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Why do people think it is necessary to be tolerant of religion?

phenomanon

Canyon
here is a VERY wide spectrum of belief among Christians as to interpretation of scripture, always was and always will be. Various sects get organized around various tenets and doctrines and most, at least at the start, display some characteristics of cults. The more cultlike the group the more likely it's existence will be brief. The "Shakers" would be a prime example of a once dynamic sect which succumbed to it's own doctrine.

Scientology is hampered by Xenu and Helatrobus but it's strengths, auditing and auditor training will likely ensure it's existence.


:scnsucks::ripped::strike::notworking::scnsucks::itstrue::scnsucks::readrules::strike::readfaq::scnsucks:
:squirrel::squirrel::squirrel::squirrel::squirrel::squirrel:
 

phenomanon

Canyon
One of my fondest memories was on a forum one time with a Christian. I wish I had captured the posts but I didn't.

I don't recall the debate but the Christian opens with a lofty appeal to the altruism in being a Christian and how it was service to God and Jesus and fellow man and not an individual selfish thing at all.

Of course, the Christian soon was embroiled in the argument and the Christian's last post was (paraphrased):

"Well, at least I'M saved and going to Heaven while the rest of you are going to Hell!!"
At least it will be warm there.:)
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Exactly.

I realized, some time ago, that it is useless to try to discuss Scientology's "results" on a one-on-one basis. One person, a True Believer, has an opinion. An opinion, by definition, cannot be proven or disproven it is just an opinion.

The way to discuss Scientology "results" is to look at all Scientologists. How many Scientologists show out of human range successes. How many Scientologists are leaders in their field. How many Scientologists provably demonstrate paranormal abilities. How many Scientologists could be considered "extraordinary".

Individuals can and, if they truly believe, will fantasize and imagine, without actual proof, that they have "special" abilities -- but viewing Scientologists as a group will demonstrate the actual "results" from Scientology -- which turns out to be NOTHING.
Sorry Bil, but I must disagree. The actual results from scn are far from NOTHING. I'd have to say the predominant results are disillusionment, financial destruction, and emotional distress.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
It works?

Then why is it that LRH had access to the very best Scientology practitioner's yet his final years he suffered from all types of medical conditions not to mention mental illness?

Why do Scientologists get cancer, go Type III, commit suicide, and fail 100% of the time to obtain the promised abilities of a Clear and OT?

Just because one person (YOU) was satisfied is not evidence of anything.

If I handed out cups of snake oil to a line of cancer patients, promising them it was a total cure, I guarantee that some of them would be satisfied as well.
Ron was somewhat overly optimistic about the value of his discoveries to say nothing of utterly shameless in promoting them. Back in the late Fifties or early Sixties he was asked if dianetics would enhance longevity. He repied "Ask me in two hundred years." As we know, his mortal span was but 75 years but when you factor in his voluminous consumption of Myers Dark Jamaican Rum (etc.) 75 ain't too bad. He was very dynamic and embattled; his work vastly assaulted and his person subject of outrageous attack. And you are all too willing to accept as gospel all antiRon antiScn agitprop. I'm not a koolaid drinker. I didn't drink the scilon koolaid when I was there and I don't drink antiscilon koolaid now. It does appear evident Hubbard suffered some measure of the dementia praecox which so often haunts a mortal creatures closing days but back in the summer of 1985 good friend in the Haight who played exquisite classical acoustic guitar showed up at the long lamented Chattanooga Cafe after a gig at a bar in Phoenix and told me of running into Our Founder. He did not describe a meeting with a person giving evidence of "mental illness".

I'm certainly not the only former student of dianetics who is greatly satisfied with the study. We are legion and very many have been posters on ESMB over the years.

And your second paragraph is of great interest but while there is much I do not know there is so much I could say that I choose not to go into it here.

Luv ya...

