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Scientology explained

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
Personally, I think everyone should study logic, including the illogics - but especially Scientologists. If they would all study the illogics, they might stop using Hubbard's illogics to support their beliefs.
A rather extensive list is here LogicalFallacies

We have seen some of the true believers use the following illogics just in this thread alone.
  • strawman Misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to attack.
  • ad hominem Attacking your opponent's character in an attempt to undermine their argument.
  • burden of proof Saying that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with others to disprove.
  • appeal to authority Saying that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.
  • black-or-white Where two alternative states are presented as the only possibilities, when in fact more possibilities exist.
  • anecdotal Using personal experience or an isolated example instead of a valid argument.
  • red herring An attempt to divert the debate from the subject being debated.
I noticed, with appeal to authority, that Scientologists will state as fact things which, on inspection, were only something claimed by Hubbard without any evidence of its truth. Scientologists do not question.
Thank you. That needed to be said. They should teach this in kindergarten.
Imagine what would happen if they knew these tactics were bogus and didn't use them. We might be able to have conversations.
There would have been no need. Hubbard would have died a penniless author.
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
How can an improvement in one's ability to communicate ever be tangible?
This is a standard part of psychometric testing.
Or a greater sense of one's own self-worth?
Psychlogists do test self esteem as well.
Or any of the other things people do gain here. These are subjective spiritual improvements and thus by definition are intangible.
You can define them as intangible, but in reality they are within the domain of psychology.

You might want to have a look at the Fischer Study

The MEDLINE database records two independent scientific studies on Dianetics, both conducted in the 1950s under the auspices of New York University. Harvey Jay Fischer tested Dianetics therapy against three claims made by proponents and found it does not effect any significant changes in intellectual functioning, mathematical ability, or the degree of personality conflicts; Jack Fox tested Hubbard's thesis regarding recall of engrams, with the assistance of the Dianetic Research Foundation, and could not substantiate it.
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
...



I believe you have discovered something to rival the invention of the ARC or KRC triangle!

The FOG Triangle. Fear, Obedience & Guilt.

It's virtually identical to ARC = Understanding, with one very minor difference.

FOG = Misunderstanding.

The more ethics tech that is applied, the FOGGIER the Scientologist gets, until one day they no longer understand themselves or their own life to the degree that they are running around doing amends projects for not standing and applauding the photograph of a dead con man.
You have real talent HH. Why type away for Marcabian credits per word? You should start your own religion.

Guilt leads to fear, fear leads to obedience and that leads to the dark side. You'd get the jedi's easily.
 
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You have real talent HH. Why type away for Marcabian credits per word? You should start your own religion.

Guilt leads to fear, fear leads to obedience and that leads to the dark side. You'd get the jedi's easily.

jewish mothers and the RCC have been masters of the FOG triangle for centuries

as matter of fact...

Co$ is in the hands of catholics and they are being catholics...
 
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Gib

Crusader
Personally, I think everyone should study logic, including the illogics - but especially Scientologists. If they would all study the illogics, they might stop using Hubbard's illogics to support their beliefs.
A rather extensive list is here LogicalFallacies

We have seen some of the true believers use the following illogics just in this thread alone.
  • strawman Misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to attack.
  • ad hominem Attacking your opponent's character in an attempt to undermine their argument.
  • burden of proof Saying that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with others to disprove.
  • appeal to authority Saying that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.
  • black-or-white Where two alternative states are presented as the only possibilities, when in fact more possibilities exist.
  • anecdotal Using personal experience or an isolated example instead of a valid argument.
  • red herring An attempt to divert the debate from the subject being debated.
I noticed, with appeal to authority, that Scientologists will state as fact things which, on inspection, were only something claimed by Hubbard without any evidence of its truth. Scientologists do not question.

Imagine what would happen if they knew these tactics were bogus and didn't use them. We might be able to have conversations.

totally agree. :thumbsup:

of course these are from Aristotle Rhetoric, the Art of Persuasion.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2010/11/14/classical-rhetoric-101-an-introduction/

My additions in green.

We have seen some of the true believers use the following illogics just in this thread alone.


