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Curious about the policy that you can't be on org staff once you were in the S.O.

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
By the way, I'm mid Bare Faced Messiah!!! Wow.

It explains a lot, to say the least.

What should be my next read?
I read A Piece of Blue Sky before Bare Faced Messiah. If a person is only going to read one book I'd suggest Blue Sky but if both then I'd suggest Bare Faced first. There is so much good info out there but it is very important to do core reading like this.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
It's so obvious that they created a loophole to get around the policy of not allowing former SO to work in non-SO orgs so they don't have to take care of children but still get to exploit the parents. This is the kind of "policy interpretation" that I find completely consistent from my experience. What is really shocking is that they still took the children in the Cadet Org as young as 6.

I am reminded of Sparta where children were property of the state and placed in the wild and if they survived they went to live and train under the government at age 6-7.

For uninsured, the cost of birth control pills runs around $20. - $50. per month. Until recently top SO pay was $50. per week, (we hear it is now $100.), however, pay is often reduced based on the respective org's budget and could feasibly be nothing or a few dollars. It is my understanding that the SO does not pay for birth control, (at least during this time), and from Mary Tabayoyan's deposition we read that SO members are expected to pay for their own abortions which would probably take at least 5 months full pay.

We are tempted to try to understand the Sea Org within the context of Socialism or Communism since it is technically a commune or Capitalistic because of it's obsession with money and production but since there is very little redistribution I think the more apt model is the raw exploitation illustrated in The Grapes of Wrath.

When I was in the SO I was very careful not to reveal the living and working conditions to friends, family, non-SO Scientologists and wogs. It was bad. I knew it was bad and anybody who understood how it was would know it was bad. This kind of cooperative self censoring and individual PR Area Control was one of the few successful actions that enabled the SO to exist. I find it absolutely predictable that they would twist themselves into a pretzel to get around the no SO in non-SO orgs policy only to undermine this one successful action by deliberately injecting the worst PR that the SO has to offer into non-SO orgs. It's no wonder they have to hire so many people on religious visas to find people who have that extra layer of ignorance about what really goes on.
Great post, BB.

Yes, Sea Org life for most SO members was like The Grapes of Wrath, or even Upton Sinclair's book, The Jungle. People got hurt, lost body parts, even died. I'll never forget the RPFer I saw fall from the top of the f'in Hollywood Christmas tree. We weren't provided any proper safety equipment. There was no scaffolding at all so nothing to even tie a rope. He broke his arm, I think his ankle and hip too, and hurt his back and neck badly but the RPF would not let him file a Workers Compensation claim because it would be "Bad PR." He went to Shaw Health Center, can you believe it? I am sure he had lifetime injuries from that fall, but he was convinced he was PTS and it was his fault. It had nothing to do with trying to hang decorations by himself on a 60 ft Christmas tree without any proper safety equipment, training or professional assistance. It had nothing to do with the fact Scientology made millions of dollars every week but saw his life and health as expendable so wouldn't cough up enough to have the tree put up professionally or even ensure he lived through the work. No, he had to be "OT" and make it go right while DM and upper management were spending up a storm and the reges were regularly taken out to Benihanas or similar for hundreds of dollars a plate and taking home thousands of dollars apiece. His life wasn't so valuable, he was an RPF slave getting $6 a week.

I asked him later about Workers Compensation and he told me no, he'd be fine. He winced in pain. He had a cast on his arm and walked funny. I stared at him in horror, but he had that "The RPF is a great program" smile on his face. I didn't dare say another word, I'd already been RPFs RPFed three times and my little boy's life depended on my silence so they'd let me out, but OMG, I prayed every night I'd live through that and get my son out of that hellhole safely as fast as possible.

I still choke on the Flag stories of how they were spending up a storm and eating gourmet meals in their separate dining rooms or at Flag while 90% of the Sea Org and other org staff and our children lived in destitute poverty, not to even mention so many of the public. The upper execs, RTC, OSA and reges were paid well to spin their PR lies about Hubbard's life and accomplishments, the workability of the tech, to promote OT levels that didn't do what they promised, to manage the rank and file and keep our morale high and hopes up so we'd continue to work like slaves. It was easy for those who tried to emulate the sociopathic traits of Hubbard to build their successes on raping and destroying the lives, health and finances of those they fooled. By using the tech, all the excuses were built in. Nothing was ever the fault of cruel policies or individuals, coercion, slavery or the Scientology predators who made their fortunes with the ''tek" through this abuse. Just label the ones you hurt, that's the way, and if they yell, smash them apart.

