkey on some lame tech film ad.
 

Michel

Patron with Honors
Hi Michel,

When I finished OTVll in 2003, I, nor no one I know, ever attested to "cause over life". That this was the promoted EP came from the grade chart and promo. (I'm not sure if it's on the grade chart now). I remember being in the examiner's booth and shown the card with the EP and was pretty shocked with what read as something like "no more BTs or clusters found". Same basically as OTlll. I thought I was done with those little fellers...then OTVlll, the biggest shocker of all with "I now know who I am not and am ready to find out who I am" something along those lines. Excuse me? What was I just doing for the last 13 years on Solo Nots??

By the way, I know several OTVs, 2 in the last year that died of cancer.

Michel, you left in 2006, 4 years ago. I just want to clarify that you data is 4 yrs old right? Or is this more recent data from someone you're in touch with. Valuable just the same but I am curious.

Hello Rae, You are right "Cause over life" is the EP shown in the grade chart.
The technical EP, in November 2006, was F/Ns while assesing the buttons, which would mean "no more BTs"....again!? Look like OT3 isn't?

Right man, what did you do during 13 years on solo nots, and before on OT5 and OT4 and OT3???

Just joking!:yes:

It's a shame, i know. This BT story doesn't make any sense. LRH says that the Universe is full of them.:omg:

Michel.
 

Michel

Patron with Honors
Thanks so much for all this data. There is not enough of this around.

For me I always had this caution when it cam e to OTVII it did not really appeal to me to be honest having finished OTV I felt that was it for me.
I am now so happy that I did not go further.

I saw it in OTVIIs I knew that this level seemed to cause more problems than anything else. Apart from cancer I have seen other medical problems and this bothered me, which for sure played a part in me not being to excited about moving more on the Bridge.PPHHEEWWW.

Keep up the great posts:thumbsup:

You made the right decision Illegal alien and you saved your life.:yes:

Michel.
 

Michel

Patron with Honors
If Miscavige were not suppressing the OT levels, and there were 10 times as many people doing OT 3 and NOTs, would there be more or fewer sick and dying people?

I've known several outside the CofS NOTs auditors who've become ill with cancer - usually in their 50s, and died. Even Bill Robertson, founder of the largest outside the CofS group (Ron's Orgs), died of cancer at age 55.

I can recall - before NOTs was developed, and before Miscavige came along - being surprised by the number of people, who had done OT 3, who were sick. This was rationalized, at the time, by me, as indicating either their PTSness (but, in retrospect, to whom? Hubbard?), or indicating the "power of the tech," and that a slight error could be dangerous or deadly in such powerful tech. Afterall, this was the tech that was removing the final barrier to full OT and actually making full OTs - meaning OTs who could do things, travel anywhere n the universe, move physical objects with intention, heal at a distance, or even let loose with a lightening bolt, if necessary, to handle an SP.

Sounds silly doesn't it? It was silly.

But that's the way it was.

In the mid 1960s, after the release of the Clearing Course (with tremendous fanfare), it was promoted and believed that this would remove the final barrier to full OT, and if anyone can locate 'Success Stories' from that time, it was typical for a new 'Clear' to believe that he/she was "just around the corner" from becoming full OT. There was, after all, no more Bank, and now it was simply a matter of drilling OT abilities, such as in 'Route 1' from 'Creation of Human Ability'.

John McMaster became the "first real Clear," and toured, including making TV appearances. He made a very good impression and brought thousands of people into Scientology. http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=347640&postcount=4

I've heard that some time later, Hubbard issued certs for himself and had them posted on the wall at St. HIll, announcing that he was - really - the first real Clear. That his becoming Clear preceded McMaster's. A minor detail, but curious, as around the same time Hubbard released OT 2 - which looked like the Clearing Course part two. (Thus taking the wind, somewhat, out of McMaster's sails.)

