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RolandRB

Rest in Peace
I was trying to find a point of agreement with you Roland, unfortunately your brain appears to be too addled to read any messages openly. Nisargadatta was making the same point as you, but your eyes and brain didn't see it and you were compelled to write an abusive dismissive comment instead, so sad for you Roland.

Then I'll explain it in terms you will understand. Here goes ....... There is no point embarking on a journey to know something if there is nothing to be "known". Saying that the journey itself for seeking knowledge that is not there to be gained is the goal in itself is a blatantly stupid statement. That it was written down maybe thousands of years ago makes no difference. People knew less then than they do now. What they wrote ain't worth reading.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Then I'll explain it in terms you will understand. Here goes ....... There is no point embarking on a journey to know something if there is nothing to be "known". Saying that the journey itself for seeking knowledge that is not there to be gained is the goal in itself is a blatantly stupid statement. That it was written down maybe thousands of years ago makes no difference. People knew less then than they do now. What they wrote ain't worth reading.

Somebody is getting something out of God. Look at all the time and effort spent pursuing it by so many people.

Look at the faces of those who have "Found it".

They look happy. And fulfilled.

When you talk to them they will tell you, quite often, that it was the most wonderful experience of their lives.

Yet you say that they are just stupid or delusional.

Is it stupid or delusional to seek experiences which produce this much joy in your life?

Or is it stupid or delusional to believe that since you can not experience it, no one else can or should, either?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
And Roland, your point about how seeking God just gets in the way of recovering from Scientology...well I just think that's the spirokeets talkin'.

Because, for me, Scientology was a route to God. At least that is what I asked for, and was told it would be. Imagine my shock, 13 years later on the BC, to hear Hubbard tell me in a tape that there was no God.

It was only when I recognized that I had been tricked, and derailed from my purpose to seek God, that I fully left Scientology. And every continued experience of seeking God for me has illuminated one more aspect of Hubbard's con, and helped me to recover from having trusted, and been derailed from seeking God.

So no - seeking God is not an impediment to recovery from Scientology. For me, it fuels my recovery. And I've seen it fuel many others', as well.

Maybe it's not a correct path for YOUR recovery.

Maybe you just need to handle your spirokeets and you'll be fine.
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
And one more thing, Roland.

The technology to handle your spirokeets can be found in a book by Kurt Vonnegut called "Breakfast of Champions".

Happy hunting.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Somebody is getting something out of God. Look at all the time and effort spent pursuing it by so many people.

Look at the faces of those who have "Found it".

They look happy. And fulfilled.

When you talk to them they will tell you, quite often, that it was the most wonderful experience of their lives.

Yet you say that they are just stupid or delusional.

Is it stupid or delusional to seek experiences which produce this much joy in your life?

Or is it stupid or delusional to believe that since you can not experience it, no one else can or should, either?


Clams can look happy and fulfilled after coming out of session. I am sure you have seen the pictures in the Flag magazines. It does not mean it is valid.

Do you think you can find God where Jesus failed? Jesus said that the Second Coming was going to happen in some of the lifetimes of his followers. He told Caiphas that he would witness the Second Coming. It didn't happen, did it? Do you think you can find God where Jesus failed? If so then tell us about your better qualities that make you more eligible.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Clams can look happy and fulfilled after coming out of session. I am sure you have seen the pictures in the Flag magazines. It does not mean it is valid.

Do you think you can find God where Jesus failed? Jesus said that the Second Coming was going to happen in some of the lifetimes of his followers. He told Caiphas that he would witness the Second Coming. It didn't happen, did it? Do you think you can find God where Jesus failed? If so then tell us about your better qualities that make you more eligible.

I had asked you whether it was stupid or delusional to seek experiences which brought so much joy into your life, as seeking God does to so many people.

Was this your answer?

I can't tell.
 
It was only when I recognized that I had been tricked, and derailed from my purpose to seek God, that I fully left Scientology.
So no - seeking God is not an impediment to recovery from Scientology. For me, it fuels my recovery. And I've seen it fuel many others', as well.

Hi Alanzo,
In early Scientology and Dianetics - Ron Hubbard avoided defining the Eighth Dynamic as people have so many differing "mind creations" of God. Some see God as a "noun" and others see god as a "verb". eg. God is love. Some see God as the Jehovah of the Old Testament who described himself as a jealous and angry God demanding obedience. Others see Jesus as an interceder between themselves and God. Many who believed in a God also have the opposite belief of a devil or Satan in place which then can explain the cruelties and evil that occurs on Earth.
Ron Hubbard researched the technology of Scientology but was as human as you and I. He had human opinions about many things and some of those opinions were allowed to creep into the technology and became confused with the tech. The technology is only as valid as it is applied. And it should be applied as given in the "Auditor's Code". For Ron to state that there is no God is a violation of that code, as it is an evaluation and invalidation of those who have that "mind creation".
If you are still interested in the technology then it will be quite important to distinguish between Ron Hubbard; the fiction writer, LRH; the technical director, LRH the Commodore; the Ship's captain; and Ron; the man.
Also to be able to differentiate between his opinions and the tech.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Also to be able to differentiate between his opinions and the tech.