Scientology was written by a sociopath and created sociopaths, or found them and rewarded them with high positions. They understood, yeh, that only the tiger survives and the ruthlessness wasn't personal, it was just part of their jobs. The stats were up, that's all that mattered.


“All day long this man would toil thus, his whole being centered upon the purpose of making twenty-three instead of twenty-two and a half cents an hour; and then his product would be reckoned up by the census taker, and jubilant captains of industry would boast of it in their banquet halls, telling how our workers are nearly twice as efficient."
― Upton Sinclair, The Jungle

“...Nobody rose in Packingtown by doing good work. You could lay that down for a rule—if you met a man who was rising in Packingtown, you met a knave. That man who had been sent to Jurgis' father by the boss, he would rise; the man who told tales and spied upon his fellows would rise; but the man who minded his own business and did his work—why, they would "speed him up" till they had worn him out, and then they would throw him into the gutter.”
― Upton Sinclair, The Jungle
 
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screamer2

Idiot Bastardson
By the way, I'm mid Bare Faced Messiah!!! Wow.

It explains a lot, to say the least.

What should be my next read?
A Piece of Blue Sky is a good next read.
But really, anything you can get your hands on would be good too.
Especially anything you were not allowed to read while in the cult and subject to their draconian mind control.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Great post, BB.

Yes, Sea Org life for most SO members was like The Grapes of Wrath, or even Upton Sinclair's book, The Jungle. People got hurt, lost body parts, even died. I'll never forget the RPFer I saw fall from the top of the f'in Hollywood Christmas tree. We weren't provided any proper safety equipment. There was no scaffolding at all so nothing to even tie a rope. He broke his arm, I think his ankle and hip too, and hurt his back and neck badly but the RPF would not let him file a Workers Compensation claim because it would be "Bad PR." He went to Shaw Health Center, can you believe it? I am sure he had lifetime injuries from that fall, but he was convinced he was PTS and it was his fault. It had nothing to do with trying to hang decorations by himself on a 60 ft Christmas tree without any proper safety equipment, training or professional assistance. It had nothing to do with the fact Scientology made millions of dollars every week but saw his life and health as expendable so wouldn't cough up enough to have the tree put up professionally or even ensure he lived through the work. No, he had to be "OT" and make it go right while DM and upper management were spending up a storm and the reges were regularly taken out to Benihanas or similar for hundreds of dollars a plate and taking home thousands of dollars apiece. His life wasn't so valuable, he was an RPF slave getting $6 a week.

I asked him later about Workers Compensation and he told me no, he'd be fine. He winced in pain. He had a cast on his arm and walked funny. I stared at him in horror, but he had that "The RPF is a great program" smile on his face. I didn't dare say another word, I'd already been RPFs RPFed three times and my little boy's life depended on my silence so they'd let me out, but OMG, I prayed every night I'd live through that and get my son out of that hellhole safely as fast as possible.

I still choke on the Flag stories of how they were spending up a storm and eating gourmet meals in their separate dining rooms or at Flag while 90% of the Sea Org and other org staff and our children lived in destitute poverty, not to even mention so many of the public. The upper execs, RTC, OSA and reges were paid well to spin their PR lies about Hubbard's life and accomplishments, the workability of the tech, to promote OT levels that didn't do what they promised, to manage the rank and file and keep our morale high and hopes up so we'd continue to work like slaves. It was easy for those who tried to emulate the sociopathic traits of Hubbard to build their successes on raping and destroying the lives, health and finances of those they fooled. By using the tech, all the excuses were built in. Nothing was ever the fault of cruel policies or individuals, coercion, slavery or the Scientology predators who made their fortunes with the ''tek" through this abuse. Just label the ones you hurt, that's the way, and if they yell, smash them apart.

Scientology was written by a sociopath and created sociopaths, or found them and rewarded them with high positions. They understood, yeh, that only the tiger survives and the ruthlessness wasn't personal, it was just part of their jobs. The stats were up, that's all that mattered.


