A test of whole track recall

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Mimsey Borogrove, Mar 31, 2017.

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  1. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    So we both agree with this idea?


    " That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others."
     
  2. pineapple

    pineapple Patron with Honors

    Interesting, since it seems those who did the CC early on (roughly pre-1970) didn't have to come up with this cog either, or any cog for that matter. In Inside Scientology: How I Joined Scientology and Became Superhuman, Robert Kaufman says there was NO indication on the course of what the EP was, and anyone could attest when they wanted to. William Burroughs, who did the CC around the same time, says he ran the materials "until there wasn't a tick on it" and he was pleased, but never mentions any cog.

    https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/kaufman/isd/isd-3a.htm

    In my time, stating that you'd realized you were mocking up your own bank was definitely required for Dianetic Clear attests, and on the CC as well (based on what others have said; I never did it). It obviously wasn't needed for Natural Clears, since they'd never mocked up a bank in the first place! I assume past-life clears would've needed the same cog as Dn or CC clears, though I don't know: Ron never mentioned a clear cog in Book I. (And he stated circa 1958 that those early clears weren't real clears, just releases, though he later changed his mind on that.)

    I, by the way, was a permanent IV C/S, the equivalent in my time of a Grad V C/S. I was at a mission though, so our clears had to go to the org to attest; I never adjudicated any.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  3. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    This whole 'clear' issue is a real mess and of course that's the way Hubbard liked it, the more obfuscated the better. No one can get a firm grasp of the facts because they are changing all the time.

    Terril's stories amuse me the most. He goes to the powers that be and demands that they recognise his condition as a 'keyed-out-clear' or 'this lifetime clear' or whatever the fuck... (don't bother to clarify Terril, it's not important in this context). It's like going to a university and demanding that they award you a degree. Now what kind of a university gives you one simply because you demand it?

    As for the 'clear cog'. When I attested in 1970 I certainly did not utter the famous phrase 'I'm mocking it up', but I got my cert anyway. Truth is I probably convinced myself that I was clear and rather fancied the idea of going back down to London and swanning around the org bathing in the glory of my new-found super-status. I'm sure it got me into the sack with at least two females there in pretty short order! [noparse]:)[/noparse]
     
  4. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    It was the same for me. If I thought someone was Clear I had to send them to the Advanced Org to attest. But determining if they were Clear involved looking over their entire case history and making an informed judgement.

    Interestingly, special abilities weren't required for someone to be determined Clear. Just as well otherwise nobody would have attested.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  5. pineapple

    pineapple Patron with Honors

    No looking for the all-important "I'm mocking it up." Surprising. You know, although Kaufman says there was no indication of what the CC EP was supposed to be, he quotes Hubbard saying in the instructions, "Remember, it's all in your mind," which may have been a hint.

    https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/kaufman/isd/isd-3a.htm
     
  6. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist


    Okay, I'll try to translate this into wog language... you got past an inferiority complex that you once had.
     
  7. wigee1

    wigee1 Patron with Honors

    Mess a Understatement!!
    I Audited my Girlfriend one night in Bed, I was pretty exhausted from Building all day (as I was a building contractor) playing in a band , recording with the band and,running out of my House a small City Office.Book1 and other stuff.Life was full on , and I liked it.
    I,m running book 1 sort of ,She had issues , and I'm half asleep,I'm so tied I just wanted to go to sleep. and I'm guiding her through stuff about 1 hour goes by, next minute pow! she breaks through it and is beaming ,I realize I've hit pay dirt, we jump out of bed , and in the kitchen, having coffees' talking non stop , It was one of those most exciting periods of my life , at 4.30 am I decided not to go back to sleep , as I started at 7.00am , I might as well stay up.
    Move further on , she goes into Auckland Org and wants to attest to Clear,
    Now I have no notes , Its definitely not standard, Auditing someone in bed?? , didnt have the Clear cog ,But fuck did she dramatically change.
    The black mass just disappeared,and here I am looking at this stunningly beautiful woman thats right in front of me. so I was changing as well ,We both often talk about it,
    Now the C/s gets confused because , nobody attests to Clear on Book 1 ,This would be in the 80s, even though its in the book, because nobody does enough Hours,
    That was the first realization that I was the only one in Nz that was doing lots of book 1 Auditing, Most people move onto scientology,
    They let her attest to Clear. After all its in the Book , So words like Standard , Clear , Does not exist , and is a crock of shit, and the EP just gets moved around to suit , and when that does not work , Blame someone else ,
    This brings me to another Question , the people that were trained as C/Ss , must have realized nothing worked as stated and only worked some of the time
    a real hit and miss.
    Granitt.
     
  8. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader


    You are so unkind . . . :eyeroll::biggrin:


    His win was BIGGER than that! . . . could it be that he became aware of the fact that he actually exists!?! :hide:

    :bravo::aliengreeting:

    R
     
  9. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Thanks for the defence :)

    I answered his question politely and he shat all over that.
    Thus I didn't think I'd waste mine or the boards time
    responding or insulting.
     
  10. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    Yes, Terril - you quoted your hero LRH.

    Do you think your beloved scn allows it's member, critics, X members or anyone else to follow this ?

    " That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others."

