Avatar – A Scientology Spin Off
- Thread starter GreyWolf
- Start date
In present time
Gold Meritorious Patron
Yep, I got caught up in that one. I took the initial course from a couple. The man was an OT and the woman was a psychologist. I was completely blown away on the first course. I really loved the discreation techniques, they were so refreshing compared to Scientology. It seems one of the most evil things about Scientology is the "no case on post" attitude. This leads to people repressing their troubles or real emotions as bank. So, if you really have an upset you are simply expected to keep quiet and hope you can save up a few thousand for a block of auditing where you are FINALLY allowed to speak to someone about what troubles you.
In Avatar you can use the discreation processes on the fly, and you can be "source". What a concept, eh?
The biggest mistake I made was taking the masters course down in Orlando. The supervisors were all over the map and did not really understand the materials. As a heavily indoctrinated Scientologist I was pretty offended by how squirrelly they were. I found their lack of grasp of the avatar materials offensive.
I met Harry, and got along well with him. Perhaps a little too well because I managed to attract the ire of the "goddess" of all things avatar, and his wife AVRA. She was a bad Chanel handbag advert and demanded that everyone love and admire her. She would hold dances after class and you were expected if not required to get all touchy feely with everyone. This sort of interaction with strangers makes me uncomfortable so I opted out. I did give it a go the first night because I guess I thought it would be just a one time thing, sort of a warming up party. There were about three hundred people on the course which was held in a hotel conference room. That first night some creepy guy who had his eye on me all day grabbed me for the dance and he had a major boner going on. I was SO offended. These little nuances seem to make Avra suspicious of me, like I might be a troublemaker of some sort. She pretty much would NOT stay off my ass for the whole rest of the course. Constantly coming over to my area and flunking me on drills I had already passed with other supervisors. Long story short, ten thousands dollars later she informed me that I would not get my masters certification. (I really wanted to deliver avatar to others, because I found the basic processes very helpful.) I also implied that I wanted to give it away for free. BIG no no right? So, I left Orlando pretty much devastated, and returned back to California where I really could not seem to get a grip on my life. The processes are very powerfulI think, but I was completely able to not be affected by ANYTHING. I think my young daughters sensed this and they became HORRID. The girlfriend who had stayed with my girls for the couple of weeks I was gone was begging me to please take my life back. It was all very strange, I was completely "keyed out" from the processes and also caved in from being declared not fit to be a "master." Oh, and I still hate Avra to this day, she is a despicable and dishonest person.
Harry had his own serious run in withs Scientology as you can imagine, and you can put him on the long list of people who have had their pets murdered by GO/OSA. In his case it was his border collie. A very sad story.
In Avatar you can use the discreation processes on the fly, and you can be "source". What a concept, eh?
The biggest mistake I made was taking the masters course down in Orlando. The supervisors were all over the map and did not really understand the materials. As a heavily indoctrinated Scientologist I was pretty offended by how squirrelly they were. I found their lack of grasp of the avatar materials offensive.
I met Harry, and got along well with him. Perhaps a little too well because I managed to attract the ire of the "goddess" of all things avatar, and his wife AVRA. She was a bad Chanel handbag advert and demanded that everyone love and admire her. She would hold dances after class and you were expected if not required to get all touchy feely with everyone. This sort of interaction with strangers makes me uncomfortable so I opted out. I did give it a go the first night because I guess I thought it would be just a one time thing, sort of a warming up party. There were about three hundred people on the course which was held in a hotel conference room. That first night some creepy guy who had his eye on me all day grabbed me for the dance and he had a major boner going on. I was SO offended. These little nuances seem to make Avra suspicious of me, like I might be a troublemaker of some sort. She pretty much would NOT stay off my ass for the whole rest of the course. Constantly coming over to my area and flunking me on drills I had already passed with other supervisors. Long story short, ten thousands dollars later she informed me that I would not get my masters certification. (I really wanted to deliver avatar to others, because I found the basic processes very helpful.) I also implied that I wanted to give it away for free. BIG no no right? So, I left Orlando pretty much devastated, and returned back to California where I really could not seem to get a grip on my life. The processes are very powerfulI think, but I was completely able to not be affected by ANYTHING. I think my young daughters sensed this and they became HORRID. The girlfriend who had stayed with my girls for the couple of weeks I was gone was begging me to please take my life back. It was all very strange, I was completely "keyed out" from the processes and also caved in from being declared not fit to be a "master." Oh, and I still hate Avra to this day, she is a despicable and dishonest person.
