A new theory about what motivated Hubbard (from Chris Shelton's podcast)

Discussion in 'Chris Shelton's Videos' started by Chris Shelton, Aug 13, 2016.

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  1. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Are you sure she didn't say "save Scientology"?
     
  2. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    That 1984 date was what she said - and then she made a reference to the book.

    edit: How the hell did that image turn into a Ron Paul ad? I found another copy. Hopefully it won't transmogrify again

    Mimsey

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  3. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron


    GREAT STUFF, Caroline!:thumbsup::yes::clap: I got sidetracked and far too self-indulgent in my earlier Post on this Thread and, IMO, did a piss poor job framing where I was coming from re: the Podcast. Your Post nails some of the stuff I’d noted while watching the Vid but didn’t include in my post.

    I listed out some of my “stuff” regarding my brain damage but what I did not include was the primary point that full and proper diagnosis of a brain disorder requires physical examination (MRI, X-ray, exploratory surgery, etc), rigorous diagnostic testing, clinical observation, etc. I’ve been through a bunch of that and without it I would not only not have the quality of life I do have but, most certainly, would be dead.

    Knowing what I’ve been through—the detailed and extensive testing, highly specialized knowledge and neurosurgical experience it took to diagnose my case, perform procedures, discern the therapy needs and proscribe treatment protocols—I just don’t see how a TLE “diagnosis” can be made with any accuracy regarding El Ron. However, I do find the Concept, Narrative and presentation to be, personally, fascinating and interesting...Albeit, not exculpatory.

    There are many others that had more interaction and “Face Time” with El Ron that I did. However, over a handful of years I periodically had a number of hours of personal interactions with El Ron and hours upon hours of personal “participation/observation” of Hisself interacting with others and wearing Hisself’s “CommodeDoor Hat”.

    Now, I’m certainly not a qualified observer re: brain disorder symptoms but, I don’t recollect seeing anything in El Ron’s behavior that I directly observed that I would deem as a “Focal Seizure”. Fits of intense and seething anger, loathing and downright hatred and other s**t? Yes. I have never read a first person account be someone that knew El Ron—or been personally told by someone that I knew that had interacted with Hisself—that indicated they observed Hisself having had something like a “Focal Seizure”.

    As far as Excalibur goes and El Ron’s claims regarding Hisself’s “experience” that led to it? WTFK's? El Ron was a skilled, avid and pathological liar so why the F should I believe Hisself’s “Story” re: the "Genus" of EXCALIBUR!?

    Face:)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  4. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    I always love Chris videos and work!

    What he convers in this video is very interesting as to know such conditions may exist since I didn't knew about it.

    Concerning LRH, after all those years (5-6) I read everything I could read about him, including evidences, dox reliable testimonies form LRHinner cirlcle old times, available either here or on some other blogs\websites\mb

    and

    after all those research I have done re: narcissists and malignant narcissists + mental ilness related to bi-polar sever disorders,

    those 2, he was obviously ,suffering, explains it all to me.

    Especially the ''malignancy' of his narcissism...all characteristics match his character.
    He obvioulsy took pleasure in being cruel, otherwise he would have not behave the way he did.

    The difference with mental illness and braindisorders with malignant narcissism lies in this: The pleasure took in being cruel
    and I didn't heard it can be healed at his time.:confused2:
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  5. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    :thumbsup:
     
  6. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    ...


    Hey, there's no reason to get all snippy & snarky. . .

    Because, 1984 came and went 32 years ago--and we're still here. So quite obviously Diana did save the planet.

    In the future try to validate upstats and those advanced OTs who made it go right for all of us smaller beings down here, on this planet.
     
  7. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    Chris Quinn was the handsome young messenger who was in Lafayette's cabin when Otto Roos was brutally and wildly beaten by him. Young Chris cowered in the corner until the brutality ended. We were friends, and that's his eyewitness account. It traumatized Chris, as anyone could understand. All of us go our entire lives without witnessing something like that, but with Lafayette, it could and did happen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  8. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    OK, this works a little better.

    I wonder if she actually read the book, and if so, has she ever recognized the parallels between the 1984 world and the world created by her father?

    I had read the book in High School. I don't know if they do that anymore as it might be too revelatory to be permitted in public education these days. Curious how one can be educated in the ways of dystopia, become incentivized to work against it, and end up a willing minion in it's service nonetheless.

    A few years written off to youthful indiscretion is one thing, but decades or a lifetime - that is a tragedy. I had seen her a couple of times when her hair was at waist length. I liked her piano playing - a kind of lilting improv. I'd hoped she would be the one to some day correct all the misapplied policy, heavy ethics, neglect and abuse.

    Alas, 'twas not to be.
     
  9. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    ..

    I looked into Excalibur a bit further, and so forth. . .

    Very fortunately, the archives from 1938 (year Ron wrote Excalibur) were in good enough condition that we were able to read them and determine who at least two (2) of those people who read Hubbard's manuscript and went insane.

    1. Joseph Stalin, mass murderer of an estimated 20M innocent people. Hubbard emphatically claimed that the Russian government highly very highly valued & desired his work.

