A new theory about what motivated Hubbard (from Chris Shelton's podcast)

Discussion in 'Chris Shelton's Videos' started by Chris Shelton, Aug 13, 2016.

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  1. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    Pink legs and all.
  2. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Have you ever been to this site? http://www.bumwine.com/

    Dat sheit will kills ya dead

  3. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    Ahem. Sorry to interrupt, but the OP?
  4. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Oh pshaw mom - we'uns was jest havin' some fun. Ah suppose Dr. Hubbard wasn't quite in his right mind when he suggested blowin' the brains outta SPs and such like. He do liked blowin and killn a lot - perhaps you recalls him droppin depth charges ona magnetic anomaly in the ocean? Or blasting the crap outa a Mexican island with his ship durin' the war? Or how he popularized killin off the 1.1s and below in Science of Survival.. Say noting of the still in operation, fair game policies?

    Him had a mean streak, and if Chris and his shrink friend say sparks were flying through his synapses and caused him to do all kinda crazy crap that woulda got him on the Group W bench with all the mother rapers and father rapers, well I believes him, an dis hear colt 45 shit is but the tip of the iceberg.

    So it be right there, inconvertabobble proof Chris and fren is 100 an 10 percent right, and this apparent derail, is actually right in tune wid the OP


  5. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    Here are the references from sensiblyspeaking.com:


    http://www.epilepsy.com/learn/types-epilepsy-syndromes/temporal-lobe-epilepsy From that web page:

    The parade of elephants in this room includes: a) EEG and MRI results and b) evidence of TLE seizures.

    To my knowledge, Hubbard never communicated about having seizures, or about having symptoms that we can attribute to TLE seizures. His military records, which contain numerous reports of medical complaints and medical examinations, do not mention seizures or TLE seizure phenomena. He almost certainly would have included seizures in his malingering postulates and attempts. I have seen no reports from anyone who observed the kind of phenomena in him we can now identify as TLE seizures.

    I also watched some other videos of people undergoing TLE seizures. All the videos show unusual phenomena which would be observable to other people; even more so if repeated over time. If Hubbard had experienced TLE seizures, I don't know how he could have hidden them from his family, messengers, staff, etc. They're not something he would have been able to turn on or off causatively.

    In regard to seizure phenomena, Laor mentioned, "you can see conviction on the face." [Podcast @1:07:04] I think that for Hubbard, we'd have to rule out his "Joy of Creating," tone scale drills, pathological lying, duping delights, etc. We know he sometimes mocked up illnesses and psychoses, after all.

    Laor's theory, as discussed in the podcast does not explain, at least to me, Hubbard's motivation, per Shelton's OP and thread title. And I don't know what Shelton was referring to when he wrote, "what could have been behind much of L. Ron Hubbard's madness and why he did a lot of what he did." What part or aspect of what madness of Hubbard's does Shelton think can be attributed to this medical condition? How would TLE correlate with Hubbard's other personality and psych issues? Pathological lying, for example.

    Laor's theory is interesting, but the podcast interview did not provide me with the closure Shelton said he experienced. From the end of the podcast:

    After I went through all this I could think of other reasons for most or all of the symptoms or traits they discussed. For example, Hubbard's nitrous oxide incident could be attributed to nitrous oxide. :wink2:

    I'd also have to rule out the possibility that Hubbard wasn't just mirroring his guru's TLE symptomology. Maybe his childhood mentor, Snake Thompson? Or his very good friend, Aleister Crowley? Scientologists aren't Thetans. They're Thelamites! (Just kidding, Thelamites.)

    I'll paste the Bear-Fedio list here, as read by Laor at the Getting Clear Conference:

    As Laor mentioned in the podcast, not everyone with TLE has Geschwind Syndrome. Wikipedia: Geschwind Syndrome.

    When I did a self-inventory, my BTs started brainstorming like crazy! :omg: Seriously, I'd think many or most people could admit to experiencing a good number of these symptoms or traits at some time in their life.

    Btw, Gerry did read Excalibur. Tony Ortega wrote about it recently. Gerry has written about it many times.

  6. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    It was not in writing, but mentioned in various lectures. I guess he thought it would be safe enough to refer to R2-45 instead of directly saying "Put a bullet in their fucking heads".
  7. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Go ahead


    Come and take them.
  8. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I'm sure everyone must be well aware of the fact that this nonsense about people reading 'Excalibur' going insane and/or throwing themselves out of skyscraper windows is just Hubbard laying it on thick and making sure people remember who they were dealing with. He was very good at self-promotion was Laffy.
  9. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    my first problem with this pod cast, which I did not listen to, is that my gut feeling is it doesn't confront the multiple things which make up a personality. I have a client who you could describe as bi polar, OCD, micro manager, delusional, manic, hostile, forgiving, friendly, willful, vindictive and patronizing, or a nice effusive happy person, depending on her mood. In all I have read about Hubbard, in the stuff I have read or heard that he has written or spoken, you can't simply pigeon hole him. His traits are all over the place, and change as he grows older.

    My second problem is while the brain can suffer various ills that affect thought and behavior, I don't personally believe that explanation is the only answer to behavior.
    I think there is the mind and the spiritual being as well. So I apologize for not listening to your pod cast, but them's my reasons why I didn't.


