Dreams during Scientology

[guRl]

So, in the past few months a few threads started on the subject of dreams and nightmares post Scientology time (about Scientology), I think I even was one of those threads starters way back when, lol.
Anyhow, I've been thinking--
do any of you remember having interesting dreams during your time in ScioLand?
The subject of dreams in general always fascinated me (I also do a lot of interpreting..), and I'm guessing that during such an intensive and stressful time, one could dream stuff that symbolize that stress or fascination or anxiety or fixation etc, or dream stuff that are more literal and directly.. Scientological
So just wanted to drop off this question

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

So, in the past few months a few threads started on the subject of dreams and nightmares post Scientology time (about Scientology), I think I even was one of those threads starters way back when, lol.
Anyhow, I've been thinking--
do any of you remember having interesting dreams during your time in ScioLand?
The subject of dreams in general always fascinated me (I also do a lot of interpreting..), and I'm guessing that during such an intensive and stressful time, one could dream stuff that symbolize that stress or fascination or anxiety or fixation etc, or dream stuff that are more literal and directly.. Scientological
So just wanted to drop off this question

Back then it was one big nightmare. (Not really)

All I know is that we're not getting any Junger.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Kookaburra]

So, in the past few months a few threads started on the subject of dreams and nightmares post Scientology time (about Scientology), I think I even was one of those threads starters way back when, lol.
Anyhow, I've been thinking--
do any of you remember having interesting dreams during your time in ScioLand?
The subject of dreams in general always fascinated me (I also do a lot of interpreting..), and I'm guessing that during such an intensive and stressful time, one could dream stuff that symbolize that stress or fascination or anxiety or fixation etc, or dream stuff that are more literal and directly.. Scientological
So just wanted to drop off this question

There has been much discussion over the years on the subject. It seems that for many people, they do not dream at all while in Scn. I know that certainly held true for me. I wonder if it is perhaps because of the artificial thinking patterns that you are trained into. It is a pretty rigid and enforced pattern, whereas dreaming is very fluid and a mix of all sorts of not necessarily related things in no discernable pattern.

The other thing that is very common when getting out are the nightmares. Many reports of finding oneself back in the SO and so on. Perhaps this is part of the waking up process and realizing just how bad it really is in there.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

There has been much discussion over the years on the subject. It seems that for many people, they do not dream at all while in Scn. I know that certainly held true for me. I wonder if it is perhaps because of the artificial thinking patterns that you are trained into. It is a pretty rigid and enforced pattern, whereas dreaming is very fluid and a mix of all sorts of not necessarily related things in no discernable pattern.

The other thing that is very common when getting out are the nightmares. Many reports of finding oneself back in the SO and so on. Perhaps this is part of the waking up process and realizing just how bad it really is in there.

I find that slowly waking up and remembering my dreams I do recover them. In scientology there was never any time to do this, I woke up and had just a few minutes before roll call, maybe enough time to eat if I was lucky, and then no time to think till it was time to sleep again, and then too tired to think. There is no time for scientologists spare to do anything else but pretend to do your job or pretend to study.

 

[Kookaburra]

I find that slowly waking up and remembering my dreams I do recover them. In scientology there was never any time to do this, I woke up and had just a few minutes before roll call, maybe enough time to eat if I was lucky, and then no time to think till it was time to sleep again, and then too tired to think. There is no time for scientologists spare to do anything else but pretend to do your job or pretend to study.

Yes, the wacky schedule and sleep deprivation could be a factor. But I found that it took a long time, ie many years, before I started to dream again, and I made sure I was getting enough sleep ever since I was out, so it doesn't entirely explain it, for me at least.

 

[Teanntás]

So, in the past few months a few threads started on the subject of dreams and nightmares post Scientology time (about Scientology), I think I even was one of those threads starters way back when, lol.
Anyhow, I've been thinking--
do any of you remember having interesting dreams during your time in ScioLand?
The subject of dreams in general always fascinated me (I also do a lot of interpreting..), and I'm guessing that during such an intensive and stressful time, one could dream stuff that symbolize that stress or fascination or anxiety or fixation etc, or dream stuff that are more literal and directly.. Scientological
So just wanted to drop off this question

From my nights in Lebanon Hall berthing - I remember trying to wake up and finding that when I woke up I was still asleep and had to now try to wake up again with the same result - this went on for several rounds before I finally woke up. Weird, I know, but I was trying to free myself from something unpleasant of a spirit nature.

