An experience with a very reticent ex

[Shrack]

Hi all!

i wasn't sure where to put this story, but I think it's definitely an anecdote about how difficult it can be to feel comfortable discussing one's history with Scientology, even after it becomes a footnote in one's history, long ago.

Personally, I've for some time felt comfortable discussing my childhood in Scientology with anyone who I feel has the mental maturity to listen carefully to my assessment of my upbringing without judging me for it (which includes almost everyone I choose to associate with...I have the benefit and luxury of a very intelligent and critically-thinking group of colleagues, acquaintances, and friends.).

A couple years ago, roughly, I met someone quite by accident who was a friend of a colleague's husband who was also an ex-Scientologist. When the subject came up (due to my openness), our mutual acquaintance mentioned that his friend (present at the time) had been brought up in Scientology and had years since defected. It was an astonishing moment for us both, but what struck me deeply were a couple things: 1) That he seemed far more traumatized and hesitant to talk about his experience than I was and 2) that his whole family had left at roughly the same time, but he seemed not to have talked about it much to anyone.

We proceeded to chat about our experiences in a deep and meaningful way that seemed to be new to him, like he'd never felt comfortable about opening up before. I felt simultaneously glad that I could be an intelligent sounding board for him and thrilled that I'd found an unexpected friend among friends.

I haven't seen the dear fellow since, but his story and his emotions have reminded me since that I had a very easy time leaving Scientology compared to many. I felt like I may have been the first person to whom he was able to share a long-poisonous story, and I hope he understood that he is not alone, that his experience leaving was valid, and that talking about it is OK.

So you see, I've been lurking for 10+ years, but all the while, I always tell myself, and anyone I meet: Talking about it is ok. And you are not alone.

You are not alone.

Much love,

Amy Shrack

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

First of all. welcome!

I think you made two very important points.

One, that talking about our experiences with someone else helps.

And two, that we are not alone.

In fact, we probably out-number those still in.

Welcome!

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[X-Member-Hooray]

Hi,

I can imagine how this person feels. I have not met one single peson ever, except when I felt obligated to a lawyer who I was getting legal advice from, about what happened to all the money that I was involved in Scn.

This is in 25 years. I still feel I cant speak about it to anyone except on ESMB. One of my daughters knows a bit about it but has only quickly brought it up once. I feel such a fool for getting involved in the first place.

I wonder if other Xs feel the same way.

 

[ThetanExterior]

<snip>

In fact, we probably out-number those still in.

Welcome!

The Anabaptist Jacques

I would have thought we vastly outnumber those still in. The CofS regularly quotes "millions" of Scientologists but current estimates of the number of members of the CofS are about 25,000. So there are probably millions of exes and only a few thousand current members.

Amy, you've joined the right group.

 

[JustMe]

Hi all!

i wasn't sure where to put this story, but I think it's definitely an anecdote about how difficult it can be to feel comfortable discussing one's history with Scientology, even after it becomes a footnote in one's history, long ago.

Personally, I've for some time felt comfortable discussing my childhood in Scientology with anyone who I feel has the mental maturity to listen carefully to my assessment of my upbringing without judging me for it (which includes almost everyone I choose to associate with...I have the benefit and luxury of a very intelligent and critically-thinking group of colleagues, acquaintances, and friends.).

A couple years ago, roughly, I met someone quite by accident who was a friend of a colleague's husband who was also an ex-Scientologist. When the subject came up (due to my openness), our mutual acquaintance mentioned that his friend (present at the time) had been brought up in Scientology and had years since defected. It was an astonishing moment for us both, but what struck me deeply were a couple things: 1) That he seemed far more traumatized and hesitant to talk about his experience than I was and 2) that his whole family had left at roughly the same time, but he seemed not to have talked about it much to anyone.

We proceeded to chat about our experiences in a deep and meaningful way that seemed to be new to him, like he'd never felt comfortable about opening up before. I felt simultaneously glad that I could be an intelligent sounding board for him and thrilled that I'd found an unexpected friend among friends.

I haven't seen the dear fellow since, but his story and his emotions have reminded me since that I had a very easy time leaving Scientology compared to many. I felt like I may have been the first person to whom he was able to share a long-poisonous story, and I hope he understood that he is not alone, that his experience leaving was valid, and that talking about it is OK.

