Auditing minus Scientology exist?

Discussion in 'Human Potential, Self Discovery' started by Veda, Mar 24, 2017.

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  1. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    [​IMG]
    Beware!





    I recently had a discussion with someone seeking to learn the bare basics, and discipline, of auditing. This would be auditing, as an elementary activity, minus most of Scientology theory. There was no place I could recommend he could go. The tiny, perhaps 0.5% of Scientology, that is - IMO - potentially beneficial has not been isolated by anyone or any group.

    Perhaps it's not worth the bother.

    Strange that the bare basics of auditing only survive when contaminated by lots of Scientology.

    Seems a shame that someone with a curiosity about learning auditing minus (most of) Scientology, must resort to seeking "services" from the wacky Freezone.

    Does anyone have any idea what I'm saying?

    If not, don't worry about it. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  2. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    No :biggrin:

    But that'd be interesting you tell more. :coolwink:
     
  3. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Does auditing minus Scientology exist?

    Didn't the early greeks audit Apollo through the Oracle and its high priestesses or Pythia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia


    On the seventh day of each month, she would be led by two attended oracular priests, with her face veiled in purple.[37] A priest would then declaim:
    "Servant of the Delphian Apollo
    Go to the Castallian Spring
    Wash in its silvery eddies,
    And return cleansed to the temple.
    Guard your lips from offence
    To those who ask for oracles.
    Let the God's answer come
    Pure from all private fault".


    ....observation made by Plutarch, who presided as high priest at Delphi for several years, who stated that her oracular powers appeared to be associated with vapors from the Kerna spring waters that flowed under the temple. It has often been suggested that these vapors may have been hallucinogenic gases.

    But maybe that is also a bit much.

    Then there is of course the Socratic Audit
    http://www.socraticmethod.net/how_to_use_the_socratic_method/using_the_socratic_method.html


    https://books.google.com.ph/books?i...EIGDAA#v=onepage&q=the socratic audit&f=false

    -But in listening to you and I think I hear you correctly, yes, there is auditing without the dogma or add-ons of scientology.
     
  4. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I like to think I've achieved that, to some extent, with my PaulsRobot stuff. However, my main interest has been in getting PaulsRobot to work well, not in training others to wear the practitioner hat.

    It's similar to the Dwarf's Div6 video installations that remove live humans as a data source. Yeah, real people are er, more human, but who knows wtf they're going to say/do by themselves?

    Paul
     
  5. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?


    Auditing? You mean just listening to somebody?

    Hardly an LRH original though he may have thought so.

    [​IMG]



    :wink2:
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  6. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    I get what you're saying. And the cheese-in-the-trap analogy is very apt. Many, many discussions on this board about the "goodness of the cheese".

    But I think part of the trap is to convince a person, who doesn't really like cheese in the first place, that they NEED the cheese, that the cheese tastes BETTER than it really does, and that it is HEALTHFUL (rather than constipation-causing) and that convinces them to write success stories about how AWESOME the cheese is. Also, that if they don't get MORE cheese in their diet, they are doomed to live a sad eternity, so best to mortgage your house for more and more CHEESE!!!

    Only when the trap comes down on your head, do you realize that Scientology IS the trap and the cheese was just tasty bait.

    And who needs cheese anyway?
     
  7. phenomanon

    phenomanon Gold Meritorious Patron

    OK I read the whole thread.
    It's not worth going back to the OP. I only have so much time here on this Planet at this time..
     
  8. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Thanks.


    As an example of the 0.5% of Scientology with the potential to benefit a person, at least in the short term:

    I've used a number of Creation of Human Ability processes with interesting results. One that comes to mind is called 'Union Station' ('Other People'). Process 'R2-46', if I recall correctly. It's run outdoors in large areas with lots of people standing around. I've used it several times.

    The last time was in an airport, on a somewhat distressed young woman - who couldn't stop hiccuping - waiting in line in front of me. I established contact, by acknowledging her condition by saying - in an upbeat and non-ridiculing way - "hiccups," to which she nodded her head. I then added, "Try this," and before she could say, "no," had her, "Have that person (a person about fifty feet away) have the hiccups. (She understood that that only meant imagine that the person had the hiccups, and proceeded). I had her "give the hiccups" to about a dozen people and the hiccups disappeared. She had no idea that I had run her on an old process from 1950s Scientology, and I didn't tell her, but I could have, and she might be on the Road to Xenu right now, and, if I were still a member of Scientology, I could even be collecting an "FSM" (Field Staff Member) commission.

    Hubbard's stuff (and others' stuff with his name substituted) from the 1950s is not all crazy. It had its flashes of brilliance. A lot of people who've ended up on the Scientological hamster wheel :hamster: have, initially, become enchanted with material of this sort.

    It would be nice if a person, with a desire to do some kind of auditing - on self or others - had a place to go and satisfy his curiosity without being at risk of being sucked into the Scientology labyrinth.