 

[guRl]

From my nights in Lebanon Hall berthing - I remember trying to wake up and finding that when I woke up I was still asleep and had to now try to wake up again with the same result - this went on for several rounds before I finally woke up. Weird, I know, but I was trying to free myself from something unpleasant of a spirit nature.

Interesting Teanntas, what you're describing sounds a lot like sleep paralysis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis ) which is a phenomena I'm very familiar with.
And IIRC, sleep paralysis does occur more often at times of stress.

 

[Teanntás]

Interesting Teanntas, what you're describing sounds a lot like sleep paralysis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis ) which is a phenomena I'm very familiar with.
And IIRC, sleep paralysis does occur more often at times of stress.

Interesting, thanks ! I think it happened twice while I was there but never again. And that was 36 years ago (good lord,that long ago)

 

[Mest Lover]

A hell bent for leather KSW SCNer would never spend enough time sleeping to get to REM. The rest would have a senior waking them up for stat pushing.

 

[clamicide]

There has been much discussion over the years on the subject. It seems that for many people, they do not dream at all while in Scn. I know that certainly held true for me. I wonder if it is perhaps because of the artificial thinking patterns that you are trained into. It is a pretty rigid and enforced pattern, whereas dreaming is very fluid and a mix of all sorts of not necessarily related things in no discernable pattern.

The other thing that is very common when getting out are the nightmares. Many reports of finding oneself back in the SO and so on. Perhaps this is part of the waking up process and realizing just how bad it really is in there.

Yeah, I was so sleep-deprived and insane, that I do wonder if I actually got any REM at all for periods on end. At one point, I'm pretty convinced I was sleep-walking through post and my wog job at times because my body just took over. Seriously... I was GONE. I remember often finally falling asleep about 20 minutes before I had to wake for post the next day.

Coming out--no sleep and sleep filled with nothing but nightmares about the org. Hard to tell reality almost, as it was such an insane decompression and collapse... every time I fell asleep I would awaken from a nightmare back in the org. !$#@. You know, when life gets rough, I really need to remind myself that I had an extended stretch where that was all my life was... scattered sleep filled with nightmares. If I hadn't been staying with my ex who was still in and anti-psych, probably would have (should have?) wound up in the psych ward. It really was that rough of a recovery.

 

[Good twin]

While in I used to have dreams about having gotten away with some horrible crime. I would dream about failing to confess to a murder and then rationalizing it. Interesting, yes?

 

[Knows]

There has been much discussion over the years on the subject. It seems that for many people, they do not dream at all while in Scn. I know that certainly held true for me. I wonder if it is perhaps because of the artificial thinking patterns that you are trained into. It is a pretty rigid and enforced pattern, whereas dreaming is very fluid and a mix of all sorts of not necessarily related things in no discernable pattern.

The other thing that is very common when getting out are the nightmares. Many reports of finding oneself back in the SO and so on. Perhaps this is part of the waking up process and realizing just how bad it really is in there.

I read somewhere in Hubbard's tech that dreams are low toned or one should not dream - so I stopped dreaming and my Scientology experience was a nightmare. Now that I am out - I have beautiful dreams and it feels good to just be human again!

 

[Frankie Greene]

While I was in, like so many people have said, I was so sleep-deprived I either forgot my dreams or didn't dream much at all!

I do, however, remember one dream I had when I was in. At the time of the dream, I was VERY upset with two staff members and their actions that had affected me personally. No one else at the org cared about what they had done as they were "upstat."

In the dream, I brutally murdered the two staff members. It was verrry graphic. And then in the dream, I left the murder scene, and marched straight to Ethics, told them what I had done. I was nose-deep in an Ethics book at the org when the police showed up at the church to arrest me.

