After 20 years of hiatus my father rejoined the cult, i need to convince him to quit for good

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by NamiJ, Jun 12, 2018.

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  1. NamiJ

    NamiJ New Member

    Hi, new user here.

    Been into Scientology for several years in the 90s as public and staff, i was dragged into the cult by my father in 1993, my whole family was part of scientology for 6 years, in 1999 we left for good leaving in the cult a considerable amount of money.

    For 18 years we had sporadic talks about scientology, about the time passed there and my father had very sporadic contacts with some cult members. i thought that after almost 20 years scientology was a closed chapter of our life.. until some months ago.

    My father (wich he is 61) discovered two years ago facebook. due to the hateful facebook algorithm, facebook added to his friendlist all his cellphone contacts, included scientology members as well wich he had in his phone. this event triggered some form of nostalgia in my father (seeing timelines of his scientologist ex-friends), eventually he had talks with some of them too.. then, on septebmer of the latest year he retired from his job because of his age. He was a hard working man, he practically dedicated most of his life to his job. being suddenly without a job, he had to compensate the void left by his job, and somehow he thought about going back into the church...

    When he told me about his choice i was quite shocked... but most of all, i told him that he had to let it go, that our scientology experience was a mistake, we lost a lot of money and time, he had to acknowledge it and move forward... having so much time now, he could travel the world, make new friends... no, nostalgia prevailed and now he is at it, again, stubborn and incredibly stupid.

    The other day i saw on his desk a letter that he wrote to his CS, he just finished the student hat so he wrote a letter full of excitement for how he felt alive and so convinced that scientology was the right road for him, and by reading that letter i just felt powerless.

    He will soon start OT levels i guess, and this will be expensive as fuck, so i am quite worried about the situation, but most of all, i am worried this time he will be convinced to divorce from my mother because she doesn't want to go back.

    What i really like to obtain by writing this post, is to have some sort of inspiratio by reading your replies, i'd like to know what i should do in order to push him out for good, i know he is so stubborn that he won't listen, i just thought that i could send him anonimously some emails on his inbox or buy him a book, or... i really don't know.
     
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  2. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

  3. wogwog

    wogwog Patron

    As recommended above, pick up Combating Cult Mind Control, and also get Freedom of Mind by the same author. FoM contains much of the same information about how cults work from CCMC but in a condensed form, and also lays out how to develop a strategy for talking a cult members into freeing themselves. Both books will help you come up with a plan and understand where the weak points are in a cult belief system.

    Your dad sounds like he is attracted to being surrounded by seemingly up tone, up stat, pro survival OTs with a shared purpose of saving the planet and improving themselves. That pull can very hard to resist, especially if he's he some "wins" from Scientology and still has a soft spot for his time on staff and the camaraderie he felt with his teammates, even if he likely was underpaid, overworked, and abused.

    The nature of how people come to believe in cults also makes them balk at being confronted head on. No one believes they are stupid or foolish enough to join a cult. They are right -- being smart or stupid is not what makes a difference. No one goes out thinking "I want to give over my money and my mind to an authoritarian group that wants to control my thoughts, what I can see and do, and who I can speak to." But cults get you through other means, not by attacking your intelligence, but by abusing how we respond to social pressures and other quirks of human psychology. People don't think hypnosis or mind control could work on them, but they don't really know what those really look like. How would they even know what being mind controlled felt like, especially if it was being done secretly or being called something else like "doing TRs?"

    Being too aggressive will likely backfire because people double down on their beliefs when challenged. That's so frustrating because you feel the urgency of preventing this disaster and just want to grab and shake him and yell "This is all bullshit! Can't you see how crazy this is!?" Sadly that won't work as much as I wish it did...

    You may try saying you don't want to stop him from doing what he thinks is best, but you just want to make sure he has all the information. Scientology teaches that you should "seek to live with the truth" and it is supposed to make you able to confront whatever you fear and collect data to make objective decisions. It doesn't really do that, but it says it does, and that can get you in the door.

    If he's almost at the OT levels, his indoctrination is very high so convincing him it is OK to look at critical material will be very difficult since doing so would ruin his "OT eligibility" and costs him a lot of time and money in ethics handlings and sec checks. Scientology rigs itself so its followers are scared of "entheta" AKA negative information like the true history of LRH or the stories of ex-Scientologists. You are taught the only reason you leave or even have critical thoughts is because you are guilty of crimes, and only insane criminals oppose Scientology. You have to police your own thoughts and automatically assume all critics are by definition evil criminals. This is what kept me in for so long even once I started doubting. The Steve Hassan books we recommended will explain how this is phobia induction (implanted irrational fears about leaving), and it is a hallmark of how cults prevent people from escaping.