    Unfortunately, the Freezone does not qualify.

    It seems that when the manipulation, the hype, and the craziness disappear, the remaining 0.5% is not enough to a attract enough people to make a go of it.

    Such a course in the positive (used a bait in Scientology) .05%., along with a companion course in the details of Destructive Cultism, might help some.

    The person would have been familiarized with the (seemingly) positive lead in aspect, and familiarized with the negative aspect that lurks behind it.

    A pretty thorough inoculation.
     
  9. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    Not convinced of the brilliance of R2-46. Maybe her hiccups might have gone away in a few minutes if you had just stood there and talked to her. Hiccups have been known to go away in a few minutes in 99.99% of all cases. Sometimes it just takes a distraction...like a total stranger coming up and engaging her with a weird request.
     
  10. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I don't fall on my knees and worship R2-46, but on a few occasions it's alleviated (mild) unwanted conditions. It has to do with "remedying scarcity." Kind of a psychological gimmick that sometimes is effective. The changes are pretty sudden and always appreciated by the person. It's the kind of thing that can hook a person into Scientology. Insisting to the person that what he recognizes as an obvious change by a simple mental exercise, did not occur, usually doesn't help inoculate the person against Scientology.
     
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    What's the cheese, or maybe you should say what's the carrot on a stick? :confused2:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrot_and_stick

    "The "carrot and stick" approach (also "carrot or stick approach") is an idiom that refers to a policy of offering a combination of rewards and punishment to induce good behavior."

    Let's consider the Introduction to Scientology Ethics book.:confused2:

    But, isn't the carrot "clear", and then later on "OT"?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  12. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Since before Scientology I've fixed hiccups in self and others by saying/doing, "OK, for the next minute try to hiccup as many times as you can." Works every single time with me. After a few years in Scn I "discovered" it worked by consciously doing what the body was doing automatically, or taking over the automaticity. Dunno what the real reason is now.

    Paul
     
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    well, every time I have gas in my stomach, and it hurts, I cause myself to burp, and keep doing it for awhile, I guess this is called heartburn, but after a few minutes it goes away. Thank god I don't need to tell the C/S or go in session, LOL
     
  14. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    This is like fixing the attention onto something other than the hiccups, when you call this fixation of attention 'Union Station' ('Other People'). Process 'R2-46', then you have implied that the "scientology process" is of value.
    How often has hubbard used a form of mental exercise and attached it to scientology by renaming it?
     
  15. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Goldenrod SP

    This idea of distracting the body in order to overcome a physical problem seems to happen a lot and it wasn't invented by Hubbard.

    In both Veda and Paul's examples the body was doing something and the person distracts it in some way, which causes the body intelligence to stop what it's doing.

    This is what Ron Miscavige used to do before he got into scientology. Whenever David had an asthma attack Ron would make him do weightlifting and the attack would stop. Ron did the same thing for himself when he had toothache.

    It seems to me the same kind of thing is being mentioned in the EMDR thread. There appears to be some basic principle at work here.

    It does seem like you can distract the body intelligence in certain instances but obviously it isn't a technique that would work for every physical problem.
     
  16. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Sorry, but the person was reminded of hiccups repeatedly. I've used this same psychological gimmick on other (mild) conditions, including (mild) unwanted fixations/worry. It's different from simply having the person notice other things.

    There's sometimes some limited efficacy to some psychological gimmicks. Would you feel better if it was someone else's idea that Hubbard stole? It probably was, but if it wasn't?, what then? What if Hubbard, in his huge outpouring pf words, actually had - gasp - a good idea once in a rare while? Not Earth shaking or life changing but just some mild little idea. Is it a sin to acknowledge it?

    The people with whom I did this were never told about "Scientology," were not told about "auditing," and certainly weren't told the name of an old "process." I identified it here as this is a place where people would be familiar with such things.

    Is it required that absolutely nothing is of any value, no matter how slight the value?

    I'm not good at obeying requrements. :no:Sorry.:hattip: I'm also not good at obeying the rules of political correctness.:nervous:

    Undoubtedly, plenty of times. :)
     
  17. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    See prior post.
     
  18. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    The "carrot" is any desirable condition in the future. The #1 carrot, of course, is "OT."

    The image posted (first post), with "Beware" under it, is of cheese with a mouse trap. "Cheese" is a little different from "carrot" since one gets to taste some of the "cheese."

    "Carrots" are elusive.

    So what are you saying that I don't already know?

    Answer: nothing. :)
     
  19. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    "What if Hubbard, in his huge outpouring of words, actually had - gasp - a good idea once in a rare while? Not Earth shaking or life changing but just some mild little idea. Is it a sin to acknowledge it?"

    Because scientology and those using scientology to "fix" people are not content with an occasional insight. They use any insight, wherever it may have originated, to further scientology and to substantiate what they experienced in scientology as defined by scientology. If you attach the scientology name to the idea it implies the correctness of other ideas in scientology.
     

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