    It's a great sentiment. It's well written, but, likie so much of scn it was written for PR purposes only.

    I do believe that sentence. Yes, it allows to people to come on this board & LIE about their wins & gains in scn. And lie about the goodness of scn.

    You get to do that - but some people are always going to call you on the BS. Always.

    And politely enough to stay - mostly - within in the rules of the board where it's posted :)
     
  11. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist


    Believe it or not, I wasn't trying to be insulting or unkind.

    If a person is going to mention items about "their case" using Scientologese I might try to translate it into wog language.
    Maybe I was too blunt and should have used more words. :confused2:
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  12. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Well, I think most people agree with that, however Hubbard didn't although we thought he did, :roflmao:

    But, I'd probably add an amendment to that statement something in order of

    yes, all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others,

    and all men have the right to use logic and propel men of opinion to do the same.

    :confused2:
     
  13. We're discovering with the great increase in knowelge that wasn't there before.
    We can understand that human history goes back farther which comfirmed the great
    historians Herodotus and Plutarch meaning Hubbard can be seen in the same light. That's not the same as saying everything Hubbard did was accurate, the ice age was there and so was human civilization and religion, some of that destiny can be recalled.
     
  14. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    you know with what you wrote above, you sound like a person who wrote for the scientology Advance Magazine?

    :confused2:

    Do you have whole track recall or not? And can you prove it, how so?
     
  15. pineapple

    pineapple Patron with Honors

    No, I disgree. Clear and OT are a crock of shit as you say, but that doesn't mean nothing worked as stated. I have seen lots of good results from auditing, when you're addressing what the pc is actually interested in handling. But a ridiculous amount of time was spent addressing other things that the pc only submitted to because they had to do it to get to some later step.

    I'm thinking here mostly of hundreds of hours of drug handling. Nobody was that enthusiastic about this after the initial thrill of running dianetics and going past track. I don't think it did any good, and probably even INTENTIONAL harm. The tacit acceptance of whatever the pc came up with as "real" led to an inability to distinguish fantasy from reality. I think this was INTENTIONAL brainwashing, a set-up for the later self-hypnosis of the upper levels.

    Life Repair and Grades most people were happy with. I've seen big changes from objectives, as they used to be run on the HQS or TR's and Objectives courses. My first win as an auditor was auditing a very "solid" twin on HQS, and CCH's and Op Pro by Dup really did bring him out of himself a lot. He became a happier person.

    There are a lot of things stated in absolute terms in scn that shouldn't be, for example: "All blows are caused by overts." "All ARC breaks are caused by missed withholds." "All illness is caused by PTSness." I think these things are TRUE SOME OF THE TIME. I've actually seen examples of these things. But they AREN'T true all the time. There were times in scn when I suspected this and it did chip away at my belief in it.

    You talk about the great results you got auditing your girl on Book I, so you know good results are possible, which contradicts the statement that "nothing works as stated." (Yes, declaring her clear was ridiculous.) There were a lot of things that only worked some of the time. And some things that never seemed to work at all, but we kept on doing them anyway.

    I never saw or did Book I, by the way. It wasn't taught or practiced when I was in scn (1970's). I did hear an old 1950 tape of LRH doing it.
     
  16. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    If there is a common theme - it is the overkill Hubbard introduced into his tech. In my own auditing on the expanded grades - there were so many god damn help processes that I had enough. The fools, took that to mean I was done on grade one, when I wasn't. If the c/s had duplicated my com, he/she would have ditched the O/R help processes and moved on to the next series of processes on problems. This overkill is being visited on the remaining Scientologists in the form of endless re-dos ordered by the clueless DM.

    I pity those who are still slogging away.

    However! If ever there was a good process - it is the Self Analysis book. I was auditing this flighty woman and the change it brought about in her was amazing.

    Mimsey
     
  17. pineapple

    pineapple Patron with Honors

    My biggest gripes would be the endless DRD's, clearing EVERY little word to an F/N, and the Purif. I think even LRH realized the DRD's were going too long, hence Dn Clear. But then he locked clears out of Dns completely. It could be a good thing if you were running stuff you actually wanted to run.

    I never got to do that! It was on the HQS checksheet and I was looking forward to it, but my twin had come so far uptone after Op Pro by Dup that the sup wanted to graduate us while he was still on a big win. (A big win for him: he now spoke occasionally, and even smiled.) And I'm sure the sup needed the stat, too. I made a feeble protest, but the sup said, "Well, you can do that later on your own." I never did.

    I COULD have turned to the front of the HQS pack and shown him the "Tech Degrades" bulletin, which forbade "omitting items from a checksheet," but it didn't occur to me at the time. Not until much later. Damn!
     
  18. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Your addition is implied by the original.
     
  19. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Yes CO$ does not follow that statement.

    BTW I don't lie about my wins, or anything else for that matter.
     
  20. Elronius of Marcabia

    Elronius of Marcabia Silver Meritorious Patron

    Terril said

    "I answered his question politely and he shat all over that.
    Thus I didn't think I'd waste mine or the boards time
    responding or insulting."

    I think he just took the huge puff and bloat out of your claim and perhaps
    brought it back into common language Terril :thumbsup:

    It may have been premature and overly generous considering your respnse :roflmao:
     

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