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The Sole Source Myth

Veda

Sponsor
Thank you for the explanation, Veda.

I am not interested enough to spend hours doing research, but I do have enough interest in Hubbard's sources to compare things that he wrote to things that others had written previously. For example, someone provided a link to some of Crowley's writing (in English), itself taken from earlier work, and it was plain that some of Hubbard's processes were similar. It was plain to me because I am very familiar with Scn tech.

But I am not familiar with Crowley's tech. If, instead of providing a link to the text, someone had merely stated that Crowley had published the forerunners to various Scn processes years before, it would not have had the same impact at all. And it would have been very irresponsible of me to just lazily accept the assertion at face value.

With that Tree of Life illustration, I could recognise a similarity to a thetan, but all the rest meant next to nothing to me. The bland statement that Chokmah and Binah = as-is-ness and alter-is-ness needs more evidence, in my opinion. Especially when I peek on the Net and find at http://www.spirit-alembic.com/chokmah.html that Chokmah = Wisdom, How to accurately act in one's current situation (which is not the same as as-isness at all). And at http://www.spirit-alembic.com/binah.html Binah has something to do with a crisis in understanding the facts (which is not the same as alter-isness).

Paul

P.S. I looked over the links you located and posted, and I think (for now) you'll find them of little use, and a source of some confusion. It's a difficult area to study. My suggestion is to avoid complexities, and to study as much as possible the simplicities, and then - on your own - extrapolate from there.

The only way one can hope to slog through the knee-deep swamp of significance of this area of study is through perseverance.

Some day, perhaps, you'll develop a passionate interest, otherwise, a mild curiousity is fine also, but a mild curiousity won't motivate you to do the necessary slogging.

Hopefully, the material presented in the several posts on this thread will be of some use to you, and to others.

As for a Scientology source for the 'Four Conditions of Existence', you might try the book, 'The Phoenix Lectures'.

Hubbard added his own twist, omitted much, reduced 'Tetragrammaton' (the four expressions, or "letters of the name of God") to an almost comic book-level, where the first expression (condition) means only "to make something vanish" ("as-is"), and the second expression (condition) means only "to alter" something.

There's much more to it, of course.

Perhaps another time.
 

Veda

Sponsor
P.S. I looked over the links you located and posted, and I think (for now) you'll find them of little use, and a source of some confusion. It's a difficult area to study. My suggestion is to avoid complexities, and to study as much as possible the simplicities, and then - on your own - extrapolate from there.

The only way one can hope to slog through the knee-deep swamp of significance of this area of study is through perseverance.

Some day, perhaps, you'll develop a passionate interest, otherwise, a mild curiousity is fine also, but a mild curiousity won't motivate you to do the necessary slogging.

Hopefully, the material presented in the several posts on this thread will be of some use to you, and to others.

As for a Scientology source for the 'Four Conditions of Existence', you might try the book, 'The Phoenix Lectures'.

Hubbard added his own twist, omitted much, reduced 'Tetragrammaton' (the four expressions, or "letters of the name of God") to an almost comic book-level, where the first expression (condition) means only "to make something vanish" ("as-is"), and the second expression (condition) means only "to alter" something.

There's much more to it, of course.

Perhaps another time.

These links, and other material, are from other threads, and are an attempt to consolidate links, etc., re. the subject of Aleister Crowley:

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=7691&postcount=4

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=7710&postcount=7

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=7726&postcount=8

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=7727&postcount=9

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=7766&postcount=10

And,

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=7595&postcount=64

Note: There is some redundancy.
 
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Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I don't know of any other ism that runs chains and considers an incident resolved when you get the postulate.

Are you specifically referring to the FPRD or do other rundowns do this? (I don't have a lot of tech training, so I admit my ignorance.)

(Because the FPRD wasn't actually developed by LRH...)
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Are you specifically referring to the FPRD or do other rundowns do this? (I don't have a lot of tech training, so I admit my ignorance.)

(Because the FPRD wasn't actually developed by LRH...)

Dianetics, specifically New Era Dianetics with HCOB 16 September 1978, Postulate Off Equals Erasure.

