Lulu Belle
Moonbat
I just told them I didn't want to......that's reason enough for them to leave you alone.
Are you sure you were in the same Scientology I was in?
I just told them I didn't want to......that's reason enough for them to leave you alone.
Recruiters will take "no" for an answer. You just have to present your arguments the right way. For most of them, "no" generally needs to be accompanied by threats of violence and/or legal action before they take the hint.Are you sure you were in the same Scientology I was in?
The book used to train recruiters is "Big League Sales Closing Techniques" by Les Dane.Scientologists LIE - they do not follow policies unless David Miscavige can prosper and flourish...
so it could be any reason
reasons only known to Xemu or Xenu.
As a member of public for about 17 years I've had many staff and sea org recruitment interviews and yes, they can tell you that the whole future of the planet depends on you joining staff/sea org. They also can become abusive. In my org I was the highest tech trained person, highest admin trained, highest on the processing side of the Bridge and had the highest IAS status yet recruiters often called me a dilettante, "a complete asshole" or "a failure as a being".Recruit prospects may not understand all of the machinations behind their recruit cycle but if love bombing and appealing to their sense of higher purpose doesn't work to break down resistance then they will play the heavier cards like the SPs are out to destroy the world, nuclear war is nigh and this is the last fleeting moment to salvage your spiritual freedom for eternity. The prospect can intuit that things are getting creepy, culty and forced - time to strategize a diplomatic retreat and minimize the collateral damage.
As a member of public for about 17 years I've had many staff and sea org recruitment interviews and yes, they can tell you that the whole future of the planet depends on you joining staff/sea org. They also can become abusive. In my org I was the highest tech trained person, highest admin trained, highest on the processing side of the Bridge and had the highest IAS status yet recruiters often called me a dilettante, "a complete asshole" or "a failure as a being".
My motivation for being in scientology was to get up the Bridge and I knew joining staff or the sea org wouldn't allow me to do that so I always refused. If that hadn't been my motivation then I would quite happily have punched the lights out of most of those recruiters but I had to stay calm so I could get up the Bridge. I wish I'd known then that it was a bridge to nowhere.
Abuse works. Just look at Stockholming. There is something in the human condition that makes us respond to abuse in very strange ways. Maybe it has something to do with our evolution as a group oriented species. You want somebody to buy something, try the nice approach, if that doesn't work just tell them they are an asshole and I double dog dare ya. OK, it might not work most of the time but sometimes it will so hoist it up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes it. A given percentage will. A recruit who responds to this is half Sea Org member already.As a member of public for about 17 years I've had many staff and sea org recruitment interviews and yes, they can tell you that the whole future of the planet depends on you joining staff/sea org. They also can become abusive. In my org I was the highest tech trained person, highest admin trained, highest on the processing side of the Bridge and had the highest IAS status yet recruiters often called me a dilettante, "a complete asshole" or "a failure as a being".
My motivation for being in scientology was to get up the Bridge and I knew joining staff or the sea org wouldn't allow me to do that so I always refused. If that hadn't been my motivation then I would quite happily have punched the lights out of most of those recruiters but I had to stay calm so I could get up the Bridge. I wish I'd known then that it was a bridge to nowhere.
Well said!!Recruiters are heavily micro-managed, even more than most Sea Org members because, unless they are sociopaths, instinctively they know what they are doing is an abomination and it takes pure force of will to keep on doing it. Even a reg is just taking your money - a recruiter is taking your everything.
I know you get this but for the benefit of our readers, Sea Org recruiters consider that people are basically operating off of their reactive mind. For Sea Org members this still holds true for public Scientologists or non-SO staff who have done a lot of auditing or training, by virtue of their not being as dedicated and making as great a sacrifice as they are. That may not make sense if the prospect is Clear or OT but then this is Scientology. The reactive mind has it's own sense of survival, you see, and on an instinctive level it knows that LRH and Scientology are out to destroy it so it exerts influence over the thetan to resist Scientology's goals and auditing and especially joining the SO. The prospect is oblivious to this undue subconscious influence and even though you describe the mechanism to them they can't comprehend it on an analytical level even as it is happening. There is a principle that the PC (Pre-clear) plus Auditor are greater than the Bank (Reactive Mind). Recruiters think like this also. They are attempting to help the prospect overcome their bank for their own good. They are not trying to overwhelm the prospect by ganging up on them alone in a closed room...just their bank.There's a mention in my book about the illusion of control by proxy where a person will turn over their control just when they assume that the other person knows more than them. But turn it up to 10 when you're sitting in front of a recruiter that's been in the Sea Org for many years, eh?
I too have been trapped in room for about three hours once. Never again. Not at Flag, but at ABLE. All the top execs, Three of them sitting with the recruiter, one on the desk in my face telling me that the people I have helped so far were nothing. I should be helping thousands. How she knew all about my private life, I have no idea, but she tried to break me down, and did, but not enough for me to sign the paper. I was already on staff and said I wouldn't abandon my post -- ha ha. I also took PCP! They said they could get by that one on the meter, because many people that think their pot was laced with it, discover it wasn't. (Uhmm, pretty sure I'd know pot from definitely NOT pot).
