Another way to view Scientology

Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by SHUKex, Jun 12, 2018.

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  1. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well there's the rub, isn't it? So much of what we experience in Scientology is subjective. We've discussed the Ganzfeld Effect that Scientologists want to believe is partial exteriorization but non-Scientologists explain it as a state of dissociation caused by the brain trying to compensate for monotonous stimuli. Why is it not ever really full perceptic exteriorization? Because if it were you could prove it. You would be able to read a deck of cards in the next room. And exterirization is so problematic in Scientology. If you go exterior before you are properly prepared by Scientology then you may have to pay a lot of money to do the Int Rundown. There are lots of excuses why we don't get it right and can't prove it. Why don't we want to hold up our beliefs in these kinds of things to strong logical standards? Yet we talk about them as though they are fact and others should accept them as fact.

    Fantasy and imagination can be good and powerful things. It's probably the single most important thing that sets mankind apart from all other creatures. And not only are we imaginative but because we have opposing thumbs or because we evolved opposing thumbs because we are imaginative - we are also very creative.

    But logic based on fantasy is also highly subject to interpretation and more easily manipulated. Once you adopt the concept of spirituality then that establishes the principle that there is this whole other reality out there with it's own complicated system of taxonomy, each with their own evolution, history, culture and politics. Now parents and children are not related because thetans don't have parents or children. What you do in this life isn't so important because there will always be another life to make up the bucket list. LRH gets to be an explorer, rich with experience, an expert in many diverse fields, accomplished in life but you agree to do bulk mailing and call-in for a billion years to make his goals a reality all the time he is telling you how great your potential as an immortal spirit is.

    The idea that Scientology is 3D or inter-dimensional is consistent with the Targ/Body Thetan mythology. Our universe is being invaded and plotted against by other dimensional beings. It's not enough that we should sacrifice everything to save this planet against nuclear war, we have to fight off the Targ invasion which will cost a lot of money and require many over-nighters.

    I love all this stuff, I really do but unless you are a fantasy writer there is a big different between structuring your logic around it and things that hold up to critical analysis. I've never known a Scientologist to prove without a doubt remote viewing or to recall where they buried their treasure in a past life. We invest so much in these things that it never occurs to us to test our own convictions. Try accepting that none of it is real just as an exercise. Scientologists are Scientologists exactly because they have already accepted the 3D concept. Being able to adopt a completely opposite logic introduces a healthy counter balance to a viewpoint of Scientology and it's many methods of manipulation.
  2. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    Re exteriorization. I have and do experience that with full perception. But it’s not a permanent state, and I have no need for it to be. It is a choice. I find it easier to remain grounded when more fully present in. One can be aligned to other dimensions without being exterior to the 3D body. But surely the point is that with all things we individually work to understanding or achieving, where would a need to prove it come in? Ego perhaps? Making oneself right? I guess there are some roles or positions that would benefit by trying to fulfil other people’s need for proof. As you say it is all subjective, so the best (and ultimately the only) route if someone is interested in that area, is them taking the steps necessary to experience it. Then it goes beyond believing or not.

    Conceiving of being of being of a spiritual essence in our true state, doesn’t negate the reality of our current 3D family - which I feel is a great gift of learning for all. Regardless of whether we see ourselves as adopting different identities in different incarnations, doesn’t make any moment of life less important. Every moment counts.

    The idea of being invaded and plotted against, I feel, is more about choosing a 3D/4D/Astral Plane reality. While being generally aware of the game playing that takes place on Earth, one does not have to align with it. There are amazing other harmonious and exquisite realities in existence within the creation of this physical universe. We have a choice as to which density and vibrational frequency and attached reality we align with. It truly is a choice.
  3. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

  4. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    Hmm, good question. I don’t think of that as I used to, which was being on a path making gains on a quest to become more able. Although in a way, it can be seen as that. I understand it now more as it being all inherently within us already and all we need to do is let go of anything that is not truly us. E.g - we adopt so very many beliefs – about everything - which remain with us unless we release them (or we vibrate beyond that vibrational band of reality) no matter when we created/agreed to them. The more we let go and become who we are, the higher the picture of truth we can access.

    Five things.....

    I guess it’s more about reaching a space where we reside beyond the story.

    Where we see the perfection of the universe, its exquisite mathematics and the learning it plays in the evolution of the soul and the ever-expanding universe.

    Where we can operate as much as possible in our intuitive Knowing without blowing ourselves out of the game/universe. So, hang onto some ‘Not Know’ in there!!

    When we allow that inherent quality of spiritual compassion (beyond emotional) and truly feel a deep love and gratitude for all life.

    Where we’ve moved from ‘being responsible.’ We resumed a state where we ‘are’ responsible – which reaches our awareness as a natural state, sitting comfortably within the Self. Moving beyond the lower aspect of ‘responsible,’ often viewed as a weight we carry, taking the joy away in our judgement and condemnation of this cross to bear.

    We are creators and life is fun.
  5. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    You have quite some time line there. I guess people are leaving leave anything all the time and there will be pivotal points when the group consciousness creates a bit more of a push and perhaps more than usual depart
  6. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    You like to make things complex. I prefer to make things simple. No mythology, no religious dogma, no "other dimensions", no complex, mysterious explanations. I don't seem to need any of that to be quite happy.
  7. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    Sounds great. Of it, but not in it. Great place to be, eh!

    Yes truth is simple. But as we know, while we are here, using our beautiful language, can help so much explain a viewpoint and thus perhaps help each other to more understanding. I'm so grateful to have been helped in such a way, over many 'lifetimes', by those who graciously gave their time to help me understand just a little more. Helping another piece of the jigsaw to fall into place.
  8. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Groups consciousness is sometimes a factor, as it creates groups, clubs, gatherings.

