After Scientology - Getting Over the Shame and the Guilt

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Gottabrain, Aug 28, 2012.

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  1. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest


    This is awesome Sautez. Thanks for finding it and reposting it, and thank you too, Alanzo! :heartflower:
  2. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest

    Mind blowing stuff, Caroline.

    Hubbard KNEW that shame and guilt were key to displacing a person's group and getting others to redefine who THEY were and who THEIR group was -essential in obtaining their willingness to displace themselves and even split their personality into "personas" to deal with different emotions or situations. Why feel sad about losing your family over scn? Grrrrr!!! :angry:

    Caroline, now that my leg has mostly healed (had a bad fall just over a week ago), real life beckons me - my connections, my relationships, my responsibilities, my dreams. So I am taking a little break from ESMB while I catch up with all that.

    Thanks to you, Sallydannce and all the others who have contributed on this thread, I've managed to resolve one more aftereffect of scn of which I wasn't previously been aware. A rather big one, too.

    I hope you and the others keep this thread up, it has been very, very healing.

  3. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    I'm glad for everyone's contributions here too, Gottabrain, and for the healing. See you again soon, I hope.

    Here's a reference to "unhealthy shame" that I found helpful, from Dr. Martha Stout's The Sociopath Next Door.

    I'm very grateful for the caring, human connection of the loving people in my life.
  4. Aloha to Gottabrain! Glad you are healing well, and enjoy your real life for awhile. We will be glad to see you whenever you can return to us, right guys? :happydance:

  5. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    An added footnote - mainly for newbie lurkers - to this excellent thread.

    A fundamental message is that, if one wants to leave, or disagrees with Scientology, then that is not because there is something wrong with Hubbard and Scientology, but because there is something wrong with YOU.

    From Hubbard's 1955 'Manual on Dissemination of Material':

    "...Another frame of mind that we would like to see the public have and register is that people attacking Scientologists have something wrong with them..."

    Also in 1955, Hubbard secretly authored this booklet: [​IMG]

    Some excepts:

    "We must have command of their values. The first loyalty [to himself] is destroyed by demonstrating errors in him...

    "Degradation and conquest are companions... degradation can be accomplished by consistent and continual defamation [of the person to the person]. Defamation is the best and foremost weapon of Psycho-politics on the broad field...

    "It will become well known that only the insane attack... [Scientology]

    "An immediate attack on the sanity of the attacker is the best defense...."

    Hubbard defined Psycho-politics as: "The art and science of asserting and maintaining dominion over the thoughts and loyalties of individuals, officers, bureaus... through 'mental healing'."

    That Hubbard KNEW what he was doing, and that it wasn't a mistake, or misapplication by others, can be difficult for some to accept.

    Below is a re-post that may be of use to those lurking, particularly those recently coming across the information and ideas in this thread, and rejecting it as impossible: "Ron would never do that to me."

    Usually, Scientologists can grasp the notion that "Black Scientology" or "Reverse Scientology" might be used on "Suppressive Persons," but not the idea that Scientology's founder used "Black Scientology" or "Reverse Scientology" on his own loyal followers. This is difficult to explain to Scientologists, since Scientology (Hubbard's teachings and "applied philosophy") is regarded as a "gift" from Hubbard for their benefit. Yet Scientology, as crafted by Hubbard, is a devious mix of "Black" and "White" Scientology, and this mixture is what makes Scientology such a sticky trap.

    This has also been described as the solvent/adhesive nature of Scientology, with the solvent being an essential ingredient to the "glue" of Scientology.

    It should be noted that, under the leadership of David Miscavige, the solvent/adhesive ratio is out of whack, and has become "non-optimum" for maximum adhesion. Not enough solvent in the mix to make an effective and sticky glue. IMO, this is good news, yet there are those who passionately seek to return the solvent/adhesive ratio to what it was "under LRH," when Scientology was expanding and "booming." :eyeroll:

    Currently, about as far as "Independent" and FreeZone" Scientologists can venture is to assert that corporate Scientology's current leader, David Miscavige, uses "Black Scientology." Beyond that, things become foggy for them.