So you see, I've been lurking for 10+ years, but all the while, I always tell myself, and anyone I meet: Talking about it is ok. And you are not alone.

You are not alone.

Much love,

Amy Shrack

That's really lovely Amy.

Thank you for sharing that.

-Denise

 

[Sindy]

Welcome.

You're an excellent writer. Thanks for writing so succinctly and keeping my attention (not an easy task usually I skim.... I've read every word of the two posts of yours I've seen)

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Being a scientologist was always an embarrassment to me. I always found it something I felt guilty about. Walking down a street wearing SO uniform was like walking into the Vatican stark naked, I hated it! Now I'm out it's even worse, but after some good counselling by a very professional lady and by talking my feeling through on here I can honestly say that I can admit to having been a scientologist for years, and that I tell people now, I no longer hate myself for the mistakes I made in my youth, it sounds like your once met now absent exscientologist just hasn't sorted his head out yet, not talking about it is dangerous. The more a person talks about it the more he or she becomes themselves.

 

[Deeana]

There are many scams other than membership in the CofS. Most have heard of the so-called "Nigerean" money scams. Your first reaction to reading that term may be "Oh, who would ever fall for one of those?" Well, people do. Every day. And they lose their money. And they feel humiliated afterwards for having been so dumb.

A huge area of ongoing scamming is called "Romance scamming". These target usually (but not always) more mature folks who have posted an ad on a dating site. A lot of my knowledge of scamming in general began when a longtime friend of mine shared that she had decided to place a profile onto Match.com in order to find "friendship and someone to do things with". Within three weeks I received an email from her with the subject line "I'm engaged!". I thought it must be some kind of a joke until I opened the email and read it. Unbelievable that someone could fall for a scam in just 3 WEEKS!

It took her daughter and I much longer than 3 weeks to open her eyes. In the meanwhile, yes she sent money to the guy (thankfully only $200) and was about to open a new bank account to receive some check from this guy when I found a site called "romancescams.org" and forwarded it to her. She did a lot of reading there and finally extricated herself from the scam.


Then came the self recriminations for having been so stupid and gullible, etc. Finally after months she got over THAT. But I doubt she is running around telling everyone she meets how she was the victim of a scam. But perhaps she should.

There are people who have been in a romance scam for years and who have sent $30,0000, $50,0000 to their scammer.

Another current very popular blackmail scam is against men in particular. It is a woman who begins a "conversation" which rapidly moves to IM chat and becomes quickly very sexual. It then moves to Skype, with the mark being talked into performing sexual acts in front of the camera for the "woman" to watch. This is recorded by the "woman" and then sent to the mark. Cash is demanded, to be sent via Western Union, in order to keep the "woman" from sending it to family, friends and employers and/or posting it on youtube. Many of this type of scam seems to originate in the Phillipines.

There are several very good anti-scam websites that offer details and help to victims. There are also scambaiting sites - these are folks who engage with the scammers and then post the results online. Some of them are just hilarious. One in particular, a "priest" who requires the scammer to join his "Holy Church of the Tattooed Saint" priceless. http://www.419eater.com/html/okorie.htm

Anyway, there are lots of trusting folks who fall for scams. The Cof$ is just another scam. It is a huge one, but that's what it is.

 

[TG1]

There should be classes in high school for kids about ALL these scams.

I think (?) that the new critical thinking K-12 curricula might actually help with some of these vulnerabilities.

(It's my day to play Pollyanna.)

TG1

 

[WildKat]

There are many scams other than membership in the CofS. Most have heard of the so-called "Nigerean" money scams. Your first reaction to reading that term may be "Oh, who would ever fall for one of those?" Well, people do. Every day. And they lose their money. And they feel humiliated afterwards for having been so dumb.

A huge area of ongoing scamming is called "Romance scamming". These target usually (but not always) more mature folks who have posted an ad on a dating site. A lot of my knowledge of scamming in general began when a longtime friend of mine shared that she had decided to place a profile onto Match.com in order to find "friendship and someone to do things with". Within three weeks I received an email from her with the subject line "I'm engaged!". I thought it must be some kind of a joke until I opened the email and read it. Unbelievable that someone could fall for a scam in just 3 WEEKS!