“All day long this man would toil thus, his whole being centered upon the purpose of making twenty-three instead of twenty-two and a half cents an hour; and then his product would be reckoned up by the census taker, and jubilant captains of industry would boast of it in their banquet halls, telling how our workers are nearly twice as efficient."
― Upton Sinclair, The Jungle

“...Nobody rose in Packingtown by doing good work. You could lay that down for a rule—if you met a man who was rising in Packingtown, you met a knave. That man who had been sent to Jurgis' father by the boss, he would rise; the man who told tales and spied upon his fellows would rise; but the man who minded his own business and did his work—why, they would "speed him up" till they had worn him out, and then they would throw him into the gutter.”
― Upton Sinclair, The Jungle
Yep, that's the Sea Org I remember. I recall hearing a guy fell off a scaffolding or from a rope and was badly injured while working on the Main Building right across the street from AOLA. Probably another RPFer around 1979.

You know this but for our readers, funding for medical care was specific to a Sea Org member's org. It's important for people to understand that there is no overarching medical funding in the Sea Org. They have set up each org to be a legally individual and separate entity that staff are contracted to so there is a firewall between upper management for all employee responsibilities or liabilities. AOLA was always the big bread winner in PAC so if you were AO staff, even an AO staff on the RPF you got better care than ASHO. LAO wasn't an SO org then but now that it is I would expect that their staff get poorer treatment than ASHO. Most orders for these kinds of risky projects come down from the CMO or Flag Bureaux or the CLO so if something happens it doesn't effect them directly. I expect this is how it was at Int Base also. Gold was a separate legal entity so they can scrape the sewage pond with their hands without masks and CMO is still behind the firewall.

It takes a while to figure out when you are a snail trying to understand the Parthenon by crawling over the reliefs.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Yes, it could be seriously detrimental to one's health and well-being being a member of the RPF. A bunch of us were told to move a huge piece of industrial equipment (I can't recall exactly what it was right now, something to do with a large boiler I think) and put it onto the back of a truck. Somebody lost their grip and it fell and damn near crushed my hand and I was lucky to pull it out of the way in time. I like to tinker with my guitar from time to time, and those days would have been over.

These were the days when the foundations for what was to become the castle at Saint Hill were being dug, and there I was in a trench in midwinter, naked to the waist with the temperature at -5° C, digging like a demon. Pneumonia? Hah! I laughed at Pneumonia. I must have been mad!
 
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Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Allowing pregnant SO to transfer with their families to a Cl IV org was originally issued as an SO ED by Guillaume LeSevre and was his idea and policy. I think he meant well at the time and was trying to keep SO families together and give them a chance to work more reasonable hours and live in a less confining environment. I remember that ED, and I remember feeling a bit jealous at the time that SO members could do that. It seemed so much better than the SO.


Honestly, Sheila, I don't think that the Baby Couple issue had a whole lot to do with any feelings of kindness towards couples who conceived. It was an understood thing in the Sea Org that allowing yourself to get pregnant was grossly out-ethics. If you ever talk to anyone who got pregnant during this time period, they will tell you that before they were sent to a Class V org they spent months in the CLO/FCB on the decks and writing up O/Ws. This was in between ethics handlings where they were told covertly or overtly that the ethical thing to do was to terminate the pregnancy.

The reason these couples were sent to these orgs was to theoretically "boom" them and, of utmost importance, get their renoes done. The SO staff were sent on mission orders to get the money raised from the public to do the org renovations on top of the normal org GI. The actual plans for each of the buildings were done by the renoes org and the couples were sent to the orgs with these plans.

The idea was that the SO couple would "raise the ethics level of the org to Sea Org standards". Of course this didn't happen. It didn't take long to see that things rapidly went in the other direction in 99 percent of the cases. You had a young impoverished couple with a newborn trying to run a small failing org. Sometimes they also had other children that they had had previous to the rule who also had to be cared for and supported.

Generally one of them wound up having to take an outside job so that the family could eat. A lot of these couples routed off staff not long after they were sent to the orgs. There were also other things that came up: for instance, cases of "out 2D" with one or the other of the couple getting involved with a Class V staff member (maybe even public; it's been a while and I don't totally remember).

Very rarely a couple would actually make it through the six years and come back to an SO base. I can only think of one couple who did that (Bill and Stephanie Carey). Occasionally also the couple would wind up being left in charge of the Class V org more or less permanently, like the Sonenfilds in Cincinnati.

As a whole, the whole thing was considered a failure, causing far more new messes rather than the original idea of cleaning up existing ones. Not that I blame them, but the way most of these SO staff acted when being let loose in the field was considered to be tarnishing the repute of the Sea Org. I really can't argue with that assessment.