    In his confidential writings, Hubbard taught that Scientology's enemies should be subjected to "enemy tactics," and to the various "aberrative" mechanisms of the mind, and Hubbard, in non-confidential writings and lectures, would sometimes describe these and, on a few occasions (usually at lectures), even warn the Scientologists that some evil force (not him of course, but the communists, Nazis, psychiatrists, the "12 bankers," etc.) could someday use Scientology to enslave - such is "the power the tech," etc. FZ and Indy Scientologists are fond of quoting these warnings. This, while remaining subject to many of the manipulative ideas and methods woven into Scientology by its founder.

    L. Ron Hubbard described himself as "Mankind's Greatest Friend," etc., so his writings and comments about "aberrative mechanisms" and "enemy tactics" never came across as a warning about himself. If anything, it made others more inclined to trust him.

    For example, in Dianetics, what's "aberrative"? Something that equates to "survival." The "held down 7s" are "aberrative" because they're identified with the person's survival. "Survival," as a "mechanism" becomes "aberrative."

    Even in 1950, Dianetics was presented as being a "race with the atomic bomb." The message was plain enough: Dianetics = Survival. No Dianetics = Doom.

    And this continued into Scientology. One of many examples: In 1956, Hubbard wrote, "With Man now equipped with weapons sufficient to destroy all Mankind and Earth... The primary race on Earth is... the one being run between Scientology and the atomic bomb."

    How many Scientologists read Hubbard's descriptions of Dianetics and Scientology as essential for Mankind's "Survival!" - and their own "Survival" - and thought, "Oh, Ron's using the 'Survival mechanism' to manipulate me" ?

    Another example from 1950 Dianetics is the "ally computation." Someone comes out of the blue and helps another person, helps the other person in some way or other. The "help" could be indifferently offered, or insincerely offered, but if the needy person regards it as aiding in his "Survival!" (or well being, or the alleviation of pain or the attainment of pleasure or relief), then (so the theory goes) the "ally" mechanism is in place and in effect. For example, an uncle, who may not be a particularly nice fellow, gets his little nephew a glass of water when that nephew is sick in bed and thirsty. The uncle (in the mind of the little nephew) becomes an "ally," and the uncle become identified with "Survival!"

    Now, who would have thought that "Mankind's Greatest Friend," on whom the "Survival!" of Mankind, and the "Survival!" of each person (Scientologists, through Ron's "Bridge") depended, would use the "ally computation" and the "Survival mechanism" in order to deceive, manipulate, and exploit? Nah, that could never happen.

    However, it did happen, and not only years later, but sometimes the same day, or previous to Hubbard mentioning a deceptive, manipulative or destructive mechanism or tactic.

    But it was disguised, and so wasn't recognized. Hubbard's warnings about the race between Dianetics or/and Scientology and the atomic bomb were regarded by Scientologists as warnings by their, and Mankind's, #1 "ally," L. Ron Hubbard. Who amongst Scientologists suspected? Yet, the warning noted above - from 1956 - was less than a year after Hubbard had published, and distributed, his fake "Russian Psychopolitics textbook" (which of course denounced Dianetics), a "textbook" that, amongst the haughty "Russian Commie"-sounding rhetoric, and references to psychiatrists practicing lurid sex with their (unconscious) patients, "Pain-Drug-Hypnosis," shock treatment, lobotomies, etc., was a compendium of enemy ("Russian Communist") ideas and practices for "asserting and maintaining dominion over thoughts and loyalties."

    From Hubbard's "Russian Textbook":

    "The failure of Psychopolitics might well bring about the atomic bombing of the Motherland. The psychopolitical operative must succeed for his success means world peace... The end thoroughly justifies the means."