    --In 1962 Hubbard sent a letter to President John Kennedy, claiming of the Russian leadership: "Their interest goes back to 1938 when I was offered Pavlov's laboratories by Russia and large sums to go there and complete my work (Excalibur). In 1942 the first manuscript of the work (Excalibur) was stolen in Miami, Florida. In 1950 the only other copy vanished by theft, in Los Angeles."

    --In a 1964 interview with the Saturday Evening Post, Hubbard claimed: "They offered me $200,000, all laboratory facilities, everything I needed in Russia." Then, when he reportedly refused them, his apartment was "blasted open" and his "basic manuscript disappeared". ​

    2. L. Ron Hubbard
     
  10. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    Thank you very much. And from Gerry for your support and understanding over some years. :flowers2::flowers2:

    I went back in the thread and found the post you mentioned. (Post #65.) Thanks for that post too. It must take enormous courage and strength to face and overcome the challenges of seizures and brain injuries or disorders. Your contributions here about your experiences with Hubbard and in and out of Scientology are valuable.

    According to Yuval Laor's intro page on Open Minds, the title of the book he's working on is The Religious Ape: What Cults and Fervor Can Teach Us About the Evolution of Religion, an intriguing title; a book I'd like to read when it comes out. This morning I found a 2011 OCMB research thread started by Laor, which includes some possibly relevant discussion. :coolwink:
     
  11. phenomanon

    phenomanon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I never saw any kind of facial seizure or tic.
     
  12. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you, Caroline. :yes:

    I would have never overcome and be able to deal with my challenges without the dedication, steadfast support and unconditional love of my immediate family (sibs & children) and true friends, and the brilliance, tenacity and caring of my Doctors/Therapists...It's taken some guts and fortitude plus a ton of miraculously good fortune.

    What Gerry did and has done, IMHO, took enormous courage and strength and unwavering presence of mind. :thumbsup:

    Having personally interacted with and observed Gerry in interaction with others "Back In The Days" on the Apollo it, IMO, is important that Folks know what a thoughtful, honest and downright unpretentiously decent human being Gerry is. :clap:

    Thanks for the Links to Dr. Laor's stuff.

    Face:)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  13. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Yeah, I just see a Fuckwit.

    On another thought here, when you see like on football games for instance, 2 guys butting their foreheads together and screaming at each other with the imminent potential of things going physical.....

    If LRH and an outsider did it, without the minders involved, I wonder how it would have played out? I wonder if he would have started blubbering and exited post haste?
     
  14. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Ok, so I broke down my resistance to all things psych (LOL) and listened to the video. It does make a lot of sense. At the rate you are going GP, what condition doesn't Hubbard have? :)

    Thanks for urging me to listen to it. I actually enjoyed it and it was informative.

    I guess we are sleuthing what was up with him....

    Mimsey

    [​IMG]
     
  15. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist


    I also liked it.
    However, I still do not regard past and current psychology as science.
    IMO, the coming decades of further research in neurobiology will develop better info on this topic.
     
  16. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    http://blog.world-mysteries.com/science/the-temporal-lobe-gateway-mystic-or-grave-mistake/

    The Become A Living God blog showed up in google under seizures and spiritual phenomena. The first few paragraphs of his article are interesting. Nothing new really. He has discussed seizures in Haitian ritual on youtube before. Hubbard did, after all, invite communication with outside entities/forces. Seeing angels has been speculated to be associated with TLE in the past too.

    I live next door to someone who has the described symptoms. While it is happening I don't see an aura so to speak, but feel a localized force that spreads out across the space. Like standing on wet lawn when a sheet of uncomfortable energy pervades the atmosphere due to lightning nearby. What's happening in the body is very visible. I've seen the triggers and know about the head injuries from extreme sports. It's usually rages followed by exhaustion.

    http://www.becomealivinggod.com/newsletter/the-5-definitive-stages-of-demonic-possession.html

    Why Do Black Magicians REVERE Demonic Possession?!

    What I bolded made me laugh. The competition lurks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  17. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist


    As a skeptic, what device would I use to measure this?
    Can you demonstrate this phenomenon to skeptics?
     
  18. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    No. I'd have to have filmed an episode to put up beside the list of suggested symptoms. I see this woman every day. I had been told about her five years ago, although not in terms of TLE, by a lady who worked at the hospital. She told me she was afraid this lady could go at any time from an embolism. I was shared some info about earlier tests and the traumas suffered to the head. Dealing with the woman's difficult personality had often left me confused. This thread reminded me of the conversation five yrs ago which meant little to me.
     
  19. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    Has this actually happened to you as you describe it? The 'energy' doesn't pervade the atmosphere so much as travel through the ground, but whatever, the result can be fatal. If you've felt it and lived to tell the tale you might be a bit fortunate IMO.
     
  20. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    I feel VERY fortunate. LOL. Where I am we can get up 200 percent humidity. :coolwink: On land between bodies of water with very tall trees, yep. You can feel the concentrated energy. I have a healthy respect for lightning around the boats and living near the golf course with family being postal carriers. I've also heard some folks say they can feel a malevolence before a tornado flattens. It feels electrical, and like a presence too... forewarning you its ability to smash through.
     

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