Soon after came OT 3, and Hubbard revised his theories further (in the Class 8 course), explaining that the Clearing Course, OT 2, and OT 3, were different phases of the Incident 2 from 75 millions years ago, and that the dates on CC and OT 2 were implanted (false) dates, the actual date being 75 million years ago. (Incident 1, of course, was 4 quadrillion years ago.)

Meanwhile, dedicated upper level Scientologists were doing their best to avoid the "agonized (trillions of years) future" depicted by Hubbard in his 'KSW' of 1965, and, with non-manby pamby fixed glare, progress on his "Bridge to Total Freedom."

Here are some views of someone who was on the original Class 8 course:

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=77530&postcount=18

Just posting this, as some info, for anyone who may believes that the main problem is that "tech is out in Orgs."

Thanks a lot Veda for the historical data. Now that i am out i can see the whole picture. The problem with a genius like LRH is that he used is genius to enslave people rather than just letting them alone.

He isn't God. :no:

Michel
 

MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
Thanks a lot Veda for the historical data. Now that i am out i can see the whole picture. The problem with a genius like LRH is that he used is genius to enslave people rather than just letting them alone.

He isn't God. :no:

Michel

That's exacly why, even by acknowledging some usefull tech in Scientology, I cannot go along with LRH the Saviour.

It is better to turn to Knowledgism, Idenics, TIR, etc... if Scientology is unable to evolve by dropping LRH with all his egocentric madness and suppressive policies.
 

MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
Let's not forget another excellent victim of LRH's NOTs: his own wife Mary Sue Hubbard, who died of breast cancer in 2002.

R.I.P.
 

Michel

Patron with Honors
That's exacly why, even by acknowledging some usefull tech in Scientology, I cannot go along with LRH the Saviour.

It is better to turn to Knowledgism, Idenics, TIR, etc... if Scientology is unable to evolve by dropping LRH with all his egocentric madness and suppressive policies.

That is true my friend, Scientology is over. I was Christian before knowing Scientology. I made the whole circle from pubic Auditor cl5 ot7 to Sea Org Member and my conclusion is that i have been betrayed by a Cult.:angry:

Now, i am back to the beginning.

There is only One God.

And that is the One i respect.

Michel.
 

Mrs Pattycake

Patron with Honors
First of all a belated welcome to you Michel - it is great to have you here ! I was on OTVII from 1996 till 2007 when I comped :duh:

I might of seen you when you first went on post as a D of P as there were two years between my last two visits.

My D of P's were usually great folk and I understood that it was a pretty hard post.

Anyway this information you have provided is very valuable and I think it should be known loudly and clearly how many OTVII's were/are having serious trouble.

I know that both Kev and I found, after several years, that OTVII was very introverting. You go into session 3 to 6 times a day always "looking in" or close to your body. You are constantly looking for "outpoints", things "to get rid" of, things "to handle".

If something good is happening in your life, then you validate the TECH. If something is less than perfect, it is always because you are not applying the tech correctly or because of some influence from a BT that you have failed as yet to handle.

Whenever you go into session you have to handle every out rud from between sessions. You have to handle every critical thought and pull your overts and witholds ...so you are looking for what you or some BT did wrong.

All this constant introversion is not good. Constant focus on negative influences, bad thoughts, unwanted pains and even imagined causes of these. Doing this daily, many times a day, year after year. Along with the pressure to perform in an "OT" manner - donating to all Scn causes, paying for the level, doing your participation for OT eligibilty, being on course, working hard enough to earn enough money, juggling your family commitments, FSMing and then eating enough stuff to be sessionable 3 to 6 times a day - with no time to exercise or even have leisure time ...the guilt you suppress because infact you are no where near the level of ability that you expected ( err... what you were told / sold ) as an "OT" on this all powerful level ... all of this is enough to make anyone sick !!!

Since departing the C of S bubble - I am amazed at how many self help and spiritual enlightment books consider the road to greater self / spiritual improvement and health, is just simply focusing on the positive things in life, putting attention on the now ( rather than the past which OTVII is obsessed with ), imagining what YOU want and creating it ( not handling or getting rid of stuff ) and hey ... they cost less than $ 30 !!!