    Even "Survival!" - used to manipulate - was mentioned in the fake "Russian Textbook":

    "It is pointed out in many early Russian writings that this is a survival mechanism. It [the "Survival!" mechanism] has already been well and thoroughly used in the survival of Communism."

    Hubbard's 1955 "Russian Textbook" was loaded with manipulative and exploitative ideas and practices, many of which were being used on Scientologists themselves - used on them by their "Greatest Friend" and ally, L. Ron Hubbard - ideas and practices which were formally incorporated, by Hubbard, into Scientology doctrine and practice.

    Yet, who suspected? Yet, it was right there. And because it was right there it was unthinkable.
  6. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    Re: An added footnote - mainly for newbie lurkers - to this excellent thread.

    Veda, excellent observations.

    Just taking up one here, the ally computation, which Hubbard wrote about in DMSMH. Hubbard's basic tech on allies and related concepts show his efforts to achieve psychological control and allegiance, i.e., brainwashing, by breaking or altering our connections to our early authority figures.

    Hubbard was aware that our early authorities -- parents, grandparents, educators, religious leaders, etc. -- play an enormous role in our psychological development. According to Hubbard, our psychological attachment to these "allies" occurs below our conscious awareness, as engramic content. Dianetics processing specifically targets these authorities and corresponding "sympathy engrams" as the most aberrative.

    Of course this tech also radically changes our relationship as parents with our children. I learned in DMSMH and basic Scientology that I was the main restimulator on my daughter's case. As a consequence of my sincere but pathetically misguided efforts to apply Hubbard's principles, I acted in ways that minimized our attachment, and in so doing caused my beautiful little girl unimaginable heartbreak.

    Hubbard also knew that in order to gain control of us, he had to disrupt these relationships and release their hold on us so that authority would transfer to him and to Scientology.

    Probably most of us do have a mix of negative and positive attitudes toward our early "allies" or authorities. (I'm not a mental health professional.) Hubbard made it possible, even attractive, for us to accept his reasoning for our psychological and psychosomatic problems, in part because of the "hidden" nature of our reactive minds for which we have no access outside of his proprietary psychological methods. Not long after my first contact with Scientology, I was invested in the infallibility of the tech and Hubbard's promises, and had no defense against his "reasoning."

    Handling allies and their engramic content functions not only in auditing but in training and in application of the SP doctrine. It happened for me the first time I got a cold, within a few weeks or months of being introduced to Scientology.

    It is a crime in Scientology to withhold information about illness. (Ref. Introduction to Scientology Ethics.)

    Illness, according to Hubbard always indicates a PTS situation, requiring reporting and handling by a Scientologist trained in the SP doctrine. Being ill always carries with it the stigma of being PTS (Potential Trouble Source), trouble to oneself, to others, and to the organization. It is definitely a "down stat," and "pulls in" blame, labeling and censure. This stigma acts as an opportunity to strengthen the person's dependency on the organization and, of course, a way to control the person's past and current relationships.

    This standard PTS handling encourages Scientologists to project our trouble onto early authorities or allies; very often Scientologists name their parent(s). ("When was the first time you had such cold symptoms?" "Who was around at the time?")

    It's reasonable and expected that we experience some sort of instant "relief" from disconnecting from the identified SP. What person labeled a PTS wouldn't feel relief finding the cause of the unwanted condition? Scientology procedures make it extremely easy to project our shortcomings onto the people who love us most in the world.

    For new Scientologists, being ill and vulnerable provides an ideal opportunity for psychological rewiring so that we can accept a new authority, and, of course, the new authority is L. Ron Hubbard. Predictably, my ethics officer got me to remember who was around when I first recalled having cold symptoms: my mother.

