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The Edge interview with high level scientology defector (Bill Franks)

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Bill Franks came over in that interview as a calm and collected person who knows what he's talking about. I find it unlikely that he would drop such a bombshell without being sure of it's veracity.

Marty Rathbun also comes across as calm and collected. It doesn't mean a thing.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Bill Franks: "..about three in the morning, and of course, I was Director of Training, and Mayo was the Senior C/S and we were both in his room, and, ahhh, on the tween decks, on the Apollo, and a messenger came down with a dispatch from Hubbard. What the, what the dispatch said totally amazed both of us. What is said, essentially was:

"People don't leave, in his words "blow,"
They don't blow due to overts and witholds,
they blow when they are ARC Broken."

That means affinity, reality, communication are broken, that means when they are upset in non scientology terms. Just plain upset.

He said, You, Franks and Mayo are never to speak a word of this to anyone, if anyone were to find out, I would lose control of all of our public and all of our organizations." and then a few other threats and "best Ron"...

(Tom Smith comment omitted as it went right back to this)

Mayo and I looked at one another, and this whole thing, it holds together, 80% at least, is the basic premise of all Scientology, at least 80%, and Here he (Hubbard) is just blithely saying

"It's all bullshit guys"

We were absolutely flabbergasted,

Tom Smith: Do you recall who the messenger was?

Yeah, Clair Popam.(spelling?)

-------------------
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Different person, different motives.

A lot of people have got to the top management level in Scn because they are ruthless scumbags who would lie at the drop of a hat. Out of all the big defectors so far I would trust Larry Brennan and to a large extent Jesse Prince but the rest I don't trust very much. Somebody like Rinder and Rathbun I would not want to be in the same room with.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

Unfortunately I'm not stunned. It's of my *opinion* that there are several bodies lying around this planet that were put there because of their involvement with Scientology and possibly not the ones we talk about daily.

I agree. I can't say for sure anyone was killed but I don't find it the least bit surprising.

It's been a while since I was in the SO, but I do remember that there were no limits to what you were expected to do. And that was on the bottom of the food chain. I can just imagine what it must have been like for GO personnel when the orders were supposedly coming directly from Hubbard.

I mean, why wouldn't he order people to be killed? It was set up so that he would never take the fall for anything his minions did. He was a paranoid nutcase who even made public declarations that "destroying suppressives" was "ethical". It pretty much stands to reason that this is exactly what he would do.

I think, as crazy as some of this sounds, that we may never know the half of it.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

I agree. I can't say for sure anyone was killed but I don't find it the least bit surprising.

It's been a while since I was in the SO, but I do remember that there were no limits to what you were expected to do. And that was on the bottom of the food chain. I can just imagine what it must have been like for GO personnel when the orders were supposedly coming directly from Hubbard.

I mean, why wouldn't he order people to be killed? It was set up so that he would never take the fall for anything his minions did. He was a paranoid nutcase who even made public declarations that "destroying suppressives" was "ethical". It pretty much stands to reason that this is exactly what he would do.

I think, as crazy as some of this sounds, that we may never know the half of it.

Try coming up with a short list of British MPs he would want to kill and why and let's find out what happened to them.

I really can't believe how people here can fall for this bullshit.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

I really can't believe how people here can fall for this bullshit.

I'm not too clear about this. Did Bill Franks say he KNEW a British MP was killed by someone for the CofS, or did he say he READ in some internal memo that a British MP was killed by someone for the CofS?

Paul
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

I'm not too clear about this. Did Bill Franks say he KNEW a British MP was killed by someone for the CofS, or did he say he READ in some internal memo that a British MP was killed by someone for the CofS?

Paul

IIRC he said he knew.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

It would be nice if he would tell us more.

To be fair on him, he could just be repeating bullshit. There was a lot of bullshit going around. The Sea Org members even thought that LRH had special powers. It would not surprise me if he heard or had read stories along those lines as well. All bullshit spread by and believed by cult idiots.

I challenge anyone to find an MP more worthy of murder by Scientology than Kenneth Robinson. He sued the Church for libel and won in 1973 and got a lot of money out of it. Which British MP can beat that record around that time to be deserving of being murdered? And, of course, he wasn't murdered. He lived to be 84 years old and died in 1996.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Robinson
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

To be fair on him, he could just be repeating bullshit. There was a lot of bullshit going around. The Sea Org members even thought that LRH had special powers. It would not surprise me if he heard or had read stories along those lines as well. All bullshit spread by and believed by cult idiots.

That could be so, but at the level he was operating at and with the access he had to information, it could also not be so. I'm keeping an open mind.

I challenge anyone to find an MP more worthy of murder by Scientology than Kenneth Robinson. He sued the Church for libel and won in 1973 and got a lot of money out of it. Which British MP can beat that record around that time to be deserving of being murdered? And, of course, he wasn't murdered. He lived to be 84 years old and died in 1996.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Robinson

So far it's looking like there's nothing to go on, I agree.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

So far it's looking like there's nothing to go on, I agree.

It's all searchable on the Internet. This can give a few clues:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_in_the_United_Kingdom

... and especially this guy who was an East Grinstead MP opposed to Scientology (Geoffrey Johnson-Smith MP) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_in_the_United_Kingdom#Geoffrey_Johnson-Smith_MP

... but he died in 2010 aged 86.
 
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Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

It's all searchable on the Internet. This can give a few clues:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_in_the_United_Kingdom

... and especially this guy who was an East Grinstead MP opposed to Scientology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_in_the_United_Kingdom#Geoffrey_Johnson-Smith_MP

... but he died in 2010 aged 86.

Maybe it was fiendishly clever slow-acting poison, engineered to cause death 2 or 3 seconds before they would have died anyway. Homo Novis are way ahead of us, remember.
 
Bill Franks: "..about three in the morning, and of course, I was Director of Training, and Mayo was the Senior C/S and we were both in his room, and, ahhh, on the tween decks, on the Apollo, and a messenger came down with a dispatch from Hubbard. What the, what the dispatch said totally amazed both of us. What is said, essentially was:

"People don't leave, in his words "blow,"
They don't blow due to overts and witholds,
they blow when they are ARC Broken."

That means affinity, reality, communication are broken, that means when they are upset in non scientology terms. Just plain upset.

He said, You, Franks and Mayo are never to speak a word of this to anyone, if anyone were to find out, I would lose control of all of our public and all of our organizations." and then a few other threats and "best Ron"...

(Tom Smith comment omitted as it went right back to this)

Mayo and I looked at one another, and this whole thing, it holds together, 80% at least, is the basic premise of all Scientology, at least 80%, and Here he (Hubbard) is just blithely saying

"It's all bullshit guys"

We were absolutely flabbergasted,

Tom Smith: Do you recall who the messenger was?

Yeah, Clair Popam.(spelling?)

-------------------

What I don't understand is this: Why would Ron put this on the D of T's lines? I can find it hard to believe he would say it to the sr. C/S, let alone someone that far down the org board.

Let's say Ron knows it is a con, it always been a con, and therefor what does it depend on? Not letting anybody, especially the tech guys, in on the fact it is a con - if they realize it they will leave, or not do their jobs and, like he says he will lose control.

Lets say Ron believes in Scientology, it's tech, it's purposes etc. and though he knows a lot of results are belief or placebo based, to keep the belief system intact, and to thus "keep Scientology working" likewise, he can't afford to let the tech guys know the truth can he? Again - it falls apart and he loses control.

Let's assume he did tell them, why would he? I'd like to hear your ideas on that.

Mimsey
 
Re: The Edge interview with high level scientology defector

Awesome. I always had a lot of respect for Bill Franks, though only at a distance because I never met him personally.

I met him personally and worked under him. I would not believe anything he said based on his word alone.

He was the biggest asshole I ever met in Scientology.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

Maybe it was fiendishly clever slow-acting poison, engineered to cause death 2 or 3 seconds before they would have died anyway. Homo Novis are way ahead of us, remember.

You could be onto something there; scary!
 
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