It took her daughter and I much longer than 3 weeks to open her eyes. In the meanwhile, yes she sent money to the guy (thankfully only $200) and was about to open a new bank account to receive some check from this guy when I found a site called "romancescams.org" and forwarded it to her. She did a lot of reading there and finally extricated herself from the scam.


Then came the self recriminations for having been so stupid and gullible, etc. Finally after months she got over THAT. But I doubt she is running around telling everyone she meets how she was the victim of a scam. But perhaps she should.

There are people who have been in a romance scam for years and who have sent $30,0000, $50,0000 to their scammer.

Another current very popular blackmail scam is against men in particular. It is a woman who begins a "conversation" which rapidly moves to IM chat and becomes quickly very sexual. It then moves to Skype, with the mark being talked into performing sexual acts in front of the camera for the "woman" to watch. This is recorded by the "woman" and then sent to the mark. Cash is demanded, to be sent via Western Union, in order to keep the "woman" from sending it to family, friends and employers and/or posting it on youtube. Many of this type of scam seems to originate in the Phillipines.

There are several very good anti-scam websites that offer details and help to victims. There are also scambaiting sites - these are folks who engage with the scammers and then post the results online. Some of them are just hilarious. One in particular, a "priest" who requires the scammer to join his "Holy Church of the Tattooed Saint" priceless. http://www.419eater.com/html/okorie.htm

Anyway, there are lots of trusting folks who fall for scams. The Cof$ is just another scam. It is a huge one, but that's what it is.

I have two friends one of which fell for the "romance scam" and lost about $5,000 and the other one who fell for the "we're gonna send you money" scam. They were both horribly embarrassed. The second one lost also $5,000 and they were trying to get her to go for another $5,000 before she caught on. So embarrassed she couldn't tell anyone but her best friend about it (who told me). Both of these were really sad to hear about. Heartbreaking really. People that run these scams need to be shot. Seriously.

 

[Deeana]

Most of the romance scams originate from young men in Nigeria or Ghana, where being a scammer is an organized business. These young men pay for computer time and pay for phone time. They will have numerous "marks" in play at once and at times, according to both my friend and what I've read, will even call the mark by an incorrect name. Plus they can never spell, have horrendous writing skills (except when sending some copied love poem that was written in the 1800s), and have thick accents on the telephone.

After my friend forwarded a copy of a poetic email sent to her by the scammer - who had also sent a gift of jewelry to her home (in order to verify her mailing address) - her daughter was able to find the exact email on the web. Did that stop it? No! The scammer explained to her that he was "not good with words" and so had copied something from the web to send to her. And she fell for THAT!

It was scary to both the daughter and myself to see just how entrenched her belief was in this "romance". And she kept telling us "but he hasn't ASKED me for anything. He has sent me gifts!" Well, within another week or two he did ask her for something. And they start out with a small amount, to "groom" the victim. The bank account involvement goes to the scammer sending a check in some rather large amount, say $5,000, and directing the mark to deposit it at their bank, take out $4,500 the next day and send it via Western Union to the scammer. They tell the mark to keep some of the money in payment for doing all of this, and they have concocted some asinine story about why this check must come to the "mark". Days later, after the cash has been sent by the mark, they get notice from their bank that the deposited check was no good. Often this results in the mark bouncing checks. And they are legally responsible for the cash they took out of the account! So it really leaves them in a bad way.

It was not until she was being heavily pressured to get involved in receiving one of these "checks" that my friend finally "woke up". So her loss was only $200.

It is so unfortunate that the internet has facilitated this type of thing. But I suppose it is just part of the good and bad side of things. I personally would not wait for the schools to be teaching children about scams. I've talked to my own now teenage grandkids about the sex scam aimed at men . Because I never want one of them to get caught up in one of these things.

By the way, on the male sex scam thing, apparently if you just don't respond to them, they just go away. They don't even have the time to waste to post the video, because they need to use their time to move on to the next mark. These are usually very poor and desperate people who do this. They do not even own their own computer, so when they get in front of one, they have to make every minute count. Posting videos does NOT make them any money.

And at this point, I will stop highjacking this thread!