  • strawman Misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to attack. (hubbard misrepresents media, psych, governments, etc)
  • ad hominem Attacking your opponent's character in an attempt to undermine their argument. (hubbard develops ethics tech, pts/sp tech & attacks media, psych's, governments, etc)
  • burden of proof Saying that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with others to disprove. (hubbard uses the emeter, and creates the success story/examiner line)
  • appeal to authority Saying that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true. (hubbard makes himself sole source KSW, sec checks, author, writer, his background of lies, etc)
  • black-or-white Where two alternative states are presented as the only possibilities, when in fact more possibilities exist. (hubbard creates KSW, PTS/SP tech)
  • anecdotal Using personal experience or an isolated example instead of a valid argument. (hubbard creates success stories, PR & marketing, etc.)
  • red herring An attempt to divert the debate from the subject being debated. (once again KSW, etc)

There is no such thing known as scientology. It's a word that is supposed to mean knowing how to know. Sounds good, very appealing. It's a shore story.

What we all studied was hubbardology, or HCOB's & HCO PL's.

We didn't study & learn scientology or SCOB's & SCO PL's.
 

Leon-2

Patron Meritorious
totally agree. :thumbsup:

of course these are from Aristotle Rhetoric, the Art of Persuasion.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2010/11/14/classical-rhetoric-101-an-introduction/

My additions in green.



There is no such thing known as scientology. It's a word that is supposed to mean knowing how to know. Sounds good, very appealing. It's a shore story.

What we all studied was hubbardology, or HCOB's & HCO PL's.

We didn't study & learn scientology or SCOB's & SCO PL's.

Not because they didn't exist. many others wrote PABs and bulletins in the early days. Well, up to about the early 1970's. The HSDC had many HCOBs written by others - damn good ones too - and on the XDn course too there were bulletins written by the main research assistant.

All got thrown out later.
 
More on depression. Getting them to talk about their problems is probably up there with one of the worst things you can do to someone who is suffering from depression. They are not depressed because of their problems. They are depressed because they suffer from depression. Making them think about things that are upsetting (i.e. their problems) is an awful thing to do.

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This post jumped out at me. Scientologists have a very very deep belief that "communication solves all problems" or somesuch, and that applies to personal problems related to depression etc. It only recently that I got to understand what Adam has posted.
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Au contraire. Lest we forget that Ron was Arcola back on the wholetrack--the being that invented music.

This lifetime, Ron researched and discovered the "tech" of pop music. He wrote bulletins (scripture) on it. It painstakingly laid out detailed formulae that produced results 100% of the time.

Ron showed musicians the way to create a hit song/album. Ron KNEW WITH TONE 40 CERTAINTY HOW TO MAKE A HIT RECORD!

Later Ron created two major hit albums ("Space Jazz" and "The Road To Freedom"). They were mega-successes.

Some SPs claimed the records were an epic commercial flop and critical embarrassment, only selling a small number to coerced and obligated Scientologists. Scn management did not release the stats because they don't pay attention to yapping dogs running alongside their wheels as they speed to the Grammys.

Ron also wrote vast numbers of bulletins, policies and "confidential advices" on movie making and scriptwriting. I remember that because I was a professional scriptwriter at the time and was not allowed to see them because they were exclusive to Golden Era staff. LOL. Nonetheless, Ron KNEW WITH TONE 40 CERTAINTY HOW TO MAKE A BLOCKBUSTER MOVIE!

Then Ron's best screenplay was marketed and made into a blockbuster film--"BattleField Earth".

Some SPs claimed the movie was an epic commercial flop and critical embarrassment, only selling a small number of tickets to coerced and obligated Scientologists. They claim it was named "the worst movie in history" and other lies. Scn management did not release the stats because they don't pay attention to yapping dogs running alongside their wheels as they speed to the Oscars.

So, that should end, once and for all time, this discussion of whether the tech works!

ps: For anyone still doubting Ron's music tech, let me point out that Ron himself wrote the bulletin called "Cultural Lag" which states that it takes 50 years for DBs on Earth to catch up to trends and present time events[SUP]1[/SUP]. Ron states that beings "on this planet" are operating on a 50 year com lag. Therefore if Ron released his huge hit album THE ROAD TO FREEDOM in 1986, even if it didn't sell many copies it still is a megahit success after the com lag flattens. Just check BillBoard Magazine's TOP HITS page in 2036! Case closed!