At some point after I left the whole thing was cancelled and now when people get pregnant they just route them out. Much better idea for everyone involved.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Thanks, Lulu Belle. Wow, I had no idea all of this happened afterward. I was RPFed only a few months after that issue came out, not around long enough to see the consequences.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
The idea was that the SO couple would "raise the ethics level of the org to Sea Org standards". Of course this didn't happen. It didn't take long to see that things rapidly went in the other direction in 99 percent of the cases. You had a young impoverished couple with a newborn trying to run a small failing org. Sometimes they also had other children that they had had previous to the rule who also had to be cared for and supported.

Generally one of them wound up having to take an outside job so that the family could eat. A lot of these couples routed off staff not long after they were sent to the orgs. There were also other things that came up: for instance, cases of "out 2D" with one or the other of the couple getting involved with a Class V staff member (maybe even public; it's been a while and I don't totally remember).

Very rarely a couple would actually make it through the six years and come back to an SO base. I can only think of one couple who did that (Bill and Stephanie Carey). Occasionally also the couple would wind up being left in charge of the Class V org more or less permanently, like the Sonenfilds in Cincinnati.

As a whole, the whole thing was considered a failure, causing far more new messes rather than the original idea of cleaning up existing ones. Not that I blame them, but the way most of these SO staff acted when being let loose in the field was considered to be tarnishing the repute of the Sea Org. I really can't argue with that assessment.

At some point after I left the whole thing was cancelled and now when people get pregnant they just route them out. Much better idea for everyone involved.
I'm not surprised. What keeps "Sea Org discipline" in is being under constant surveillance by all the other SO members, who are obligated to write you up for the smallest infraction. Free them from that, put them in a situation where being a SO member becomes impossible, and people are going to have no choice but say "screw it".
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Honestly, Sheila, I don't think that the Baby Couple issue had a whole lot to do with any feelings of kindness towards couples who conceived. It was an understood thing in the Sea Org that allowing yourself to get pregnant was grossly out-ethics. If you ever talk to anyone who got pregnant during this time period, they will tell you that before they were sent to a Class V org they spent months in the CLO/FCB on the decks and writing up O/Ws. This was in between ethics handlings where they were told covertly or overtly that the ethical thing to do was to terminate the pregnancy.

The reason these couples were sent to these orgs was to theoretically "boom" them and, of utmost importance, get their renoes done. The SO staff were sent on mission orders to get the money raised from the public to do the org renovations on top of the normal org GI. The actual plans for each of the buildings were done by the renoes org and the couples were sent to the orgs with these plans.

The idea was that the SO couple would "raise the ethics level of the org to Sea Org standards". Of course this didn't happen. It didn't take long to see that things rapidly went in the other direction in 99 percent of the cases. You had a young impoverished couple with a newborn trying to run a small failing org. Sometimes they also had other children that they had had previous to the rule who also had to be cared for and supported.

Generally one of them wound up having to take an outside job so that the family could eat. A lot of these couples routed off staff not long after they were sent to the orgs. There were also other things that came up: for instance, cases of "out 2D" with one or the other of the couple getting involved with a Class V staff member (maybe even public; it's been a while and I don't totally remember).

Very rarely a couple would actually make it through the six years and come back to an SO base. I can only think of one couple who did that (Bill and Stephanie Carey). Occasionally also the couple would wind up being left in charge of the Class V org more or less permanently, like the Sonenfilds in Cincinnati.

As a whole, the whole thing was considered a failure, causing far more new messes rather than the original idea of cleaning up existing ones. Not that I blame them, but the way most of these SO staff acted when being let loose in the field was considered to be tarnishing the repute of the Sea Org. I really can't argue with that assessment.

At some point after I left the whole thing was cancelled and now when people get pregnant they just route them out. Much better idea for everyone involved.

I felt obligated to publish an update here, as I got some new information this morning. Chris Shelton has a video that was on Tony Ortega site this morning about current information about Scientology and the Sea Org.

One of the very interesting things that he talked about was fact that not only are forced abortions alive and kicking, but now there are enforced vasectomies for guys that get someone pregnant more than once.

Pretty frightening stuff.

I pretty much never watch videos about Scientology, as I really don't have the time and I can't sit there that long. However, I couldn't help myself when it came to current data as to what is going on in the SO orgs currently. Very interesting video. I would encourage others to watch it.
 
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strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
<snip>

One of the very interesting things that he talked about was fact that not only are forced abortions alive and kicking, but now there are [bcolor=#ffff00]enforced vasectomies[/bcolor] for guys that get someone pregnant more than once.

Pretty frightening stuff.

<snip>
What next, a bit of friendly FGM for the ladies so they lose interest altogether?
 
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