 

[La La Lou Lou]

I have two friends one of which fell for the "romance scam" and lost about $5,000 and the other one who fell for the "we're gonna send you money" scam. They were both horribly embarrassed. The second one lost also $5,000 and they were trying to get her to go for another $5,000 before she caught on. So embarrassed she couldn't tell anyone but her best friend about it (who told me). Both of these were really sad to hear about. Heartbreaking really. People that run these scams need to be shot. Seriously.

I had someone like that, he fell in love with me after reading one paragraph, I was intrigued by then, it takes me a little longer, OK a lot longer, he was apparently in Sydney and wrote excellent English, then I had further messages, he had travelled to Lagos (Nigeria) his dad who was Scottish, his mum was Nigerian (strange that he looked so pink in his pictures) his dad had millions owing to him, all he needed was few grand to give the lawyer and the money would be released and he could get that orphanage he'd always wanted. Strangely his writing skills had changed. I asked him for his bank details and was surprised to find that his ability to spell was deteriorating badly, it must have been the stresses. As far as I know he's still waiting in the bank in Lagos.

 

[Deeana]

La la,
They are ALWAYS of "mixed heritage", there is ALWAYS a large sum of money that is due them, they ALWAYS start out by living somewhere near to you - at least in the same country, they ALWAYS have to travel to Nigeria, they ALWAYS need money in order to get their hands on the large sum of money, and there is USUALLY ALWAYS support of an orphanage involved.

The reason the spelling/grammar ability changes is that you may be dealing with more than one person. They hand things off to each other.

Please be very careful in the future. There are some anti-scam sites that say they will keep the IPS info on anyone who did interact with them, even if they got no money from them, and will attempt to re-engage the person at some future time.

FWIW my friend who has not, it seems, learned her lesson about "meeting someone on the internet" tells me she recently joined a much smaller, more locally based religion-based "make a friend site". Within days she was contacted by another scammer. She recognized the pattern very quickly this time. She went to the "romancescams.org" site and FOUND THE PHOTO he sent among their gallery of scammer photos!

I've suggested she join a book club or a local church or take a class or SOMETHING other than to use internet dating sites as a means of "meeting someone".

 

[Udarnik]

There should be classes in high school for kids about ALL these scams.

I think (?) that the new critical thinking K-12 curricula might actually help with some of these vulnerabilities.

(It's my day to play Pollyanna.)

TG1

'Fraid you are a Pollyanna. It's better than nuthin', but I've got 2 kids in the new curriculum, and it's not all that great. I let the oldest see selected posts here because she occasionally lets it slip that she thinks she's too smart for this shit.

She's almost 11, sue her.

Well, I keep pointing out that she has the advantage of a goodly portion of the Internet, and 20 / 20 hindsight. They don't talk about Xenu when you first hit the door. I think that's starting to sink in. Your stories here help keep her more grounded.

The curriculum does not.

Hey, that's it! ESMB as a required part of the curriculum.

Shit! I'd better clean up my language.

 

[TG1]

Oh, well, I figured the curricula might be a better deal than the current "No Child Left Behind" baloney. Thanks for the reality check, Udarnik.

Your daughter is lucky to have you as a parent. Although for the next five or six years, she probably won't give you any credit for anything.

TG1

 

[La La Lou Lou]

La la,
They are ALWAYS of "mixed heritage", there is ALWAYS a large sum of money that is due them, they ALWAYS start out by living somewhere near to you - at least in the same country, they ALWAYS have to travel to Nigeria, they ALWAYS need money in order to get their hands on the large sum of money, and there is USUALLY ALWAYS support of an orphanage involved.

The reason the spelling/grammar ability changes is that you may be dealing with more than one person. They hand things off to each other.

Please be very careful in the future. There are some anti-scam sites that say they will keep the IPS info on anyone who did interact with them, even if they got no money from them, and will attempt to re-engage the person at some future time.

FWIW my friend who has not, it seems, learned her lesson about "meeting someone on the internet" tells me she recently joined a much smaller, more locally based religion-based "make a friend site". Within days she was contacted by another scammer. She recognized the pattern very quickly this time. She went to the "romancescams.org" site and FOUND THE PHOTO he sent among their gallery of scammer photos!

I've suggested she join a book club or a local church or take a class or SOMETHING other than to use internet dating sites as a means of "meeting someone".