Keep up the good work and when you can't just give us what you have
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Ron was <snipped the BS from your post>
You didn't present ANY evidence to effectively counter or debunk a single point I made in my post. :faceslap:

Let's continue the discussion after you've produced evidence of the existence of single Clear or OT who possesses those abilities Hubbard promised, OK?
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Ron was somewhat overly optimistic about the value of his discoveries to say nothing of utterly shameless in promoting them. Back in the late Fifties or early Sixties he was asked if dianetics would enhance longevity. He repied "Ask me in two hundred years." As we know, his mortal span was but 75 years but when you factor in his voluminous consumption of Myers Dark Jamaican Rum (etc.) 75 ain't too bad. He was very dynamic and embattled; his work vastly assaulted and his person subject of outrageous attack. And you are all too willing to accept as gospel all antiRon antiScn agitprop. I'm not a koolaid drinker. I didn't drink the scilon koolaid when I was there and I don't drink antiscilon koolaid now. It does appear evident Hubbard suffered some measure of the dementia praecox which so often haunts a mortal creatures closing days but back in the summer of 1985 good friend in the Haight who played exquisite classical acoustic guitar showed up at the long lamented Chattanooga Cafe after a gig at a bar in Phoenix and told me of running into Our Founder. He did not describe a meeting with a person giving evidence of "mental illness".

I'm certainly not the only former student of dianetics who is greatly satisfied with the study. We are legion and very many have been posters on ESMB over the years.

And your second paragraph is of great interest but while there is much I do not know there is so much I could say that I choose not to go into it here.

Luv ya...

Keep up the good work and when you can't just give us what you have

Bill, you can rely on me to continue not understanding that
I don't recall hardly any former students of Dn who were greatly satisfied with the study, posting om esmb. Of the legion and very many, could you name 5?
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Not off the top of my head.

And none have voiced anything resembling my enthusiasm for the the subject.

But there have been many soto voce yet firm affirmations of auditing on ESMB



:scnsucks::ripped::strike::notworking::scnsucks::itstrue::scnsucks::readrules::strike::readfaq::scnsucks:
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
You didn't present ANY evidence to effectively counter or debunk a single point I made in my post. :faceslap:

Let's continue the discussion after you've produced evidence of the existence of single Clear or OT who possesses those abilities Hubbard promised, OK?
Of course if you declare everything after "Ron was..." to be BS then I haven't given much response have I?

Luv ya Pitsy and I love you for your gumption in holding to your position and it's polemic and ever the more so for your diligence in doing research.
 

F.Bullbait

Oh, a wise guy,eh?
c24f5280c34301366508005056a9545d
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Just by the way...

I didn't name my testicles Ron and Mary Sue, I never thought Hubbard's work was the end all be all of existence.

I consider it an optional study; it isn't for everyone but it can be for anyone
 

Dotey OT

Cyclops Duck of the North - BEWARE
I'm curious.

This thread started off with an apparent, but not certain jab at ex scn folks like Mike and Leah, for their exposure of JW abuse of it's parishioners.

This thread most recently has a statement that scn can be for anyone.

Does anyone know where I can go that is something like an ex scn message board? Where exscn folks can feel safe?
 

F.Bullbait

Oh, a wise guy,eh?
I'm curious.

This thread started off with an apparent, but not certain jab at ex scn folks like Mike and Leah, for their exposure of JW abuse of it's parishioners.

This thread most recently has a statement that scn can be for anyone.

Does anyone know where I can go that is something like an ex scn message board? Where exscn folks can feel safe?
A forum with a diversity of opinion is the safest space. Then you know you aren't in a cult.
 

Dotey OT

Cyclops Duck of the North - BEWARE
A forum with a diversity of opinion is the safest space. Then you know you aren't in a cult.


If I were trying to get over alcohol, and I was involved in a group of like minded people, I think the guy that says "having a wine tasting party at my house tonight, alone" would probably stand out.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Exactly.

I realized, some time ago, that it is useless to try to discuss Scientology's "results" on a one-on-one basis. One person, a True Believer, has an opinion. An opinion, by definition, cannot be proven or disproven it is just an opinion.