    Sit down and write out what you know about your dad. What was his life like before he got involved in the cult? What was it that attracted him to it? What got him out the first time? FOM will give you more guidance on what to write down and how to recruit your family and friends to help get your dad out. Here is more info on the approach: https://freedomofmind.com/strategic-interactive-approach/

    Here are some approaches you might take if you think you have enough trust to talk critically about Scientology with your dad:

    Would he be willing to watch Going Clear or Leah Remini's show with you?

    Would he read a book like A Piece of Blue Sky that gives an honest but not favorable true history of LRH and Scientology?

    What about short YouTube clips about certain troubling aspects of Scientology? (I can help you find these if there are certain topics you know your dad would be interested in.)

    Is he interested in the stories of people who really knew LRH? Many of them are on the record telling stories about him and the history of Scientology.

    Would he be willing to read books on critical thinking or science that do not directly attack Scientology but may mention it in passing?

    Would he learn about other high control groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, Jim Jones, the Moonies, etc.?

    Would he be willing to read Debbie Cook's email, and would that mean anything to him? (If you don't know who that is, she ran Flag, the biggest Scientology org, for decades, but left and sent out an email that gave specific examples of how the current church leadership were violating LRH policy.)

    If he was willing to do any of these, would he also be willing to talk them over with you? Would you worry his cult identity would kick in and stop him from being able to honestly taking in this information and discussing it openly? Is he in deep enough again that he would feel the need to report that you are being "suppressive" by sharing critical information, and if they pressured him to disconnect from you and his wife, would he do it?

    Be careful about going in too harder and too fast because that will trigger all the mental booby traps Scientology puts in place to trap people. Again, the recommended books will explain this better than I can.

    The whole situation sucks but I hope you find a way to navigate it successfully! Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  4. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Tell your dad you are posting on this website and you are against scientology. Then make sure he knows that if he tells the org what you are doing they will declare you and force him to disconnect from you. Once he knows the full extent of his actions he should be better prepared to decide how to continue.
     
  5. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Have your father word clear the term “due diligence.”
    Do two-way comm with him the question What catastrophic consequences can occur when someone fails to conduct due diligence.”
    Have him give you several examples.
    Ask him what he could’ve done to conduct due diligence with regard to Scientology.

    Make sure his wi-fi is working.
    Then have him Google: Scientology fraud
    Scientology abuse
    Scientology crimes
    Scientology disconnection
    Scientology deaths
    Ask him to watch the last 2 Seasons of the Emmy award winning Docu-series, Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath.

    Discuss it with him. If he’s still intent on returning, he will at least have conducted due diligence, but I highly doubt he’ll return.

    The key question to ask him is “If only 1% of what you’ve read and heard is true, why would anyone want to be part of such a group?

    Good luck.
     
  6. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Hi NamiJ

    The advice dchoice and wogwog gave to read Steve Hassan's books (both of them) is what I would have suggested. And read them prior to any attempted handling on your father. What wogwog said here is true:
    Being too aggressive can also backfire because once CoS realizes there's a conflict between your father and his family and/or friends, they'll put him onto a PTS/SP course which will make things more difficult. It's designed to handle members whose family and/or friends are attempting to alert him to the danger of the CoS, usually requiring the member to "handle or disconnect". (that's from the "10 August" policy reference)

    You can also contact Steve Hassan directly as he's often helped people with these types of interventions.
    https://freedomofmind.com/
     
  7. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Tell your father that tech is out in orgs, and that Standard Tech is available at a fraction of the cost outside of the organization.

    Explain to him that the organization no longer delivers the original upper OT levels (original OT 4, 5, 6, and 7), that its OT 8 was created by person named Ray Mithoff, and that the tech has been altered in various ways by David Miscavige who is a provisional Class Four auditor.

    Show him this Friends of LRH site:

    http://friendsoflrh.org/

    Let him know that there are more experienced and highly trained auditors outside of the organization - which has gone squirrel - than there are in the organization.

    Have your dad watch this Trey Lotz video:



    The idea is not to convince your father that Scientology is bad, only to coax him into pursuing Scientology outside the organization.

    Once he's free of the organization, he'll discover more things on his own.

    Best wishes.
     
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  8. wogwog

    wogwog Patron

    Veda's advice is very good. Giving up an entire belief system and abandoning the (supposed) workability of the technology can be too much to do, especially after investing so much time and money and your hopes and dreams into it. There is a big community of Indie/Freezone Scientologists and they are highly trained. They speak the language and they can quote the references. I don't buy into any of this stuff any more, but if someone insists on getting auditing, there is no need to go pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to be abused by the "official" church to do it.
     
  9. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh that is great Veda.... Japanese ...are there some in Mandarin for the Taiwanese?
     
  10. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    There is a very extensive reading list for anyone wanting to know the truth about Scientology. If you want it just ask but I like the focused suggestions on this thread to start with sophisticated analysis of cult behavior in general first.