[SUP]1[/SUP] For any lurkers who rightfully assume this is a joke, not so fast! LOL. This is an actual policy by Hubbard ("Cultural Lag") including the doctrine of 50 years, et al.

Someone just reminded me of Roger Ebert's review of Battlefield Earth: "Battlefield Earth" is like taking a bus trip with someone who has needed a bath for a long time. It's not merely bad; it's unpleasant in a hostile way. :biggrin:
 

Gib

Crusader
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This post jumped out at me. Scientologists have a very very deep belief that "communication solves all problems" or somesuch, and that applies to personal problems related to depression etc. It only recently that I got to understand what Adam has posted.

depression is just a label.

scientology is for the "able to become more able"

and when enough able become more able,

why scientology will help the unable become able.

Hubbard said it would be a long cycle of action, meaning decades.

so all you depressed people will have to wait for next life time.

Key definition: able means -------> able to make money, and not a depressed person who can't work and make money.

sorry some of the unable who were thought to be able in the beginning of their sicientology adventure, well I'm sorry to say you folks are PTS or even SP's, so you folks are outta here, no charitable cases allowed, only able people who can pay money for exchange keeps the bank off. LOL
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
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This post jumped out at me. Scientologists have a very very deep belief that "communication solves all problems" or somesuch, and that applies to personal problems related to depression etc. It only recently that I got to understand what Adam has posted.

This 'belief' is conditional upon truth:

That both people are telling the truth which presupposes neither of them are lying to themselves

"Reverse Blockade: emphatically insisting upon something which is the opposite of the truth blocks the average person's mind from perceiving the truth. In accordance with the dictates of healthy common sense, he starts searching for meaning in the "golden mean" between truth and its opposite, winding up with some satisfactory counterfeit. People who think like this do not realize that this effect is precisely the intent of the person who subjects them to this method. "
Page 104, Political Ponerology by Andrew M. Lobaczewski
 

Gib

Crusader
This 'belief' is conditional upon truth:

That both people are telling the truth which presupposes neither of them are lying to themselves

"Reverse Blockade: emphatically insisting upon something which is the opposite of the truth blocks the average person's mind from perceiving the truth. In accordance with the dictates of healthy common sense, he starts searching for meaning in the "golden mean" between truth and its opposite, winding up with some satisfactory counterfeit. People who think like this do not realize that this effect is precisely the intent of the person who subjects them to this method. "
Page 104, Political Ponerology by Andrew M. Lobaczewski

which is why I stated earlier,

I would never do a sec check again, unless the sec checker also told me his/her overts or withholds when I told mine. It would have to be an instant turn around.

And thus, the sec checker knows about me, and me about them, and thus no leverage can be achieved, or black mail.

spy vs. spy. LOL

scientology sec checks or confessionals, all under the guise of freedom. :laugh:
 

Gib

Crusader
Someone just reminded me of Roger Ebert's review of Battlefield Earth: "Battlefield Earth" is like taking a bus trip with someone who has needed a bath for a long time. It's not merely bad; it's unpleasant in a hostile way. :biggrin:

I thought the book was great, I loved it.

The movie sucked big time.

The sublime in the book was good, not the best, but good.

The sublime in star wars was much better, and better portrayed.

Shawshank Redemption is an excellent example of the sublime in movie production.

Most academy awards are the product of sublime production, whether peeps are aware of the concept or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_(literary)

"Longinus

The earliest text on the sublime was written sometime in the first or third century AD by the Greek writer (pseudo-)Longinus in his work On the Sublime (Περὶ ὕψους, Perì hýpsous). Longinus defines the literary sublime as "excellence in language", the "expression of a great spirit" and the power to provoke "ecstasy" in one's readers.[SUP][1][/SUP] Longinus holds that the sublime may be found in every work, since the goal of a writer should always be to produce a form of ecstasy."
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
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This post jumped out at me. Scientologists have a very very deep belief that "communication solves all problems" or somesuch, and that applies to personal problems related to depression etc. It only recently that I got to understand what Adam has posted.

Also many people mistakenly think that depression is some form of grief.
Although these 2 could happen at the same time they are not the same thing.
 
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