Message from a friend still in

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Just received on my email this morning. Friend asked me to post on this board which friend has visited, but is not yet registered member.

Roy, the EP's EP

Please post this:

I am posting this for my friend.



I am a Class IV pre GOT Auditor, Interned.
Staff for Several years.
Spent about 100Gs on the Bridge, mid grade 0
Most friends are Scn.
Had unshakable faith
Never allowed myself to even consider negativity about Scn.
Would take any out tech as something that I need to take responsibility for and apply KSW1 to fix it personally.
Now have data that is not aligning up for me.
I was always taught not to listen to the entheta and ignore it.
I now want to apply the data series and find out more truth.
One cannot find out truth with out looking at both sides and I'm convinced that the COS will not tell both sides.
I have been researching to find more truth for about 5 days thus far.
I am only confused by this hearsay and 1/2 truths and unsubstantiated data and unverifiable facts.

I know the tech works. I have helped many, many people. No doubt.
Is it the only hope for mankind? Are the OT Levels oversold? Maybe. Does that make it an evil cult? I don’t know about that.

What I have heard, mostly hearsay, motivators etc. do cast doubt on the COS but still just Natter.

Please post more factual info to the above out-points and add what you think is necessary.

I have seen the Jason Beghe Interview.

DM beats people up. I know 1st hand of him bumping someone a bit and yelling but not beating up.
All the upper execs are locked up and doing MEST work full time and come out at events for Cameos.
Several Cl XIIs are out auditing rogue in the field and will do the Ls for you at your home.
The lower Bridge is great, I know it works and is valid, Clear I'm uncertain of and the tech gets totally screwed up at the OT levels and the OT levels only screw people up.
Only 3 people instead of 12 are in the Watchdog Group.
DM owns Author Services and Bridge.
New Grades are coming out that will be shorter.
People are leaving ANZO at the rate of a couple a day.
The orgs numbers are dwindling.
There is rampant altering of the tech volumes, etc.
Int Mgmt went from 1200 staff to about 250, they are getting all new unstable terminals.
The OT Levels were squirrel.
LRH was a heavy drinker.
He broke his back in a motorcycle accident and pretended that OTIII caused it.
He went to England because he was kicked out of the US, not because England was on the Comm lines of the world.
He wasn't OT enough to move things in the early days and started Declaring people that could.
Many forced abortions occur in the Sea Org.
DM runs the church and tom cruise is 2nd in line
On the Freewinds, the first day is Part 1 and 2 of Maiden Voyage and the 2nd day is all for Tom Cruises birthday.
David Mayo was kicked out but was the only guy that LRH wanted to audit him and do assists on him in the final years.
LRH had a bad military record.
LRH was a con artist.
Someone else figured out the laws of listing and nulling.
LRH took psyche drugs and died with it in his system.
The final RJ was a computer generated hoax.
He lived in seclusion his final years.


This is start.
Unknown

[gomorrhan]

Good to hear someone is doing some investigation for themselves.

Hope your friend continues to visit the site. I can't answer questions that aren't specifically asked.

Don't know what data isn't aligning. All of the things listed are not new or surprising... what's the question?

[Wisened One]

Wow.

Hope this person gets registered and starts posting more soon!

[skydog]

Ultimately, the truth is what you believe. You arrive at the truth by weighing the various evidence which is available. Evidence consists of the live testimony, written statements, pictures, documents, etc. Bear in mind that the stories you read of a person's personal experience are not subject to cross examination. Also bear in mind that most of the rebuttal evidence provided by the Co$ is also not subject to cross examination either. In viewing these stories ask yourself does this person have a reason to lie? Where they in a position to see or hear what they claim they saw or heard. What parts of their story are contradicted or corroborated by other evidence that has been proven to your satisfaction. How much of what is said is consistent or inconsistent with your personal experiences and common sense.

You have begun the journey. Best wishes.

[Carmel]

Hey Roy,

Good to see you posting this for your friend. I understand that he's in a tough position right now, so I'd like to put in my 2 cents worth and a couple of suggestions.

To Roy's friend,

Glad you are looking at this stuff. As much of a "mind fu'k" that it can be and is for so many, it's better to do than not. So much of it, you can't pull strings on to any reliable source. So much of it can be directly aligned (and just as bad), as the crap propoganda that the church dishes out. But, much of it, you can cross reference, and pull down to a conclusion/resolve. IMO, too many have done a complete pendulum swing, gone from one extreme to the other, from totally "in and pro" Scn, to totally "out and anti". IMO too many do not differentiate between the technology within Scn (however hell it got there, or by whoever put it there) and that of the organization that it is today, and has been for however long. As they say, I think too many have "chucked out the baby with the bath water". While I don't like this, I understand it.