    After coming to "realize" that my mother was the SP on my case, I equivocated. Regardless of the childhood circumstances that prompted this labeling, I couldn't live with the idea that she was the evil being I read about in the PTS/SP indoc. Days later, I was called back in to the Ethics Office and I voiced my concerns and feelings of guilt. Hubbard's answer? My behavior indicated I was either a) Type II PTS, meaning that my mother only restimulated the actual SP who was somewhere in a past life, or b) I was "False" PTS or c) "Pretended PTS", or d) I had somehow caused the antagonism between my mother and myself (Type A).

    Of course, I would have to have more ethics handling and auditing to sort all this out. Cha ching.

    All for getting a cold.

    Guilt management for one's PTSness typically includes interrogation in various forms, such as OW writeups, security checks and False Purpose Rundown. In my twenty-four years on the inside, I had it all.
  7. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Re: An added footnote - mainly for newbie lurkers - to this excellent thread.

    Thank you for this wonderful detailed and very important analysis.

    The hurdle to be overcome for some is the recognition that Hubbard used these things on them, and did so while they were loyal and trusting Scientologists, and that Hubbard incorporated this exploitative and harmful use into the doctrine of Scientology, where it continues.
  8. sallydannce

    sallydannce Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you Caroline and Veda. You have given me (& others) great gifts with your sharing here.

    I am experiencing huge shifts of perspective. I need to sit quietly to integrate and reconcile all that has passed the past week or so since this subject of shame came onto the radar.

  9. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    I usually do this with Pan-Galactic Gargle Blasters, but you have to pre-mix all your intended drinks because after the first one you'll have no idea how to mix a second one.

    Of course, here on Earth, one's toxic alcohol intake is maxed out by Hell's Surrender.
  10. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I understand people's frustration with having been brainwashed. I would like to avoid it as well, but I don't regret it, really. I learned an incredible amount from breaking out of the brainwash, and have found it very applicable to breaking out of the concensus trance on many fronts.

    I am not trying to apologize or justify Scientology's efforts to enforce a new type of trance on its subjects, or Hubbard's goals for establishing the same. I think everyone is brainwashed and ignorant coming out of childhood, and most of us swap one brainwash for another throughout our lives, with very little peeking out and seeing what is actually there, figuring out what we actually want, and so we go through our lives unfulfilled, lonely, alienated and vulnerable. Learning to live without systems that filter our experience, learning to figure things out for ourselves rather than relying on authorities, etc. IS the "it" people unconsciously seek. Children rebel against parent. Citizens rebel against governments. Lovers rebel against expectations and bad fits. Most of it is unconscious, though, with little learning and constant reinforcement of patterns and barriers to growth.

    Learning how to see through the brainwash, how to control our own trance state (we're almost always in a trance, even if it is a positive one, screening out some factors, emphasizing others) is a critical skill. It was one I was trying to find through Scientology (and I think I did find a lot of it there, and became a lot stronger, in spite of the efforts of some and the goals of the organization). Shame and guilt are prisons that prevent learning and change, and fleeing all analysis or introverted examination of their sources because you no longer agree with auditing might be natural, but it doesn't help you grow or avert future similar disasters.

    My suggestion for auditors who feel like they failed because they were duped into serving an evil organization, or because they discovered some or many aspects of what they did only reinforced or manipulated others' trances, is to become the thing Hubbard so desperately wanted to prevent you from being: psychologists, shaman (shamu?), philosophers. There is an incredible wealth of information that Hubbard altered or jumped off from in those subjects. Check out, particularly, the emotional competence website in my sig. Huge amounts of valuable info and links. I'm a metapsychologist and philosopher, and I find my goals as an "auditor" are met, now, whenever I take someone in session. It's intensely rewarding, and my "stat" is people who no longer need me and who have moved on. I have to do other work to pay the bills, because it's hard to sell authentic change: much easier to sell false idols like theta powers (siddhis) (which may exist, but which Scientology certainly doesn't provide or unleash).