    However, those pulled along by group consciousness are at a natural disadvantage, and those operating as individuals are at a natural advantage.

    I first departed as an individual - not as a cell in the group consciousness body.

    Although I had not formally resigned from the organization at that time, by 1976 I had done my last service in the organization.

    By 1978, I had compiled a near complete collection of (Scientology antecedent) Aleister Crowley's works.

    I also had read Hubbard's 1977 crazy LSD writings, and could no longer deny the hypnotic influence of Hubbard over his followers as I watched the Dianetic "Clear" frenzy of 1978.

    (I'm ashamed to admit it, but as a "public person," in 1978, I was only dimly aware of the RPF, and of the just occurred FBI raids.)

    The Way to Happiness was the final straw, as I was not the least interested in being told how to be "moral" by anyone, even L. Ron Hubbard.

    Deep down I knew I had outgrown Scientology, although I didn't formally resign until early 1983.

    After resigning I became involved with a break away mission and did a lot of auditing.

    And it went on from there.
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  9. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    I think we each found our own reason to leave, the final straw, so to speak. And it may not even be important as to what that was.

    When you’re trying to reach the wider spectrum of people, as it seems LRH was - with the basic draw cards used to get people in off the street and also his telling us in lectures he’d had to keep dumbing down the tech to reach the lowest common denominator. But I never felt that was derogatory. I think he wanted to reach out to many. I felt the Way to Happiness was just a way to reach the consciousness of those who could be helped by that idea. I know Scientology was stated to make the ‘able more able’ which sounds elitist (and yes it was!) but I don’t recall that statement was also applied to Dianetics. I could be wrong there.
    Incidentally, that symbol – is that the I’ve heard called the Tree of Death?
  10. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'd be curious to have you expound on what you knew and thought about that as public at the time.
  11. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    It's true, he definitely did want to reach out to many ... the many that had money or the ability to get some even if it meant going into serious debt, and those that were willing to work for him ... for nothing.

    Reading the 'way to happiness' was one of those moments that had me wondering what was going on and 'what is scientology' was another ... it was all so utterly childish and amatuer and we were being told to sell these things to people as recruitment tools (lol, I don't think so).
  12. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    Ha, it's sure true - the push for money was full on. Of course, it made sense at the time - it was ultimately going to help hem and we also had to keep the org running. sides to everything. Yes I know!! I know! We see what we see. Just before 2pm at the end of the week the place went into nightmare mode scrambling for people to pay to help get the stats up. I was so glad I never had the post of getting the money. I couldn't have pushed it.
  13. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    It's not just money stats... it's any staff stats.

    For example, I remember getting a few staff temporarily onto course, for that week, because there were not enough public.
    (One of the staffers I got on-course told me "Sometimes I just feel like crying".)
    I did that so that I would not be assigned a lower ethics condition.

    Oh, the insanity of Scientology! (Or better stated... the insanity of Hubbard.)
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  14. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yep, another aspect of management by fear. Fear of being subjected to more subjugation. The installed phobias that Hubbard imprinted are so very numerous. Even the names of the conditions and then formulas were methods of hubbard's controlling our behaviour and thinking. They were used to degrade and shame us.. to belittle us and allowed only his ideas of how to regain our self esteem. Repetitively in many instances.
  15. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    Oh yes. I had forgotten that. I wiped it all that clean. Ah yes, the trauma of adding anything you could get your hands on by 2pm to raise the stats. Survival! Smart move getting staff on.Talk about making things go right - however it was achieved!
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  16. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    I do have a slightly different view of the reasoning behind the development of the Conditions.

    The main problem was that often we were not truly in the condition we'd been assigned (as far as I could see anyway). Most of the ethics officers hadn't a clue of what it was all about and the theory behind that policy. And power and ego tripping often played a part, as I recall. And the lack of training for that job was atrocious! A few policies. Overnight someone was an ethics officer. Heaven help us. No chance!

    Did anyone else see this? I observed while I was on staff, people I could see were genuinely in a condition (e.g. Doubt) but had not been assigned by Ethics. They began to display, in some form, the behaviour that would have been assigned if they had been given that ethics condition. So, I started to understand his idea that by forcing the point and getting someone to confront their condition, it could be fast tracked and handled. Anyway, I saw something in there that was right - if only that whole area had retained any semblance of sanity.
  17. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    One of my most enduring memories of being a staff member at London Org in the late sixties is of standing in line at the cashier's box in reception on a Thursday (or whenever the hell pay-day was) only to see the sad face of Alan Saint the cashier shaking his head and telling me that there was nothing for me (an auditor - one of the most valuable beings on the planet according to Hubbard) that week.

    How the fuck I survived like that month after month I have no idea.

    Meanwhile Hubbard was stashing away millions. It makes my blood boil even now.
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  18. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    That also happened regularly at SH. But the SO crew had it much tougher than other staff. Feeling sorry for a couple of SO people, I invited them home for a cooked meal. Honestly, they just stared at the food for ages. They said they were drinking it in, as to carry the memory to get them past the rice and beans . That was all they'd had for several months.
    I guess LRH did have money but we never heard he was spending lavishly on luxuries for himself? Would that be correct? We sort of heard he had a motor bike or something. If that is truly how it was, perhaps money was not a priority, do you think?
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  19. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    "I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is!" L. Ron Hubbard
  20. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    The Manor cost a few pounds ... you know, the one he and his family lived in tucked away in the magnificent (and expensive) grounds at SH.

    I seem to recall a classic black Jag too ...

    Just sayin'