    People don't go off-lines for 20 years without good reason. As the Old Man would say, rehab those failed purposes for why he left: crush regging, heavy ethics and intrusive sec-checks, annoying phone calls and getting ambushed at the house, neurotic mandatory events, expensive retreads and corrective actions, asset stripping including going into debt and getting kids into the SO or on staff, endless demands for volunteering, pressure to buy The Basics and other bookstore items, not ratting out your friends and family who have drifted away or gone squirrel, on and on.

    It's been suggested that you throw down the gauntlet and call him on the Disconnection thing. Ordinarily I would probably recommend against this but that would be where the individual has never had a break in cognitive dissonance. The Church is already doing a pretty good job of self destructing and it might be better to lay low and let them see it play out for themselves. This way the conflict doesn't become "about you". But from what you are saying he has already pulled away out of some awareness that there is something very wrong and disconnection is always the big elephant in the room. You aren't even supposed to discuss it among yourselves. The prospects are too horrible. But given the family dynamic, if it is an eventuality, then it probably is a good idea to take it head on now before they get the thumbscrews to him.

    He believes in the Conditions Formulas, right? I don't but pointing out that he is in a condition of doubt with you over disconnection might get him to consciously weigh the severity of the consequences. Not disconnecting means he can't do the OT Levels. I also think the Scientology concept of Integrity as "Knowing what you know is knowing what you know" is reverse bullshittery to get people fanatical about Scientology and to not know what they know about everything else. Why else would the net result be a total shut down of communication and logical analysis? If Scientologists have personal integrity they shouldn't be censored or self censoring but they rationalize this as being exposed to some magical quantity called "Entheta" which in the real world will actually be very expensive and burdensome for anyone trying to go up the Bridge. Out here in the wog world we call that extortion, just like disconnection is extortion. That is fear and intimidation in wogspeak. Every Scientologist deep down knows this. It's a religion of fear.
     
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  11. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Scientology - A Living Quicksand of Souls

    Have you noticed that some people try to recreate the circumstances of their youth when the get old & over the hill, thinking on some deep level that "gee, if I just do all the things now that I did then, I will recapture the essence of who I was then when things were so much better".
    What they have yet to realize is that it doesn't work.
    Who you were in your youth cannot be recaptured by recreating the circumstances of day's long since gone by and you only look foolish trying.
    Like the cheesy toupee blowing up with the wind as you whiz along in your shiny new convertible, giving the gals cat calls & thinking they're laughing with you when it's at you.
    Scientology is always ready to capitalize on such foolishness which is why you suddenly hear from them again after 30 years of your having been dead filed.
    Plus they figure you probably have a few bucks salted away by then and won't be shy about trying to beat your heirs to it!
     
  12. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Glad to see someone bring up this point. You just know this is exactly how they think. 20 years off lines is a long time to build up untapped reserves just waiting to open up to the reg after an ARC Break session and a little ethics handling.
     
  13. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    And it will most likely go to the ideal org buildings or the IAS, not his OT levels.
     
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  14. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Right. In order to qualify for the OT Levels they will demand that he donate money to the IAS to increase his "Status".

    This interview with Maria Pia Gardini is a case study in the Church's targeting and asset stripping a family for estate money.

     
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  15. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    He'll probably get a full battery of Sec Checks as well. :eek:
     
  16. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Scientology - A Living Quicksand of Souls

    And they are so unrepentant and shameless about it as they undoubtedly found something in policy that gave them license to go after your pension funds and or anything else you managed to accrue during your lengthy hiatus.
    Such shameless whores, they should have a pole for each reg to grind up and down on while they attempt to titillate you out of your
    wallet.
    Wouldn't it be fun to just walk in off the street pretending to be a raw meat public and half way through the intro reg cycle begin holding rolled up dollar bills over your crotch and let them earn every red headed cent just to test how truly dedicated they really are?
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  17. TomKat

    TomKat Patron with Honors

    From the book of case remedies:

    "What problem is going back to Scientology a solution to?"

    repetitive to EP (free of desire to go back)
     
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  18. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    I would ask him why he got involved in Scientology in the first place many years ago and get every single reason he had for joining up back then.

    Then I would ask him why he left in 1999 and get every consideration he had back then for leaving.

    Then I would ask him why he has decided to go back to it again after having had good reasons for leaving it in the first place.

    I don't see how he could have been out for all that time without seeing programs on TV about the negative side of Scientology or seeing things on the internet about all the BS in the COS. Somehow this doesn't make sense to me.
     
  19. Lavalyte

    Lavalyte Patron with Honors

    This is going to sound cold, but if your mother divorces, she should do it soon before the CoS sucks all the money away.
     
  20. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Mom would be an important partner in the task of dissuading dad. It would be best to really get her on board first, and get her to really understand what dad returning to Scn will do to their mutual finances, and what will happen to their marriage if he's on lines and she refuses to join in too.

    The prospect of the org being named as a co-defendant in a lawsuit over Dissipation of Marital Assets, may cool their enthusiasm for getting his dad on-lines.
     
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