Given that you are pre GAT trained, and been around, then no doubt you will have seen more than a few discrepancies between what you were trained on and know, and what you see being applied. My advice to you, is to look at your own experience, what you have observed, look at the outpoints - then use the net with all its sites, to pull strings on those specific things/issues.
No doubt you have already stepped back and are looking. The more you do that, the better.

Don't go on hoping, or excusing, or ignoring etc. There is so much data on the net, that one can't possibly pull strings on it all, to a resolve on what is true and what isn't. By the same token there are some things that can be cross referenced and verified. You'll probably also find things that are so real to you, that you'll know them to be true (and certainly things that aren't). It can be both tough and easy - to just "go on hoping", to want it to be "as it should be", and to accept the concept that it won't ever be as you might want it to be. So if you can, or as much as you can, step back with the most objective viewpoint you can muster, to look at this stuff.

Looking just at the organization; how it operates; how it treats its parishoners, staff and crew; it's satisfaction with results in auditing and training; and general mindset within it - compared to what you know and believe it should be, is a good place to start.

Some things are indisputable, when you track them down.
- A good story to read on this board is one by Feral, called "My bridge to OTVII" (He and his wife have only just recently left the church - his wife having only just recently completed OT7).
- Another (through google) is the Jeff Hawkins story "Counterfeit Dreams" (SO member of many years).
- The Greg and Debra Barnes video is another interesting story. (http://www.xenutv.com/interviews/free-barnes.htm).
- Recently "Rae" left the CofS, and gave some interesting current data about what is going on in LA (go to members list, name, then "posts" and scroll back to the first few posts Rae made when came on the board)

From data then observation (or vice versa) there is much you can pull strings on, that can or will reveal the truth.

All the best with this.

Cheers,
Ceedia

[klidov]

To Roy:

thank you for putting this post up. Really, thank you {{hugs}}

To the anonymous author:

It takes courage to even question your belief system. I takes a greater courage to admit you might have been wrong. I admire the fact you wish to see things from all sides.

You will find (sadly enough) the things in "Tech" that work, well....LRH stole those ideas from other people.

But you will find your own "truth". I am a stranger, but I have faith in you. Please join this board. There are non-members (of the Church) that do care about you.

Peace, Love, and Light on your journey...

K

[nexus100]

If we apply a scale of love, help, duty, conversion, the first step into a COS organization will be conversion. That is where the moneymakers in the COS operate. Therefore that harmonic level is constantly butting heads with individuals who want to move toward the love end of the scale. Those who convert the best will be considered most valuable by the organization. Eventually everyone is driven into a constant harmonic level of conversion and escapes one way or another. Or goes mad as being at the point of decision is the opposite of understanding. Understanding is the better part of what we are.

My personal belief is the tech and the "bridge" are far far far longer and more complicated than necessary. The closer a "tech" is to how we are, the better. SCN tech is ridiculously complex. Beings are simple. One could say "But case is complex". Are you handling the case or the person?

None of that means people can't be helped by this tech. But they should take care not to believe any SCN data and only use it to look at their own issues as they wish to do so. That isn't easy and will likely lead to some confusion at some point. I don't see it as a good step. But that is my opinion.

[EastAnon]

EP,

I have taken the freedom to copy you here.

Some very valuable answers there!

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Originally Posted by EastAnon

EP,

I have taken the freedom to copy you here.

Some very valuable answers there!

Most excellent thing done here EastAnon! Thank you for that.

Roy, the Ethics Particle's End Phenomena

[Pitbull]

Hi Friend still in:

Great to see you are beginning to look. As you are only on your Grade O,
you may not have run across the heavy sec-checking yet.

Just wait till your innocent questioning comes up (if it does). There was always
something very disturbing to me about how difficult it was to get any real information from up lines. You were never pointed to any "realities" just told to read policy and take responsiblity.

But as we all know, the Church is run by people, not policy. And from what many say, Dave Miscavige has way too much power and has been the main source of upset. I still don't understand how one individual managed to take some much control. But that's what has happend, and its up to all of us to say NO.

The Church was always about us. Those that support it. Its not about management. This is the biggest lie.

That somehow Scientology = Management. And that Management is infallable. We know now that it isn't. And that there is a proponderous amount of evidence that the Bridge is ovesold as you say.

This does not mean that there are not some fantastic things about it. The grades really are marvelous. And the idea of not evaluating for the PC, and other elements of sessions and tech can still be used quite effectively without all the pressure and control the Church puts on members.

In the end, the Church really is not there to support us anyhow. The whole organization as it is now, is primarily set up to keep one or two insiders in power. Thats it. Everyone else is expendible. A very sad state of affairs.
But this is the truth. So many people have left or have been kicked out for one reason or another.