Paul
 

beyond_horizons

Patron Meritorious
The "Tree of Life" depiction is a 'Know to Mystery Scale', and also contains aspects of the Tone Scale.

.

TOL ... Ahhh yes ... this is what I would call a REAL RELIGION!

Pre Crowley, the story has it that the Tree of Life was inspired by Moses after Moses experienced the Light of God at the burning bush and came down from the mountain. It is written in the metaphor and allegory of the post Moses time period in Hebrew into the Zohar .

Actually there were a number of folks who had those pesky NDEs through out history. Hence bibles and stuff to do some kind of translation. And from what I understand there was a science fiction writer who once had an NDE ... and here we are!

This is one of my favorite symbolic renditions of the schematic with the light at the upper apex as the Kingdom of the Father .

snip>... "Keter is the source of all, including the things as yet unmanifest. Stabilizing consciousness at this sphere is the goal of human evolution.

KETER, or "The Infinite," is the crown of the tree, the peak of the spiritual realm, the assimilation of all spiritual work. It is the place where the pure energy first extends into the world and becomes recognizable as tangible reality. "



p1.jpg


With Bina and Chockma being the polarity of the male and female essances that together with the father form the Holy Trinity , horizontaly and on down vertically through the left and right sides of the tree through the other emanations (Sephers) of Godliness, thus manifesting in Mother Earth "Sepher Malchus" where the seeds of the Holy Trinity have found fertile ground!

p3.jpg
p2.jpg



Snip from the site >……..

INVOCATION OF THE ORCHARD
"I pass through this orchard remembering that what I may learn, and what may pass before my eyes will be for the purpose of healing the world, and bringing Unity into this dimension, into the plane of human awareness. This orchard is the transition point between the transcendant and the imminent - the abstract and the concrete.

My personal path can adapt and absorb this forest slowly, and as it sees fit. My basic personhood remains intact, while sampling the myriad forms and concepts in the grove. Drinking from the river of delights of the Creator's house, my own specific root into the infinite is a path of emanation along which I can safely and respectfully traverse.

"All the world is a very narrow bridge - but the point is to be fearless."

Sepher Malchus is the grounding point, where I am centered, and where I will return after contemplating the trees, springs, fragrances, and many-faceted gems in the enclosure. Sepher Malchus is the point of connection and return to my personal concrete reality and viewpoint, to my ideal stability."


p10.jpg


http://borndigital.com/tree/esa/malchus.htm
 
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Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
For me, the theories about postulates and considerations are the main reason I still retain any interest in Scn whatsoever. Really really like and appreciate those ideas. :)
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Who says that the FPRD was not developed by LRH?
I suspect that anything which came out after 1980 when lrh disappeared into hiding was probably assembled and codified by dm-in-training.

I well remember typing up Christmas cards for staff that were "pre-signed" and it was a lithoset signature, not a hand-written one.

I suspect in hindsight, that letters to ron weren't even shipped to CMO Int, but were probably bulk answered at Continental level. "The So#1 line is inviolate!" Yeah! Sure! With all that money would lrh give a !@#$ what the public really thought of him?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I suspect that anything which came out after 1980 when lrh disappeared into hiding was probably assembled and codified by dm-in-training.

I well remember typing up Christmas cards for staff that were "pre-signed" and it was a lithoset signature, not a hand-written one.

I suspect in hindsight, that letters to ron weren't even shipped to CMO Int, but were probably bulk answered at Continental level. "The So#1 line is inviolate!" Yeah! Sure! With all that money would lrh give a !@#$ what the public really thought of him?

Well, this may be. But Melanie Seidler Murray told me that she piloted the FPRD, as well as KTL and the Super Power rundown in the late 1970's/early 1980's. She said that the pilots were being run by Hubbard. She told me she would get his hand-written instructions on a daily basis as she ran the pilots for these services in the CMO.
 

MarkWI

Patron Meritorious
I suspect in hindsight, that letters to ron weren't even shipped to CMO Int, but were probably bulk answered at Continental level.