  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    yah, it's a stupid marketing trick, what's his name even said it was a old publisher trick. It was said to make Excalibur sound mysterious, important, profound, etc.

    shoot, the fuks still do it with the stupid OT levels, gots to sign waivers and bonds b/4 you get "invited" to do the OT levels, LOL
    they even will have the OT7's 0r 8's sign bonds for special briefings, LOL

    oh, and the worst and most stupid of all is people on OT7 having a safe bolted and glued to a closet in their homes, and walking around with briefcases secured. :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
  11. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    More likely symptoms and an artifact of drug induced delusions and a protracted royal hangover from incessant binge drinking and pill popping...Read Dart Smohen's stuff (whom I knew, interacted with and personally hold to be imminently credible) re: his "Take" on that Era and the Genus of OT III on ESMB, from his first hand and highly "trained & audited" access and perspective. :coolwink:
  12. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    You're most kind, Anonycat. :blush:
  13. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    Here are the relevant links from Dart Smohen:

    and Alan Walters:
  14. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    Not to firebomb and derail the thread . . . but I'm more of a "carry it with
    you life to life" in spirit as opposed to a "brain is the source of all" person.

    But that's the of discussion of myriad other threads on ESMB.

    That said, I thought I'd throw out something that surfaced a couple days ago.
    Sorta confirms my pet theory of evil, if you will.

    Other than food for thought . . . it's sorta funny.
    Pardon me please if you feel it's a derail.* :shrug:

    The waving finger and mouth askew for emphasis; the empty dark eyes. It's all there.
    Different physical cells/brain, however the evil still surfaces.

    *Blame HH since he's in need of some more photo-shooping therapy to run out something or another.

    *Also, sorry for the Goodwin's Law swerve, but it just is. :wink2:

  15. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    A post here has documented the OT3 "discovery"in a firsthand account while with Lafayette. He was REALLY high, and saw a religious procession with a bang, a cherub, etc.

    It was just a really stoned, mentally ill conman at a free outdoor annual event.

    Edit: Posted too late, this has already been explained! Thanks to Dart. :hattip:
  16. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

  17. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't think that is a derail here at all. I originally got into Scientology because I thought it shared my core belief that people were spiritual in nature and their skills and personality traits were the cumulative result of many life times. I still want to believe this but having been snookered once, I temper my blind faith with a desire to experience something more provable.

    One of these things that I need more proof of is the notion that people can be categorized with things like the Tone Scale. Clearly there is some merit to collecting a list of symptoms, characteristics or qualities but I now think these tend to serve a preconceived idea, especially when used as a component to some schedule or scale that calls for ready-to-wear solutions.

    Scientologists become indoctrinated into canned solutions for everything and I think as a group we may find these initially attractive so there may be some benefit to making a deliberate point to separate out acceptance of such things from old lingering habits.

    I'd also add that the older I get, the more I recognize similar personality traits among people with shared genetic origins or environmental influences. Maybe there is a spiritual component but these other causations should not be underestimated.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  18. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on



    That one surely takes up an honored position on the list of:


    Maybe when I have a little time, I'll put something together for the STUPID THREAD that lists out (in no particular order) Dr. Hubbard's ten most audacious whoppers.

    THE EXCALIBUR BIG LIE: Hubbard, terrified that no publisher (or readers) were going to buy his book, tried to drum up interest by making such statements as: stated "four of the first fifteen people who read it went insane". And, when that didn't work (see Wiki) Hubbard's desperation grew; "However, nobody bought the manuscript Forrest J Ackerman, later Hubbard's literary agent, recalled that Hubbard told him 'whoever read it either went insane or committed suicide. And he said that the last time he had shown it to a publisher in New York, he walked into the office to find out what the reaction was, the publisher called for the reader, the reader came in with the manuscript, threw it on the table and threw himself out of the skyscraper window'."

    THE XENU BIG LIE: In the mid 1960s, sixteen years after Dianetics was launched, there were still no Clears and Hubbard needed something new to revive his flagging cult. Suddenly he "discovered" the "ultimate secret of the universe" (again) that happened 75,000,000 years ago. It was so deadly that only he survived learning about it without dying of pneumonia, as he warned mankind would befall them unless they bought the "advanced level" he called OT III. In a remarkably similar warning as he had made with Excalibur, Ron warned his fellow man that if they tried to learn the secret (without becoming a paying customer) they would "freewheel" (go insane) and then die.

    THE DIANETICS BIG LIE: (to be written, including such unforgettable whoppers that it was "a milestone for Man comparable to his discovery of fire and superior to his inventions of the wheel and the arch...")

    THE MESSIANIC SAVIOR BIG LIE: (to be written, including Hubbard's humble hagiographic history as Buddha and other stories of sector-salvaging that only one man in the universe was capable of doing if homo sapiens simply opened up their hearts and checkbooks.... )

    Hey, we've already got at least four (4) of Mankind's Greatest Friends greatest lies! We'll find the rest, but how the hell are we going to stop the list at only ten? LOL
  19. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Subject worthy of it's own thread?

    Wasn't there supposed to be some deadline for the end of the world that we've already missed? Those are always pretty good.
  20. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Yep! I was at an event that Dianna Hubbard was the featured speaker, who said we had until 1984 to save the planet.

    It was one of those: Oh Wow. Did she really say that? moments.