Tell your friend to google their names, these guys don't change their names much. I learned cynicism, I was naturally wide eyed and naive, there are nice people out there, they just don't fall in love after reading one paragraph, and ask for a few grand to release money to save the poor little children. It was all too predictable.

Also there was a very interesting documentary recently about how dating sites sell their mailing lists to companies based outside of the EU restrictions on keeping sensitive data. The lists include details about you gleamed by call centre operatives from Russia Ghana etc. These people are paid to make you think they're interested so that you think the site is full of people seriously looking for a partner. It keeps people interested. There is really no reason to look for a partner in a different continent. There's plenty of potential partners living much nearer and also anyone who is interested in someone in a different continent simply doesn't really want a relationship.

This is good clip for your friend to use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIIs0uNw1SU

 

[aegerprimo]

Hi Amy!

Thank you for coming here, and for starting this thread. I am learning a lot from the people here at ESMB.

I was like your friend.

I walked away from Scientology around 1998. Until recently (past 6 months or so) I (finally) consider myself without a doubt an EX-Scientologist. Up to that point, I thought the Co$ was clearing the planet (and all that rot).

Nonetheless, I was embarrassed about talking about my past involvement with Scientology. My cognitive dissonance was a festering wound and I did not realize it. My spouse met me after I was active in Scientology. I have never been able to talk about it. Questions would come up like “What is it that Scientologists do? Courses or something?” I would say “Yes, something like that.” Or “Is Scientology a cult?” My answer, “I don’t know, a lot of people think it is I guess.” Oh my favorite question, “Why do Scientologists spend so much money on whatever they do?” My answer, “Um, er, uh, ummmm, hmm, uh… let’s talk about something else.”

Since coming here, I am not embarrassed or afraid to talk about Scientology or my past involvement. Actually, I now find it exciting. This is from one of my recent posts…

Not only have I been telling some of my in-the-cult story here, but have been sharing with my family and friends recently. Their reactions have been filled with understanding and love – very unexpected, surprised the heck out of me really. I expected reactions more like “what a whack-job, stay away!” Come to find out, a close friend even had a family member who was involved in the Mormon cult for a while. I received unanticipated and fantastic advice from her! Then an old high school buddy I found out grew up in a cult! Amazing. There are many more people, than we realize (than I realized), out there who have been hurt by cults.

Your friend is lucky to have you.

Wounds heal, but they can leave scars. Scars can often fade over time. ESMB is a place where we can compare our scars. I don’t mind mine anymore, and have found that they are part of what makes me who I am.

 

[NoName]

So let me ask this.....

I lurked on ESMB and Marty's site when I saw some outpoints doing some extremely low-level stuff. Because I feared disconnection from someone I loved (and still love) very much, I simply lost interest, got too busy, didn't have the next $500 or so they wanted.

I've amassed significant evidence that this person is now out. We've had some talks about finances where severe distress has been expressed about the current state of affairs.

Is there a good way to get to the heart of the matter with this person?

 

[He-man]

So let me ask this.....

I lurked on ESMB and Marty's site when I saw some outpoints doing some extremely low-level stuff. Because I feared disconnection from someone I loved (and still love) very much, I simply lost interest, got too busy, didn't have the next $500 or so they wanted.

I've amassed significant evidence that this person is now out. We've had some talks about finances where severe distress has been expressed about the current state of affairs.

Is there a good way to get to the heart of the matter with this person?

Hmm, there probably is, and it probably starts with a cup of coffee and an open honest talk between 2 adults. Let him/her talk and listen to what he/she has to say, try not to be judgemental or come across that way.

I can't say form your post from who the severe distress came, but there is always a way out from that.

 

[TG1]

I think in your shoes (and I have been in similar ones), I'd find a way to "open the conversation" so they ask you questions. And once they ask YOU questions, they've given you a social contract (so to speak) to ask THEM questions.

To open the conversation, I'd drop a one-liner like these (not all of them -- just one):

1. I think I've taken my last Scientology course.

2. I got something from my time in Scientology, but lately I've been having second thoughts.

3. I've been thinking about my Scientology experiences and now have a different take on things than I once did.

YMMV, since you know your friend and how s/he might respond, and I don't.

Good luck!

TG1