The way to discuss Scientology "results" is to look at all Scientologists. How many Scientologists show out of human range successes. How many Scientologists are leaders in their field. How many Scientologists provably demonstrate paranormal abilities. How many Scientologists could be considered "extraordinary".

Individuals can and, if they truly believe, will fantasize and imagine, without actual proof, that they have "special" abilities -- but viewing Scientologists as a group will demonstrate the actual "results" from Scientology -- which turns out to be NOTHING.
Right. Scientology should have lots of people who are stars in their field.

At the least we should have people who made fortunes off whole track technology
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm curious.

This thread started off with an apparent, but not certain jab at ex scn folks like Mike and Leah, for their exposure of JW abuse of it's parishioners.

This thread most recently has a statement that scn can be for anyone.

Does anyone know where I can go that is something like an ex scn message board? Where exscn folks can feel safe?
This is an EX scientologist forum

NOT

an exclusively ANTI scientology forum


On the one hand...


:scnsucks::ripped::strike::notworking::scnsucks::itstrue::scnsucks::readrules::strike::readfaq::scnsucks:


But on the other hand...


I am an AUDITOR.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
I'm curious.

This thread started off with an apparent, but not certain jab at ex scn folks like Mike and Leah, for their exposure of JW abuse of it's parishioners.

This thread most recently has a statement that scn can be for anyone.

Does anyone know where I can go that is something like an ex scn message board? Where exscn folks can feel safe?

I am not quite sure what you mean.

But you could try the more hard-core:
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Right. Scientology should have lots of people who are stars in their field.

At the least we should have people who made fortunes off whole track technology

I am afraid that you just made the most compelling case supporting the validity of L. Ron Hubbard that anyone's ever made.

Your post supports the distinct possibility that Hubbard did in fact recall/access whole track tech that allowed him to make a fortune.

Even if he didn't access whole track tech, he still nonetheless used "whole track tech" to make a fortune.

lol
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I am afraid that you just made the most compelling case supporting the validity of L. Ron Hubbard that anyone's ever made.
Doesn't OT VIII supposed to handle amnesia on the whole track? And given that that's been handled in thousands of OT VIII's, why are they all keeping this treasure of knowledge going back quadrillions of years to themselves? :unsure:

All of the challenges we are facing on the planet now, ALL of them, have come up countless times in the past and have been overcome. Why aren't these people who are part of "the most ethical group on the planet" sharing their wisdom with us?

If OT VIII's got 10% of the benefits promised by Scientology we'd be hearing about an OT VIII EVERY day in the media, how they pulled some solution used on the whole track to improve our lives today.

Or maybe they're withholding this vast treasure trove of knowledge because they're concerned about us all going criminal, from being out-exchange?
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Exactly.

I realized, some time ago, that it is useless to try to discuss Scientology's "results" on a one-on-one basis. One person, a True Believer, has an opinion. An opinion, by definition, cannot be proven or disproven it is just an opinion.

The way to discuss Scientology "results" is to look at all Scientologists. How many Scientologists show out of human range successes. How many Scientologists are leaders in their field. How many Scientologists provably demonstrate paranormal abilities. How many Scientologists could be considered "extraordinary".

Individuals can and, if they truly believe, will fantasize and imagine, without actual proof, that they have "special" abilities -- but viewing Scientologists as a group will demonstrate the actual "results" from Scientology -- which turns out to be NOTHING.
I know opinions are not acceptable as proof but why can't an opinion be proven true or false? If an opinion is based in fact it can be proven to be true. In itself, without such supporting facts, it is just a statement of belief which may or may not be based facts. But an opinion can be proven true or false. You have done so yourself. When a fact is put up that renders an opinion baseless, it is proven to be false. if a fact is put up sufficient to make the opinion stand due to lack of contrary facts, it can be proven to be at least likely true. If unrebutted facts support an opinion then it is true even if not in all cases. It can only be made false by a fact that rebuts all facts that it is true.
 
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