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I have a new opinion about ESMB

freet43

Patron with Honors
Emma,

I too am appalled at what goes on on those lists at times.... and, actually rarely visit them....

and, I've had the exact same ideas as you were just having...

however, I'll mention a couple of points.

Many of the people that have the time to hang out on those lists are not actively doing much of anything in the FZ and are hardly reflective of the vast majority of Freezoners I know.

It has also not made sense to me why certain senior terminals cannot just use the tech and handle their situations privately, one on one, and not air dirty laundry and personal gripes on public lists.

Nor does it make sense to me why others come forward and take sides and blah blah on and on - rather than telling them to take it off the list and handle the damn situation.

I have my own observations and perceptions of why it is usually the same folks that get themselves in to those predicaments, but I'll keep my opinions to myself.

Suffice it to say, that none of us are perfect.

Marina


You've made the point better than I did.

Dex, I know you took this very personally and I'm sorry you are upset. I've said to you in the past that out of anyone who still audits Scientology tech I respect you the most. This is still true.

I'm a hot head basically. I knew that if I posted what I posted, when I posted it, I'd most likely piss a lot of people off but at the time I didn't care. I was just so angry and frustrated at what I've seen recently that I had to say something or I was gunna explode. My stress levels are at an all time high right now and I really should take a weeks vacation somewhere.

If I could write my post all over again (which I won't because I don't believe in revisionism) I think I'd say something a bit less polarizing and calmer, but my beliefs would be the same.

I TRULY don't understand how someone like yourself, who openly states that you take bits & pieces of the tech, plus added bits from elsewhere, who doesn't do the Hubbard abuses can call yourself a Scientologist. I also don't understand how you (and others in that group) can continue to allow the most outrageous bullshit to be carried on whilst holding yourselves up to some unachievable (Scn bullshit) standards.

I believe you are just like me. You see some stuff in Scientology that you think works. Well hold on to your hat, coz so do I. I actually like some bits & pieces of Scientology (most likely the bits Hubbard stole but nevertheless my introduction to them was through Scientology). I was a trained Class V auditor in Scientology and also a trained Sup. I was on staff for 8 years and I was pretty good at auditing and suping. I knew my stuff. But I would never hang a Scn FZ shingle up and audit because what I'd be auditing and how I do it could not be called Scientology and I wouldn't want the label anyway.

Per Hubbard himself, a Scientologist is a KSW adherent. If you are not this then don't call yourself one (IMHO).

The reason I got so upset wasn't really because of what Terril wrote about my husband on his yahoo list. I was because I saw so much natter and blame & make wrong in just a page of posts that i was flabbergasted. Here I was on a yahoo list of people who claim to be Scientologists and I didn't see ANY Scientology being used. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing but it did make me mad.

I admit my initial reaction was "These guys are no better because they've left Scientology or because they are still in Scientology, yet we get constant "success stories" and Pollyanna type reviews coming out of the FZ that it all looked to me like a pack of PR lies".

On my board in the last week I've seen covert operations to "out" a woman (twice) by senior personal in your Freezone. The woman outed (also a senoir member of your freezone) has been acting crazy and telling lies about me on someone else's blog to garner sympathy. Then I see all manner of personal & private information being posted about me and others that was likely unethical and sensitive on the Yahoo list and I think "Fuck, these folk are insane".

But what it really is, is that you aren't insane, you are JUST LIKE EVERYBODY else. Some of you are smart & kind and ethical and some of you are mean & vindictive and batshit crazy, but if you all call yourselves FZ Scientologists then you are all coming under the one umbrella and it gives the impression that the whole group is crazy in times like these.

This has probably come across as garbled and jumbled but I'm not about to rewrite it. I hope I've communicated what I wanted to say. If not I'll try again in another post.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
I hope Dex is still reading this thread.

I did take the time to read over all of this before entering the fray.

Emma has admitted that she was hot-headed at the time of her offending post, and it would be dishonest of any of us to claim that we've never felt pissed about something.

I do not consider myself a Scnist, and I wish there were a way of losing the "EX" label as well, but it's like Harvey the boat-builder--you only have to fuck one sheep and the label sticks with you for life (and probably will find its way onto your tombstone as well).

The point has been adequately made that if you're using bits of Scn and other assorted ideas as well, then you are NOT being a Scnist, your are mixing practices--something to which I have no objection. Even in the huge pile of garbage we call modern medicine there are bits that actually do what they claim, so why not use them?

If we all agreed all the time, life would be so boring that we'ld all want to kill ourselves. So, please Dex, chill out and accept that some personal opinions will always clash but people can Agree to Disagree.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Unfortunately this is true (that people think that). But I don't. I speak for myself. For years I didn't. I shut up and remained neutral and I think that was the right thing to do at the time.

But now I will say what I think and people will just have to learn that my opinion is not a "board" opinion because its impossible for a board to have an opinion anyway.

Just one last thought on the FZ success stories forum being closed.

Why should the FZ have their own success stories forum when TIR, Idenics, Knowledgism etc do not?

People pay money each year to have this forum ad free. This is so we don't have to put up with Google ads etc. So why have I let the FZ have cart blanche on free advertising for 4 years? I dunno. I think I need my head read.

These " otherisms" for want of a better word should also, have
their successes posted.
 
Thats a lie. I tried to get you both to some sort of reconciliation
and neither of you were willing.

You are a liar. I speak as a friend of both of you around 8 years.
bb

No, BB it is NOT a lie. Aida is perfectly willing to communicate with you. Although if you go around calling her a liar she is well within her rights to retract that offer. She has also expressed a willingness to communicate with TO. She has not agreed to deal with both of you simultaneously on a basis established by YOU.