Also, I used the whole, I'm an artist, so my purpose doesn't align thing. They made me feel like shit for that too. They had me crying like a baby, and mostly because I knew I'd walk out of there without joining. I would never. I had too many friends in and saw what was happening. I practically lived on the streets myself some years before, and when I met kids younger than me around PAC and AOLA who had no supervision, no one that cared...I identified with that. I felt they had it worse than me because their parents were supposed to be self-aware. I came from shit, so it was expected that I would be neglected. These kids did not know they were being neglected. For that, I secretly resented the Sea Org and was always afraid they'd find that out.
Right, so once they join the Sea Org it's assumed that they've gone beyond / dropped the bank, are OT by virtue of being there and thus don't need any further processing?I know you get this but for the benefit of our readers, Sea Org recruiters consider that people are basically operating off of their reactive mind. For Sea Org members this still holds true for public Scientologists or non-SO staff who have done a lot of auditing or training, by virtue of their not being as dedicated and making as great a sacrifice as they are. That may not make sense if the prospect is Clear or OT but then this is Scientology. The reactive mind has it's own sense of survival, you see, and on an instinctive level it knows that LRH and Scientology are out to destroy it so it exerts influence over the thetan to resist Scientology's goals and auditing and especially joining the SO. The prospect is oblivious to this undue subconscious influence and even though you describe the mechanism to them they can't comprehend it on an analytical level even as it is happening. There is a principle that the PC (Pre-clear) plus Auditor are greater than the Bank (Reactive Mind). Recruiters think like this also. They are attempting to help the prospect overcome their bank for their own good. They are not trying to overwhelm the prospect by ganging up on them alone in a closed room...just their bank.
I think it's a Flag Order where LRH essentially says that Sea Org members are OT by virtue of being in the Sea Org. It might be in the "Intro to the Sea Org" tapes. This is consistent with the "No case on post" decree. Unless you have absolutely no reactive mind then it really isn't possible to not have a case on post or anywhere else, is it? If we could just turn it off then why do we need Dianetics or Scientology? The corollary is that if you are not a Sea Org member then you probably still have a case and because you haven't joined the Sea Org it's because you are out ethics, off purpose, a lousy PC or got bad auditing and so your Clear and OT certs can't be trusted.Right, so once they join the Sea Org it's assumed that they've gone beyond / dropped the bank, are OT by virtue of being there and thus don't need any further processing?
I know that really this is nuts and I shouldn't be bother to try and make sense of it
(within the Scientology mindset) but it's late at night here
Good answer Blue.I think it's a Flag Order where LRH essentially says that Sea Org members are OT by virtue of being in the Sea Org. It might be in the "Intro to the Sea Org" tapes. This is consistent with the "No case on post" decree. Unless you have absolutely no reactive mind then it really isn't possible to not have a case on post or anywhere else, is it? If we could just turn it off then why do we need Dianetics or Scientology? The corollary is that if you are not a Sea Org member then you probably still have a case and because you haven't joined the Sea Org it's because you are out ethics, off purpose, a lousy PC or got bad auditing and so your Clear and OT certs can't be trusted.
This falls under the "Make it go right", "No reasonableness", "Follow Command Intention", "Pure Postulate", "Tone 40 Intention", "Don't go into agreement with..." cultural mindset.
You get the idea...
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Yeah, @Cat's Squirrel, "on the face of it" is the key phrase in your comment. I read recently, that the feeling that humans get when they help other humans (for reals, not the $cn crap) is called elevation (Elevation emotion). So, what missionaries experience is the real deal. Compare and contrast to sucking money out of people, keeping them away from their families, and being screamed at the whole time to "be OT!!"On the face of it, it's not all that different from what the Catholic Church tells its missionaries; if they go overseas and work to help the poor they'll be happy because they'll be "doing the Lord's work" and will have found their true purpose in life. The difference of course is that the purposes the Church works for overseas, including the relief of poverty and illness, are genuine (whatever you might think of Catholic doctrine, their refusal to allow contraception etc.), whereas the Scientologists' goal of clearing the planet is a chimera.
Here's an interesting difference between Scn and many other religions: In Christianity, using your time and resources to help others is a freely-chosen good deed, and people who do so are considered Good People.On the face of it, it's not all that different from what the Catholic Church tells its missionaries; if they go overseas and work to help the poor they'll be happy because they'll be "doing the Lord's work" and will have found their true purpose in life. The difference of course is that the purposes the Church works for overseas, including the relief of poverty and illness, are genuine (whatever you might think of Catholic doctrine, their refusal to allow contraception etc.), whereas the Scientologists' goal of clearing the planet is a chimera.
Actually, there is a very practical reason for blowing this kind of sunshine up a Sea Org member's rear gear. If you don't have case and you are OT already then you don't really need auditing, do you? And if you demand it then you are off purpose, putting yourself ahead of the group, utilizing income producing resources that are better applied elsewhere and dragging everyone else down.Good answer Blue.
There's a phenomenon in the Tech called "key out," where although you still have a case it doesn't affect you at that point. I suppose this is what LRH was suggesting would happen when people joined the Sea Org - they'd be in such a "theta environment" that their bank would no longer affect them.
On the face of it, it's not all that different from what the Catholic Church tells its missionaries; if they go overseas and work to help the poor they'll be happy because they'll be "doing the Lord's work" and will have found their true purpose in life. The difference of course is that the purposes the Church works for overseas, including the relief of poverty and illness, are genuine (whatever you might think of Catholic doctrine, their refusal to allow contraception etc.), whereas the Scientologists' goal of clearing the planet is a chimera.