Another thing ... OT VII is delivered with such seriousness and with so much pretense of exactness and accuracy by people who look so dedicated, important and all knowing - the average solo nots auditor is also in constant fear of fucking up ! It is hard to shatter all of that illusion and realise that its all been a crock of S*#t.:omg:

What were we thinking !!! :duh:
 

Michel

Patron with Honors
First of all a belated welcome to you Michel - it is great to have you here ! I was on OTVII from 1996 till 2007 when I comped :duh:

I might of seen you when you first went on post as a D of P as there were two years between my last two visits.

My D of P's were usually great folk and I understood that it was a pretty hard post.

Anyway this information you have provided is very valuable and I think it should be known loudly and clearly how many OTVII's were/are having serious trouble.

I know that both Kev and I found, after several years, that OTVII was very introverting. You go into session 3 to 6 times a day always "looking in" or close to your body. You are constantly looking for "outpoints", things "to get rid" of, things "to handle".

If something good is happening in your life, then you validate the TECH. If something is less than perfect, it is always because you are not applying the tech correctly or because of some influence from a BT that you have failed as yet to handle.

Whenever you go into session you have to handle every out rud from between sessions. You have to handle every critical thought and pull your overts and witholds ...so you are looking for what you or some BT did wrong.

All this constant introversion is not good. Constant focus on negative influences, bad thoughts, unwanted pains and even imagined causes of these. Doing this daily, many times a day, year after year. Along with the pressure to perform in an "OT" manner - donating to all Scn causes, paying for the level, doing your participation for OT eligibilty, being on course, working hard enough to earn enough money, juggling your family commitments, FSMing and then eating enough stuff to be sessionable 3 to 6 times a day - with no time to exercise or even have leisure time ...the guilt you suppress because infact you are no where near the level of ability that you expected ( err... what you were told / sold ) as an "OT" on this all powerful level ... all of this is enough to make anyone sick !!!

Since departing the C of S bubble - I am amazed at how many self help and spiritual enlightment books consider the road to greater self / spiritual improvement and health, is just simply focusing on the positive things in life, putting attention on the now ( rather than the past which OTVII is obsessed with ), imagining what YOU want and creating it ( not handling or getting rid of stuff ) and hey ... they cost less than $ 30 !!!

Another thing ... OT VII is delivered with such seriousness and with so much pretense of exactness and accuracy by people who look so dedicated, important and all knowing - the average solo nots auditor is also in constant fear of fucking up ! It is hard to shatter all of that illusion and realise that its all been a crock of S*#t.:omg:

What were we thinking !!! :duh:

Dear Mrs Pattycake, nice to meet you!

I fully understand you.

It's tough to realize that we just had to put our attention on positive things rather than negative ones.

But, from Book One up to OT7 it's all negativeness, engrams, BTs, etc...For sure, if one put his attention on negative things, he will get negative things.

Reversely, if one put put his attention on positive things that's what he is going to get, positive things.

I am ashamed to confess that i did the same mistake as you and others.

I believed in a False Savior, LRH and his "son" DM.:duh:

Never again! Never again!

Michel.
 

Chess

Patron with Honors
I know several solo nots public that have gotten cancer.

But given Scientologies claims the incidence of these things should be less than normal or close to zero, which it isn't.

Nor should any person on the level feel the need to shooot their business partner and then themselves.

So why follow this bridge if these are the results?

There's an old saying:
If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck - it's a duck!
Buggar knows why it takes so much to find out the obvious - NOTS & S/NOTS are an unworkable series of expensive balderdash. But then again so are a great many business ventures.
The common demoniator of S/NOTS as far as I can make out is dissapointment.
You are right, to follow that Bridge is to enter into a bad result, a bad duck indeed.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Thanks a lot Veda for the historical data. Now that i am out i can see the whole picture. The problem with a genius like LRH is that he used is genius to enslave people rather than just letting them alone.

He isn't God. :no:

Michel
I can't see anything in Hubbard that I could call genius.
 
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