Why you believe yourself to be competent to handle delicate "chaplain" cycles is utterly beyond my understanding. You have CONSISTENTLY the WORST sense of tact, diplomacy, or judgement as regards sensitive communications of anyone I ever seen. :duh:

You REALLY REALLY need to put this one to bed, BB. You are NOT helping matters at all with your constant public harping. :no:


Mark A. Baker :eyeroll:
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
These " otherisms" for want of a better word should also, have
their successes posted.

I completely disagree.

I think we've seen enough marketing and exploitation and Terril, you've (again) missed the boat completely and failed to see why Emma took the Success Stories down in the first place.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
These " otherisms" for want of a better word should also, have
their successes posted.

Why? And why here? Says who?

I've got an idea.....

Why don't you guys start a REAL forum...not a closed off Yahoo group that nobody can find or read, and start acting like professionals who do a professional job.

You can still have a members only section where you have to be logged on to read, and you can chose to approve memberships or not.

You can post your success stories and other rah rah all you like in the public section and you can do your nattering in the closed section that only members can read.

That way the threads are easy to follow and people can become more engaged. You could have advertising sections and tech discussion sections and just make it a freezone heaven.

My only other suggestion would be that you NOT run it. Let someone with judgement run it like Dexter or Marina (if they are interested) or even Fluffy (although she's already got one to run).
 

dianaclass8

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thats a lie. I tried to get you both to some sort of reconciliation
and neither of you were willing.

You are a liar. I speak as a friend of both of you around 8 years.
bb

BB you have no shame your overt speaks loudly in accusation. You must suffering from Alzsheismer.

She wasn't willing, I was, you asked me if I would agree to a chaplain court and I said yes, it never happened. Same with Pierre, you asked me the same and neither one confronted me, instead they went hiding in fake nicks insulting and saying the most outrageous things and blatant lies about me all over the internet.

TO has a long history of provoking others. I didn't feel like having someone like that in my life.

TO has been upset over an injustice done by Management about 30 years ago and she mistakenly thought that I had something to do with that.

Despite her provocations for many years I remained silent and you and others encouraged her to be reactive and vindictive and not only you did not keep this private but made the whole thing public. For what purpose?

And as a result of your lack of discreet; undesirable events unfolded. Things went out of proportion where it could have been handled with simple communication.
 

dianaclass8

Silver Meritorious Patron
No, BB it is NOT a lie. Aida is perfectly willing to communicate with you. Although if you go around calling her a liar she is well within her rights to retract that offer. She has also expressed a willingness to communicate with TO. She has not agreed to deal with both of you simultaneously on a basis established by YOU.

Why you believe yourself to be competent to handle delicate "chaplain" cycles is utterly beyond my understanding. You have CONSISTENTLY the WORST sense of tact, diplomacy, or judgement as regards sensitive communications of anyone I ever seen. :duh:

You REALLY REALLY need to put this one to bed, BB. You are NOT helping matters at all with your constant public harping. :no:


Mark A. Baker :eyeroll:

I didn't see this posting before you said it and you said it well. BB needs to end cycle and move on.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
No, BB it is NOT a lie. Aida is perfectly willing to communicate with you. Although if you go around calling her a liar she is well within her rights to retract that offer. She has also expressed a willingness to communicate with TO. She has not agreed to deal with both of you simultaneously on a basis established by YOU.

Why you believe yourself to be competent to handle delicate "chaplain" cycles is utterly beyond my understanding. You have CONSISTENTLY the WORST sense of tact, diplomacy, or judgement as regards sensitive communications of anyone I ever seen. :duh:

You REALLY REALLY need to put this one to bed, BB. You are NOT helping matters at all with your constant public harping. :no:


Mark A. Baker :eyeroll:

Geez! Mark. Veda is going to have a fit!

Aida is probably willing to talk to me you say. Last we spoke she said she wasn't. Accept you have later info.

Really over the moon she is willing to talk to TO!

Never been able to get that on.

Dunno if TO would wish to talk to Diana.

If this will work bring it on! :)
 

dianaclass8

Silver Meritorious Patron
Geez! Mark. Veda is going to have a fit!

Aida is probably willing to talk to me you say. Last we spoke she said she wasn't. Accept you have later info.

Really over the moon she is willing to talk to TO!

Never been able to get that on.

Dunno if TO would wish to talk to Diana.

If this will work bring it on! :)

Call me and you'll see...call me all of you on ESMB!!!:happydance:
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
dianaclass8 said:
This is exactly what is going on and it blew out of proportion to the point of ridiculousness...

I want to make clear, that despite all the flame wars between TO and me my comm lines are and have always been opened to her and to anyone else for that matter.

Diana

Thats a lie. I tried to get you both to some sort of reconciliation
and neither of you were willing.

You are a liar. I speak as a friend of both of you around 8 years.
bb

Consummate meddling. :gossip: :clap:
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
I seriously want to thank all of you for talking this out. I am not kidding. You can't PR your way to understanding. You can fight and claw your way to it, though, my experience.
We all love each other at the end, anyway. But part of love in this game is making fun out of circumstances, however that happens. Oui? At any rate my appreciation for the FZ is WAY up! :thumbsup:
 
I seriously want to thank all of you for talking this out. I am not kidding. You can't PR your way to understanding. You can fight and claw your way to it, though, my experience.
We all love each other at the end, anyway. But part of love in this game is making fun out of circumstances, however that happens. Oui? At any rate my appreciation for the FZ is WAY up! :thumbsup:

You'ld be surprised at just how entertaining it can be. The old "Dynasty" series had nothing to compare. :drama:


Mark A. Baker
 
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