"...17. Since Mr. Hubbard's chosen seclusion in 1980, communications to and from him have been very limited. During his seclusion Mr. Hubbard alone has originated each means of communication with a few trusted associates and has done so totally at his discretion. During some periods since early 1980, Mr. Hubbard has infrequently st [sic: "sent"?] communications to his trusted friends; at other times, there would be almost weekly communications sent to them. The frequency of communication varied over the last few years. In 1980 and 1981, there were almost none. In 1982, they were more frequent. In 1983, communications slowed down until the fall of that year, and since the spring of 1984, there have been none.
...
19. Since Mr. Hubbard's seclusion in 1980, there has not been to my knowledge a means of initiating a communication directly or indirectly to him. Mr. Hubbard has not provided anyone that I know of with a telephone number to call to contact him, nor an address where I or anyone else could send mail. When Mr. Hubbard desired to receive or send communications, he originated a method of transmitting limited communications via a series of relays and drops where communications could be exchanged through trusted friends of his. ..."
Declaration of Norman Starkey, 23 March 1985

I was writing to LRH in end 1984 and beginning 1985 and I was getting answers. Anyone has knowledge about who and how managed the SO#1 line?
 

Terril park

Sponsor


I was writing to LRH in end 1984 and beginning 1985 and I was getting answers. Anyone has knowledge about who and how managed the SO#1 line?


Its well known that the SO no 1 line was staffed by people who wrote on behalf of LRH. I was on the purif at Flag with one of these staff. Someone here may have more specifics.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I was writing to LRH in end 1984 and beginning 1985 and I was getting answers. Anyone has knowledge about who and how managed the SO#1 line?

I would suspect that anything later than '82 or so was never seen by 'Ron'; much like things from '76 onwards, except that, until '82, the 'not seeing' was because *RON* didn't want to see it and assigned flunkies to 'reply' (with love)

I suspect that pretty much *everything* from the late 70s on in the way of 'replies from Ron' was faked, although, at the beginning at least, it was because Ron wished it so.

The later stuff (84/85 for Ron's sake!) was almost certainly just fake fake fake fake fake.

Zinj
 

Veda

Sponsor

Some more info on other sources:

Jack Horner, Charles Berner...

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=19832&postcount=23

http://www.informaticafriuli.com/wp-content/uploads/Alfred_Korzybski.jpg

Note, the above, "hain Indexes" (Chain Indexes) on the chalkboard, as in "earlier similar" (also Korzybski usage.)

And a few other items to inoculate against possible mesmerizing by the Standard tunnel - oops, I mean the Standard "Bridge"...

Mike Goldstein:

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=34872&postcount=104

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=29401&postcount=8
 
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Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Some more info on other sources:

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=19832&postcount=23

http://www.informaticafriuli.com/wp-content/uploads/Alfred_Korzybski.jpg

Note, the above, "hain Indexes" (Chain Indexes) on the chalkboard, as in "earlier similar" (also Korzybski usage.)

And a few other items to inoculate against possible mesmerizing by the Standard tunnel - oops, I mean the Standard "Bridge"...

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=34872&postcount=104

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=29401&postcount=8

This whole thread is a very important thread.

For much of most peoples case conditions come from past failures in earlier 'ism's, 'ologies and earlier than this incarnation of Scio attempts.

The recognition of multiple sources is vital to unlock the different dynamics - as a being regains their own viewpoints (Sovereignty) - they progress up to recognizing other viewpoints - then granting beingness and value to those viewpoints (Omni-Sovereignty) - then being able to co-create with others without diminishing each other.

The killer of Scio is the crushing and making nothing of a staff member or followers viewpoints and super-imposing LRH or DM or whomevers viewponit over the top of yours.

The reason people are stuck in Scio and places like the SP Hall is they have no viewpoints left of their own.

Even if you were to go in and save them - they would not want your help as they cannot align their conditioned viewpoints to yours.

The path out is fairly simple - it is the recovery of your own viewpoints - then helping others recover their own viewpoints.