I have never even layed a hand on anyone not in self-defense in real life. The emotions I experienced in the dream (feeling great about what I was doing and feeling no regret) I really think were a good indicator of how upset I was, and how the whole situation was affecting me.

Around that time I really started losing my hot shit and knew that Scientology was MAKING me crazy.

In an odd way, I could even thank those two staff members for doing what they did to me. If I hadn't been pushed so hard by that situation and hadn't realized that no one in Scientology gave a shit, I may not be out now. The intent was to hurt me, but it ended up saving me.

 

[lotus]

From my nights in Lebanon Hall berthing - I remember trying to wake up and finding that when I woke up I was still asleep and had to now try to wake up again with the same result - this went on for several rounds before I finally woke up. Weird, I know, but I was trying to free myself from something unpleasant of a spirit nature.

OH!

Fist time I read a description of what i did experienced too.
I don't remember any dreams but only me trying to wake -up - aware I was trying to stand-up but unable to do so neither to speak and while dreaming of me trying to wake up....etc....
AS a public - staff- or SO I would sleep only about 4-5 hours\day and I always was under high pressure for different reasons
of non-compliance to orders or ethics.

When I left the cult, it happened less often and now can happen once a year.

It was very weir though - I had the impression I would never succed to wake up the body as each time I tried to escape something I couldn't identify - and was exhausted when I succeded to wake up.

 

[Lulu Belle]

There has been much discussion over the years on the subject. It seems that for many people, they do not dream at all while in Scn. I know that certainly held true for me. I wonder if it is perhaps because of the artificial thinking patterns that you are trained into.

Or maybe you just don't get enough sleep to get into the REM stage.

 

[guRl]

While in I used to have dreams about having gotten away with some horrible crime. I would dream about failing to confess to a murder and then rationalizing it. Interesting, yes?

I do, however, remember one dream I had when I was in. At the time of the dream, I was VERY upset with two staff members and their actions that had affected me personally. No one else at the org cared about what they had done as they were "upstat."

In the dream, I brutally murdered the two staff members. It was verrry graphic. And then in the dream, I left the murder scene, and marched straight to Ethics, told them what I had done. I was nose-deep in an Ethics book at the org when the police showed up at the church to arrest me.

I have never even layed a hand on anyone not in self-defense in real life. The emotions I experienced in the dream (feeling great about what I was doing and feeling no regret) I really think were a good indicator of how upset I was, and how the whole situation was affecting me.

Fascinating! I mean, it's gruesome and it sucks but it's fascinating.
From what I can gather from all the comments here up until now, you could sum dreaming-in-Scientology up with three motives:
1. No ability to dream (or no time to dream)/Sleep Paralysis phenomena caused by stress and the urge to quickly wake up.
2. Feelings of constant guilt due to Ethics control mechanism, that manifest in dreams as getting away with terrible crimes.
3. Graphic violence that could be the outlet of very strong feelings by the subconscious, that during being a wake one has to hold inside or suppress.

 

[Frankie Greene]

Fascinating! I mean, it's gruesome and it sucks but it's fascinating.
From what I can gather from all the comments here up until now, you could sum dreaming-in-Scientology up with three motives:
1. No ability to dream (or no time to dream)/Sleep Paralysis phenomena caused by stress and the urge to quickly wake up.
2. Feelings of constant guilt due to Ethics control mechanism, that manifest in dreams as getting away with terrible crimes.
3. Graphic violence that could be the outlet of very strong feelings by the subconscious, that during being a wake one has to hold inside or suppress.

I would say this is all pretty true for me. I think there is definitely something to having had dreams where you commit terrible crimes. One thing I believed when I was in was that you really COULD fix a being with the Ethics Tech. I think when I had that dream that I described, I felt like even if I had committed terrible crimes, that Scientology could help me overcome whatever motivations I had in doing them. Like I could do anything bad and it could be fixed if I just did my conditions! I think perhaps this is how a lot of Scientologists justify their own crimes. Either it is "Best for the group," or it is nothing an "O/W Write-up or applying conditions can't fix."