    At any rate, your mileage may vary, but don't give up on helping, loving and caring for other people, our civilization or any other objectives just because Scientology is a cult and you feel betrayed, stupid or whatever as a result of being involved. That's like giving up building your house because you banged your thumb with a hammer (repeatedly).
  11. Great message, Love you, NeeKee! :happydance:
  12. onthepes

    onthepes Patron with Honors

    Hey Mate. Just catching up. I wondered how you were doing on the job front. Frankly, it is early days, but I am loving not being a part of the whole middle class trip. I am going to the gym twice a day and spending some time in the sun. I do not give my old job a second thought. I hope life is great for you. I hope it is great for everyone here after Scientology.
  13. Ogsonofgroo

    Ogsonofgroo Crusader

    Awesome first post AussieCase, and :welcome:, nice to have ya aboard matey!

    Do take a moment and introduce yourself in the 'New Members Intro.' thread too!


    (Oooo-oooo, and stories? We lervs stories! :drama:)

  14. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    A thought-provoking post, uniquemand.

    I don't think of shame and guilt as "prisons," but as important moral emotions, that can lead to personal and societal benefits. Shame and guilt help to restrain our shameful actions, and protect our brothers and sisters until we can come to an understanding of our shameful actions and make the necessary corrections.

    A lack of remorse and shame is an important factor in the psychopathic personality. See Hervey Cleckley's
    Mask of Sanity. Although psychopaths can be restrained by their knowledge of the unpleasantness of getting caught, they lack the remorse and shame that restrains the rest of the world.

    Recent science on the subject of evil shows how good people can be induced by situations to do "evil" or shameful things. From the author of The Lucifer Effect: understanding How Good People Turn Evil:

    Zimbardo writes more about the situational, dispositional and systemic causes of "evil" in The Lucifer Effect, his report on the Stanford Prison Experiment.

    I think that learning the mechanics of the Scientology brainwash is a vital aspect of recovery that gets to the bottom of our shame, guilt, etc., and permits opportunities for real growth.
  15. RandomCat

    RandomCat Patron with Honors

    I believe that under the right set of circumstances, nearly anyone can be taken in by a destructive cult like Scientology. These types of groups are experts in manipulating the weaknesses in our human nature.

    (emphasis mine)

    If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that this form of 'blind faith' is some sort of virtue... if that's what you're saying I strongly disagree.

    A willingness to face doubts that seem to have a firm basis in reality.... now that's a virtue! :wink2:
  16. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    Authors June Price Tangey and Jeff Stuewig discuss shame vs. guilt in Chapter 13 of The Social Psychology of Good and Evil:

  17. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    Authors June Price Tangey and Jeff Stuewig suggest a focus for healing, based on their findings on shame vs. guilt:

  18. sallydannce

    sallydannce Gold Meritorious Patron

    Caroline? Just got in the door and scanned your last two posts.

    Wow! Excellent stuff!

    The ride out of shame is magnificent! :)

    Thank you Caroline. You rock! :yes: :flowers:
  19. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    It is gems like this, that make me feel pain, for Alanzo slashing his own ESMB throat.

  20. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Ruthless Sec-Checker

    The guilt and shame are no longer issues for me as I've been out for quite a while. The hardest aspect for me to get over is the the body thetan horseshit that had me believing that all my friends, family and self were composite beings who existed as hopelessly entangled masses of decayed thetans, even clusters within clusters of them. That belief eroded my concept of the world around me and left me highly attuned to the dangerousness of this universe. After all, if these thetans could become BT's, why couldn't I, my mother, my cousins etc. also end up in such a goop for some 75 million years? What a demented state of mind this "tech" leads one into... Even if the initial buy in point was something as "harmless" as TR's, study tech, the data series etc. These buy in's just lead one further into the bewildering psychosis of the "upper levels" and the hellishly demented point of view that it all leads to. The bottom line is the universe was no longer a safe space for me or anyone else for that matter until I got that stuff out of my head. Not sure I totally have as yet...:no: