Any Aussies know this woman?

[Jachs]

What's an EstO?

Yeah, but I bet their farmer treats his oxen heaps better.

It shows how Scientology reduces their people to objects, humanity is discouraged, if not banned outright.

Oh, I forgot to answer the question put by the OP. No, I do not know her. Apologies if I derailed the thread.

Selected is just cult speak for convinced, as is Product, it shows that the individual hasnt attaned enlightenment by their own efforts but is merely a success squeezed out of the cults production line Orifice.

EstO= Establishment Officer/Orificer, one who establishes starts, creates, puts in place, whilst following the Communistic dictators teachings for the CULTure of greed.

 

[Panda Termint]

My "Say something nice" post is sarcastic. Rose tinted spectacles are not my style.
I didn't think your post was attacking her. I assumed that you do not know her and so could not really attack her personally and that your target was really the cult-trap of scientology.
The way I see it, you said somethings that were criticised as "belittling" Ruth. Although I did not think the point was to belittle her so much as to belittle the cult of scientology; exception was taken to your post. But instead of just crtiicising that point, Ruths completion was congratulated.
I see no need for congratulations, or nice remarks on how well she has done to complete OT 7, whether she is belittled or not.

You obviously read something into my initial post which was not there. What I actually said was

It's kinda funny how we each see some things so differently.

With the benefit of knowing what it actually takes to do the Level, my instantaneous thought when I first saw this OP was "Wow! An 82 year old getting through Solo NOTs is a miracle! She's obviously quite an exceptional person."

I know Ruth Lennie and she is a wonderful human being.

The fact that she's also a scientologist does not change my opinion of her. I've known many wonderful people who are or were scientologists.

I didn't congratulate her as you seem to think, I pointed out how exceptional she must be to have completed such a soul-wracking obstacle course, those who've never walked that path have no idea about what it takes.

From what I've heard since the time of her Completion, she seems to have managed to retain her innate goodness. The fact that you or I think that her idea of what's good is bad/sad is neither here nor there.

As I said, "It's kinda funny how we each see some things so differently."

 

[LongTimeGone]

I was interested in this particular sentence in her Success Story.

"I felt I owed it to them to complete the level because of that comradeship."

LTG

 

[xseaorguk]

some of the nicest $cientologists I met when 'in' were the older generation, often in their late 60's, 70's and 80's.
They were mostly very kind, well mannered and just pretty nice people.

I remember being audited by a South African woman (about 72), an OT who was a public at Saint Hill, and she gave me all of my 'leaving confessionals' or Sec checks. At the time I didn't realise what they were doing with me, I just found the questions a bit weird.

She was a great person, I really liked her.
Altho very wrinkled, she was quite slim and athletic.
I remember her once running for a bus at Saint Hill and was astonished at how fast she ran.
At the time I put it all down to her being OT.

Thinking back I believe they abused her good will to their advantage, as I don't think she was payed for her work.

Then I know another 'OT', Erika Barram, who is now in her early 80's has also been in $cn for a long time.
All of her family are in and she would probably tell a similar story to the other elderly woman who completed OT7.
Erika has probably gotten thousands of people into $cn, as she was/is a very successful FSM.
I think her husband is SO, she definitely isn't, and one of her sons was SO, now living outside with a child in Clearwater etc.
She would also tell a similar success story of how proud she is to have gotten so many people into the cult.
By doing so, she gained financially from it and is looked upon as a hugely 'successful' $cientologst.

All I can think of is quote from the Bible:

"forgive them as they know not what they do"

I dream of sitting down and having a cup of tea with this kind of person.
Then reflect of their long life and try not to be too judgemental with what they tell me.

I agree with what the person said before about it not all being about 'me', and if they seem happy with their lives then I should be happy for them.
With emphasis on the 'should', cos I find that the hardest part.

 

[The_Fixer]

This made me realize the perils of being too positive.
This woman is like Mr mago petting a lion, but calling it
A kitty cat. Also hanging off the wing of an airplane in midair
Thinking he's at the beach on a windy day.
How is it possible for someone to be in that for 60 years
Without noticing she's in a CULT. Come on lady. Really.
60 years? Now she's getting her grand kids mixed up in this
Too! She wins the worlds record for being oblivious for the
Longest amount of time.

I like you Nicole. Apart from having the same name as my youngest daughter.

You have a distinct way of putting your thoughts out there which resonate with me. A wisdom I like to read and hear.

Thank you for your input.

 

[The_Fixer]

You obviously read something into my initial post which was not there. What I actually said was

I know Ruth Lennie and she is a wonderful human being.

The fact that she's also a scientologist does not change my opinion of her. I've known many wonderful people who are or were scientologists.

I didn't congratulate her as you seem to think, I pointed out how exceptional she must be to have completed such a soul-wracking obstacle course, those who've never walked that path have no idea about what it takes.

From what I've heard since the time of her Completion, she seems to have managed to retain her innate goodness. The fact that you or I think that her idea of what's good is bad/sad is neither here nor there.

As I said, "It's kinda funny how we each see some things so differently."

Panda, your post also initially included a comment I made. I now can see what you were saying and I quite agree with you. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Feral]

June Budgeon.

When I was on my last six month check early in 2007 an elderly friend of mine was at Flag trying to comp, she was a widow in her late '70s and she was down to her last few bucks. June was a Scott and a laugh a minute too.

Her husband, Ron, died of dementia a few years earlier while he was on the level of OT VII. That was a flap and a half, a Scientology OT, been "in" all his life and there he was assaulting the nurses at the old folks home because they were "doing things" to him. He was violent and unmanageable, in Scio lingo; type three.

So, here was June, and she wasn't nobody either, she'd worked on the ship and at Saint Hill with Elron. When you look up "certificate" in the tech dictionary it was her OT cert that the picture was of, in her maiden name though. I think that dictionary was printed in the '70s, so that's how long she'd been on the Route to Total Freedom (tm).

While I was on the six month check from hell replete with tailor made FPRD and was being molded into a Rex Fowler she was navigating the EP check. She was having plenty of ups and downs too, she had all she could afford paid for in advance and was staying off base on a shoe string, she had one int elig and three weeks accommodation paid for on the ship and the big prize; OTVIII! She was looking forward to that , as we all were, like it was a golden nirvana awaiting us at the end of the marathon that was Solo Nots OTVII.

I left Flag as she was finishing VII, we were all so happy for her, it looked like her dream was coming true, she was going to the ship to do VIII!

The last I heard she ran out of hours on the sec check/elig and had no means of getting more, she went home without starting VIII. She was always planning to use every dollar she had or could raise to get there and finish her days on the pension in a retirement village.

We were heart broken for her at the time, not going OTee and all, on reflection it was a small mercy.

 

[DartSmohen]

Hi Kevin,

Normally I would not be posting here again, but I saw your comments on June.

I remember her very well. She was up at the AO Edingurgh. At that time she was June Turner. June was a fun-loving lady who was always up for a good time. It is a pity she lingered so long in Scn.

Ron Budgeon was a great guy. He came over from Melbourne. He had a wholesale sweet business and was a senior mason there. His daughter, Marilyn
also came over and worked at a bank at Gatwick Airport. She was a lot of fun too!

I used to process him at St Hill and it was about that time that he and June became friends.

I feel sorry for June. She gave everything up to continue in Scn and, like so many others, was ultimately betrayed by the cult.

 

[degraded being]

You obviously read something into my initial post which was not there. What I actually said was

I know Ruth Lennie and she is a wonderful human being.

The fact that she's also a scientologist does not change my opinion of her. I've known many wonderful people who are or were scientologists.

I didn't congratulate her as you seem to think, I pointed out how exceptional she must be to have completed such a soul-wracking obstacle course, those who've never walked that path have no idea about what it takes.

From what I've heard since the time of her Completion, she seems to have managed to retain her innate goodness. The fact that you or I think that her idea of what's good is bad/ "esad is neither here nor there.

As I said, "It's kinda funny how we each see some things so differently."

So she's a wonderful human being and she's a wonderful person who is a scientologist and she is exceptional for completing a soul-wracking obstacle course (would soul-hacking go just as well in there?) and since her completion she has retained her innate goodness. And she did "successfully" complete that level too.

Well that's very very nice. Yes isn't it funny how we each (please include Immortal here), see some things so differently.

 

[Purple Rain]

I totally don't understand the big brouhaha over this woman. It's like ... a Scientologist exists!!!! Nooooooooo ....

She's getting her 15 mins of fame anyway.

 

[Panda Termint]

So she's a wonderful human being and she's a wonderful person who is a scientologist and she is exceptional for completing a soul-wracking obstacle course (would soul-hacking go just as well in there?) and since her completion she has retained her innate goodness. And she did "successfully" complete that level too.

Well that's very very nice. Yes isn't it funny how we each (please include Immortal here), see some things so differently.

Yes, it's very interesting, as I said.

We do, indeed, see things VERY differently. I think that's to be expected, don't you?

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Something to hold on to.

You obviously read something into my initial post which was not there. What I actually said was

I know Ruth Lennie and she is a wonderful human being.

The fact that she's also a scientologist does not change my opinion of her. I've known many wonderful people who are or were scientologists.

I didn't congratulate her as you seem to think, I pointed out how exceptional she must be to have completed such a soul-wracking obstacle course, those who've never walked that path have no idea about what it takes.

From what I've heard since the time of her Completion, she seems to have managed to retain her innate goodness. The fact that you or I think that her idea of what's good is bad/sad is neither here nor there.

As I said, "It's kinda funny how we each see some things so differently."

Ruth Lennie certainly deserves acknowledgement as much or more than folks who pursue the (IMO) useless and redundant activities of life such as climbing Everest, K2 etc. Such things are costly too in terms of money, time, loss of life and can result in serious injury!

Why do some pursue such things? :confused2:

Beats the shit outta me!

Perhaps just "for the experience".

Maybe just to "complete a cycle of action".

I like this:

"To regret one's own experiences is to arrest one's own development.

To deny one's own experiences is to put a lie into the lips of one's life.

It is no less than a denial of the soul."

Oscar Wilde

 

[anonomog]

Ruth Lennie certainly deserves acknowledgement as much or more than folks who pursue the (IMO) useless and redundant activities of life such as climbing Everest, K2 etc. Such things are costly too in terms of money, time, loss of life and can result in serious injury!

Why do some pursue such things? :confused2:

Beats the shit outta me!

Perhaps just "for the experience".

Maybe just to "complete a cycle of action".

I like this:

"To regret one's own experiences is to arrest one's own development.

To deny one's own experiences is to put a lie into the lips of one's life.

It is no less than a denial of the soul."

Oscar Wilde

Nice quote EP

From Panda and Immortal's account the achievement is akin to swimming through a school of Great Whites disguised as a bleeding seal. If the lady is happy with her achievement, good for her.

BUT
After 60 years of experience has she not noticed that the regging is a little over the top? That the promo and events don't match reality too well.

Not noticed that staff look a little tired and stressed? Not noticed that her own family members on staff may not be blossoming? Not heard or seen or deduced that being on staff might not be the kind of loving nurturing environment she would, (as a genuinely nice person -and from all accounts here, she is) like to have her children and grandchildren immersed in?

For me, a never in, this is a giant WTF.
After 60 years in, how can anyone not have suspicions that staff is not the best place for beloved children and grandchildren, even if you are convinced that Scientology works well?
:confused2:

“I’m enjoying now getting my grandchildren on The Bridge. In my family, we now have four generations of staff members, with my grand-daughter becoming an EstO in the Melbourne Ideal Org. This happened when I was on OT VII. I selected her three years ago to Melbourne Org, and she’s obviously a great product. And I will definitely be there when the Ideal Org opens.

MY BOLD

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Nice quote EP

From Panda and Immortal's account the achievement is akin to swimming through a school of Great Whites disguised as a bleeding seal. If the lady is happy with her achievement, good for her.

BUT
After 60 years of experience has she not noticed that the regging is a little over the top? That the promo and events don't match reality too well.

Not noticed that staff look a little tired and stressed? Not noticed that her own family members on staff may not be blossoming? Not heard or seen or deduced that being on staff might not be the kind of loving nurturing environment she would, (as a genuinely nice person -and from all accounts here, she is) like to have her children and grandchildren immersed in?

For me, a never in, this is a giant WTF.
After 60 years in, how can anyone not have suspicions that staff is not the best place for beloved children and grandchildren, even if you are convinced that Scientology works well?
:confused2:


MY BOLD

yep

 

[secretiveoldfag]

Nothing personal against this probably very nice old lady but what has she got of value out of her investment of time and money over 60 years?

So she put in a great effort, but she was conned from day one.

I feel sorry for her and her family and outraged that any so-called church could exploit them so mercilessly over such an incredible time.

This is not something to be proud of, on their part, whatever she personally believes she has achieved.

 

[Feral]

<SNIP>

BUT
After 60 years of experience has she not noticed that the regging is a little over the top? That the promo and events don't match reality too well.

Not noticed that staff look a little tired and stressed? Not noticed that her own family members on staff may not be blossoming? Not heard or seen or deduced that being on staff might not be the kind of loving nurturing environment she would, (as a genuinely nice person -and from all accounts here, she is) like to have her children and grandchildren immersed in?

For me, a never in, this is a giant WTF.
After 60 years in, how can anyone not have suspicions that staff is not the best place for beloved children and grandchildren, even if you are convinced that Scientology works well?
:confused2:

I don't really think *time* is the key to spotting the con. We all get that opportunity once we are "clear" and it bears no resemblance to the promise. Yet we go on.