I can definitely agree that the graphic violence in the dream was definitely from everything I was suppressing in real life. I was drowning in it all.

I also had another manifestation of those suppressed feelings when I was in. Were a situation to upset me so badly, I would get angry about it, stuff it down, and then feel fine. I would be cracking a joke or smiling at someone, and tears would just start streaming out of my face. I would have no control over it. I would literally feel emotionally in a higher place, and wooooo, there go the tears! I would always laugh at it, like "Oh, hah-hah, body. You should have been crying five minutes ago when I felt sad for that split second!"

It is crazy the things that the mind and body do as a response to stress!

 

[clamicide]

While I was in, like so many people have said, I was so sleep-deprived I either forgot my dreams or didn't dream much at all!

I do, however, remember one dream I had when I was in. At the time of the dream, I was VERY upset with two staff members and their actions that had affected me personally. No one else at the org cared about what they had done as they were "upstat."

In the dream, I brutally murdered the two staff members. It was verrry graphic. And then in the dream, I left the murder scene, and marched straight to Ethics, told them what I had done. I was nose-deep in an Ethics book at the org when the police showed up at the church to arrest me.

I have never even layed a hand on anyone not in self-defense in real life. The emotions I experienced in the dream (feeling great about what I was doing and feeling no regret) I really think were a good indicator of how upset I was, and how the whole situation was affecting me.

Around that time I really started losing my hot shit and knew that Scientology was MAKING me crazy.

In an odd way, I could even thank those two staff members for doing what they did to me. If I hadn't been pushed so hard by that situation and hadn't realized that no one in Scientology gave a shit, I may not be out now. The intent was to hurt me, but it ended up saving me.

Interesting! I didn't have the dreams, but I was going so psycho in the cult that I started having feelings of wanting to kill people that I'm sure are SO over my folders that if someone decides to disclose my name, they can show what a homicidal psychopath I was....

Seriously. At the time, I didn't realize it was Scio, because, they were 'good', but OMFG... the evil stuff going through my mind; I started confessing to all sorts of evil ints and convinced I needed the FPRD....

huh... well, that stuff just pretty much came to the head ONLY in the cult. I always have had a bit of a 'dark side', but fuck me... it was only the cult that freaking brought that stuff up in that way.

 

[Frankie Greene]

Interesting! I didn't have the dreams, but I was going so psycho in the cult that I started having feelings of wanting to kill people that I'm sure are SO over my folders that if someone decides to disclose my name, they can show what a homicidal psychopath I was....

Seriously. At the time, I didn't realize it was Scio, because, they were 'good', but OMFG... the evil stuff going through my mind; I started confessing to all sorts of evil ints and convinced I needed the FPRD....

huh... well, that stuff just pretty much came to the head ONLY in the cult. I always have had a bit of a 'dark side', but fuck me... it was only the cult that freaking brought that stuff up in that way.

I can totally relate! When I wanted to act out and do something "out ethics," I HAD to hold back, because I knew at some point or another I would be found out!

I've always been the type of person who internalized their anger, though. So when I wasn't able to even act out any small bit of revenge, it was turned in on myself tenfold! I HATED myself and my life! It contributed to how easily I was pushed over in the first place! I thought about taking my own life often when I was in the church, and right after I had left. Thankfully the worst is over. Even when I have bad days, and I feel shitty, now I am ALLOWED to feel shitty and have my own feelings. And that in itself is a good thing.

These days I take pleasure in my small "overt acts."

"BAH HAHA HAH! I TOLD MY BITCHY COWORKER THAT SHE WAS BEING A BITCH!"

"AH HAH HAH HAH HAH! I'M STAYING UP TOO LATE AND EATING ICE CREAM!"

"AH HAH HAH HAH HAH! I'M SMOKING THIS JOINT!"

Etc.

With your every move watched, it's amazing that so many people are able to walk away from the cult and not collapse. Life has a way, eh?

 

[guRl]

I was literally about to start the same thread when ESMB reminded me that I already asked that question three years ago
And it's still fascinating, so...

bump