Thus there can never be a dominant viewpoint - at best at the highest levels it can be a co-create - and lets face it the greatest love affairs are co-creations. :happydance:

Alan
 

Div6

Crusader
"Another prime error has been made and is part of our culture, both religious and scientific, and that is the error of single source. At 1.1 single source looks to be the case. Also at 39.0. At neither point, however, is there any clear view. All life forms are not from a single source. The ideas of Nirvana, Valhalla, Adam, the original cell, each is now rather completely disproven. There is a source for every genetic line. By this is meant both a theta (thought static)
and MEST form. There are as many sources as there are living organisms, each line distinct and individual. The similarity of form in a species is due to similar environments and age of the class, not single source. A negative proof lies in the finding that health, sanity and effectiveness exist where the greatest self-determinism can be rehabilitated. A positive proof is that, if it were single source, the discovery of the genetic line facsimiles, the blueprint of the body, should permit just one individual to go back and clear the original upsets for the whole human race. It has been tried several times. It affects none but the preclear. His source is the very model of self-determinism."

From that hated little book, Advanced Procedures and Axioms....it also has that chapter on "Responsiblility" in it...
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
The killer of Scio is the crushing and making nothing of a staff member or followers viewpoints and super-imposing LRH or DM or whomevers viewponit over the top of yours.

The reason people are stuck in Scio and places like the SP Hall is they have no viewpoints left of their own.

Even if you were to go in and save them - they would not want your help as they cannot align their conditioned viewpoints to yours.

The path out is fairly simple - it is the recovery of your own viewpoints - then helping others recover their own viewpoints.

Thus there can never be a dominant viewpoint - at best at the highest levels it can be a co-create - and lets face it the greatest love affairs are co-creations. :happydance:

Alan


Good post, Alan.

I think this is true, the recovery of one's own viewpoint is neccesary. It is a slow process I think.

For me, sometimes, honestly, I feel like living teen years that I never had. Its odd. But still knowing whats ethical (to some degree) it makes for a strange concept regardless.

I think after getting out, it took me about 3 months to search the internet. I probably did it faster than some, because I knew the OT materials up to VII (at least up to V, plus I have audited OT VII's and VIII's), I figured there was nothing really confidential to me that I had not already seen the original.

So really what triggered it for me was the lies about LRH. I think that was when I had had enough.

Plus the horrible mishandling of illegal activities commited by Scientologists and/or Sea Org members. They are covered up. It is rare that they are turned over the authorities. That kinda pisses me off that the justice system is the way it is.

There is plenty of corruption going on unreported to authorities. And, as Illusionist said once on a thread, it would be great for them to be reported. But me doing that, its hard to remember them all, evidence, specifics, etc (IO am SP, you know!:D )

Anyways, rambling.

About getting one's own viewpoint back, it seems to happen oh so slowly.

In my case, (and this likely shows on this board in what I write about), I feel like I dont have enough information to give a viewpoint on things. Alot of things.

So it leads me to ask many many many questions. I read and research. I want to find out about all kinds of things. And so in between people's debates on this board, I will interject questions and ask for more info. (makes me laugh).

I am fortunate in that I can read and study and assimilate information rapidly. So I am always digging, asking, learning.

In a few years of study, I may be fighting and posting against everything I see others doing here. They have already studied it (or think they have, no offense intended there).

----

But for those stuck in the hall, its a long journey out. And some probably aren't even thinking about that. They want to get back in good graces and continue to fight against the reactive mind. It's sad, but some of them may never see the truth.
 

Good twin

Floater
This whole thread is a very important thread.

For much of most peoples case conditions come from past failures in earlier 'ism's, 'ologies and earlier than this incarnation of Scio attempts.

The recognition of multiple sources is vital to unlock the different dynamics - as a being regains their own viewpoints (Sovereignty) - they progress up to recognizing other viewpoints - then granting beingness and value to those viewpoints (Omni-Sovereignty) - then being able to co-create with others without diminishing each other.

The killer of Scio is the crushing and making nothing of a staff member or followers viewpoints and super-imposing LRH or DM or whomevers viewponit over the top of yours.

The reason people are stuck in Scio and places like the SP Hall is they have no viewpoints left of their own.

Even if you were to go in and save them - they would not want your help as they cannot align their conditioned viewpoints to yours.

The path out is fairly simple - it is the recovery of your own viewpoints - then helping others recover their own viewpoints.

Thus there can never be a dominant viewpoint - at best at the highest levels it can be a co-create - and lets face it the greatest love affairs are co-creations. :happydance:

Alan

WOW! Thank you Alan.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
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