Something has to disturb the apple cart, Jesse Prince called it a crisis of conscience. Someone else on this board felt it wasn't until the abuse was turned on the person and became intolerable that they leave, the cult says it's when we have accumulated enough harmful acts that we have to leave to protect them from our own evil.

Me? I just think it's when we have enough pressure one way or the other to pierce the thought stopping techniques used on us such as the last point of the previous paragraph ^^^.

 

[jenni with an eye]

When I was on my last six month check early in 2007 an elderly friend of mine was at Flag trying to comp, she was a widow in her late '70s and she was down to her last few bucks. June was a Scott and a laugh a minute too.

Her husband, Ron, died of dementia a few years earlier while he was on the level of OT VII. That was a flap and a half, a Scientology OT, been "in" all his life and there he was assaulting the nurses at the old folks home because they were "doing things" to him. He was violent and unmanageable, in Scio lingo; type three.

So, here was June, and she wasn't nobody either, she'd worked on the ship and at Saint Hill with Elron. When you look up "certificate" in the tech dictionary it was her OT cert that the picture was of, in her maiden name though. I think that dictionary was printed in the '70s, so that's how long she'd been on the Route to Total Freedom (tm).

While I was on the six month check from hell replete with tailor made FPRD and was being molded into a Rex Fowler she was navigating the EP check. She was having plenty of ups and downs too, she had all she could afford paid for in advance and was staying off base on a shoe string, she had one int elig and three weeks accommodation paid for on the ship and the big prize; OTVIII! She was looking forward to that , as we all were, like it was a golden nirvana awaiting us at the end of the marathon that was Solo Nots OTVII.

I left Flag as she was finishing VII, we were all so happy for her, it looked like her dream was coming true, she was going to the ship to do VIII!

The last I heard she ran out of hours on the sec check/elig and had no means of getting more, she went home without starting VIII. She was always planning to use every dollar she had or could raise to get there and finish her days on the pension in a retirement village.

We were heart broken for her at the time, not going OTee and all, on reflection it was a small mercy.

Yes I remember both June & Ron with great affection.

I am sorry to hear that Ron had died.

I remember his anger and frustration at his daughters 'expensive' handlings
at a time of her greatest need.

A lovely family destroyed by the cofs in more ways than one.

 

[Panda Termint]

Yes, these thoughts crossed my mind too. Another quiet tragedy.

 

[tina1000]

This made me realize the perils of being too positive.
This woman is like Mr mago petting a lion, but calling it
A kitty cat. Also hanging off the wing of an airplane in midair
Thinking he's at the beach on a windy day.
How is it possible for someone to be in that for 60 years
Without noticing she's in a CULT. Come on lady. Really.
60 years? Now she's getting her grand kids mixed up in this
Too! She wins the worlds record for being oblivious for the
Longest amount of time.

I want to say that I was wrong to criticize her. I just got upset that this
Is obviously being used by scientology to advertise to elderly people
And to confirm the vision of an idealized future to younger scientologist.
People of this age are on a fixed income in many cases, and I just
Think its dangerous to look at this lady and idealize what she
Did. She does look happy and she must have gone thru an awful
Lot to get to that point. In my opinion there are many ways to stay active and young
In heart and mind as the years pass. I do give her credit for her spirit to keep learning
And to keep working towards new acomplishments. I do admire her for that.

 

[Magoo]

I just feel very sorry for her.

Amen.

If you're "in" and reading this:

BAIL WHILE YOU STILL CAN, PLEASE.
This is not for me, or any of us out---this is for YOU.
You *are* being conn'd---in the deepest way possible: Mind Control.
I can hear it: "no no, child, not I"...Ok, then read this, please:

Just ask yourself: When I joined Scientology, IF someone had said to me:
"Well, when you get to the top, realize WE shall decide who you can and cannot speak to, what you can and cannot read, actually your thoughts,
and TOTALLY ALL YOUR MONEY (and possibly cut you off from certain people you dearly love)---

***WOULD YOU HAVE EVER JOINED????? Answer *honestly*, please.
Honestly to yourself. No one can hear you. This is you---to you.

Love and more love,

Tory/Magoo
PS: re ***---If you say, "That isn't true"...Ok, ask yourself THIS: WHY IS IT THE CRITICS
OF SCIENTOLOGY ***CAN*** (and do) say: "Look at BOTH sides, and MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND"
Why can't your "church" say that? WHY NOT? Deal breaker, every time.