Why? Why would 'His' opinions be any less valid than 'The Tech'?
And, vice versa.

Ron *used* 'The Tech'; His 'opinions' are formulated by the *Source* of 'Tech'.

The Tech *is* Ron; He is Source.
If His 'opinions' are fallible, so is 'The Tech'.

Zinj
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
If you are still interested in the technology then it will be quite important to distinguish between Ron Hubbard; the fiction writer, LRH; the technical director, LRH the Commodore; the Ship's captain; and Ron; the man. Also to be able to differentiate between his opinions and the tech.

Sorry, LoftyCrane.

All those "hats" you describe were all part of Hubbard's same plan - to produce a 100 million dollar estate for himself. And that's it.

You can separate out those things for yourself if you want.

But I've already learned my lesson on Scientology.
 
Why? Why would 'His' opinions be any less valid than 'The Tech'? And, vice versa.
Ron *used* 'The Tech'; His 'opinions' are formulated by the *Source* of 'Tech'.
The Tech *is* Ron; He is Source. If His 'opinions' are fallible, so is 'The Tech'.
Zinj

The tech was developed using Auditors and Case supervisors which LRH coordinated, orchestrated, etc into a workable methodology. At some point, which is another discussion entirely, the The "Perfect source" and LRH is right serfac permeated the Church and the CoS became a very serious entity.

This is what LRH had to say about the tech,
"People look on this as being 'my science'. Yeah, I own all of your postulates. I bought them one day at a raffle. Like the devil I did! About the only thing, as I told you the other day, that I have done is organize and put together, and maybe I can look a little bit better than anybody else has been looking for a long time, and so I can see it. But if you can see it, well, so help me Pete, it's yours. Got that? From LRH tape lecture titled "Individuation".
 
Sorry, LoftyCrane.
All those "hats" you describe were all part of Hubbard's same plan - to produce a 100 million dollar estate for himself. And that's it.
You can separate out those things for yourself if you want.
But I've already learned my lesson on Scientology.

I'm not trying to proselytise you into anything, so you don't have to be sorry. And if you believe that all that LRH wanted out of Scientology was money - so be it. I have long ago learnt never to come between someone and their beliefs. :)

Could you be a bit more specific as to what the lesson was you learnt. Did you have any auditing or study Scientology? Or were you just conned?

Martin
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Do you think you can find God where Jesus failed?

Jesus said that the Second Coming was going to happen in some of the lifetimes of his followers. He told Caiphas that he would witness the Second Coming. It didn't happen, did it? Do you think you can find God where Jesus failed? If so then tell us about your better qualities that make you more eligible.

It was a Markabian conspiracy that withheld the fact that Jesus returned.

Also I did not know that God was lost.
 
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tarbaby

Patron with Honors
That it was written down maybe thousands of years ago makes no difference. People knew less then than they do now. What they wrote ain't worth reading.

Some of those stories are explicit parables that teach universal truths about how to live our lives, and what God expects of us.

Dennis
 

tarbaby

Patron with Honors
bait-and-switch "religion"

Because, for me, Scientology was a route to God. At least that is what I asked for, and was told it would be. Imagine my shock, 13 years later on the BC, to hear Hubbard tell me in a tape that there was no God.

It's called bait-and-switch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_and_switch

It was only when I recognized that I had been tricked, and derailed from my purpose to seek God, that I fully left Scientology. And every continued experience of seeking God for me has illuminated one more aspect of Hubbard's con, and helped me to recover from having trusted, and been derailed from seeking God.

So no - seeking God is not an impediment to recovery from Scientology. For me, it fuels my recovery. And I've seen it fuel many others', as well.

Alanzo, you are telling Roland what I would have told him ... if I thought he could hear it. Thanks.

Dennis
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
I had asked you whether it was stupid or delusional to seek experiences which brought so much joy into your life, as seeking God does to so many people.

Was this your answer?

I can't tell.


I recommend you become a born-again Christian. I have never seen people look so happy. Every day is a day of wonderment to them. I saw a bunch of them pray and sing a hymn in harmony at the top of the Zugspitz on the German side. This was after they rushed out of the mountain-top bar I was in because of a carved crucifix in the corner of the room. So, so happy!

And yet I know Christianity itself is a load of crap.
 
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