Harry had his own serious run in withs Scientology as you can imagine, and you can put him on the long list of people who have had their pets murdered by GO/OSA. In his case it was his border collie. A very sad story.
In present time
Gold Meritorious Patron
And hey, thanks for posting this!
GreyWolf
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you so much for filling in some details.
This is NOT OK !!!!
Gold Meritorious Patron
Great job Grey Wolf!
Nice and very clean site!
Nice and very clean site!
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you, again, Grey - another nut job and his group of brainwashed followers EXPOSED. Be GLAD you flunked, In Present Time. Trading one cult for another 
- not good. You are FREE - to think and feel what you want, to make any decision you want, to choose who and what you want to affiliate with and do with your life. Be GLAD you flunked. Hallelujah ! 
Silver linings . . .
- not good. You are FREE - to think and feel what you want, to make any decision you want, to choose who and what you want to affiliate with and do with your life. Be GLAD you flunked. Hallelujah ! Silver linings . . .
In present time
Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah, I must have some incredibly strong propensities toward cults. But man, I am still mad about flunking. I had that avatar material DUPLICATED, for better or worse. It was just a random call Avra made out of spite after she took my ten grand.Thank you, again, Grey - another nut job and his group of brainwashed followers EXPOSED. Be GLAD you flunked, In Present Time. Trading one cult for another
Youre right I probably am very lucky, because you see after the masters get licensed the next part of the scam is to get them to pay big money to the avatar magazine for advertising layouts to hustle students in.Im talking thousands and thousands, and of course stars edge gets ten percent off the top of what any new student pays you, and if you get that student to go on and do masters you get a commission, and round and round we go with another cult pyramid scam. I do like Harry though, he seemed like if nothing else he was helping people out of that "run Ron's bank" trap you get into on the upper levels in scn. Hey don't run Ron's bank run Harry's, or just run to the bank in general and give us your money, LOL!
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
Avatar is packaged far better than Scientology,
He gives you a story about his background which is far more entertaining and believable than Hubbard's non-sense.
http://avatarepc.com/html/eliving.html
he even gives you a few free pdf files of everything that is of any use in the course ... hoping to suck you into becoming an Avatar Master
http://avatarepc.com/html/mini-eng.html
And then the fun begins ... yep you guessed it, Body Thetans but this time they are wrapped up in a brand new shiny packaged called 'Entities'
http://jeta.home.xs4all.nl/avatar/avatar-exorcism-procedure.html
If you are hell bent on paying thousands of dollars to chase around imaginary disembodied space aliens which you believe are running around in your head, it's a better option than Scientology.
But if you want my opinion, I'd skip Scientology and all it clones altogether and choose sanity, I find it to be a much better option.
He gives you a story about his background which is far more entertaining and believable than Hubbard's non-sense.
http://avatarepc.com/html/eliving.html
he even gives you a few free pdf files of everything that is of any use in the course ... hoping to suck you into becoming an Avatar Master
http://avatarepc.com/html/mini-eng.html
And then the fun begins ... yep you guessed it, Body Thetans but this time they are wrapped up in a brand new shiny packaged called 'Entities'
http://jeta.home.xs4all.nl/avatar/avatar-exorcism-procedure.html
If you are hell bent on paying thousands of dollars to chase around imaginary disembodied space aliens which you believe are running around in your head, it's a better option than Scientology.
But if you want my opinion, I'd skip Scientology and all it clones altogether and choose sanity, I find it to be a much better option.
phenomanon
Canyon
I won the Avatar course at a raffle , which was held during an Independents' meeting at Thea and Lloyd Greenberg's house in the late 80s.
I liked the course just fine. I was not inclined to pursue it after the initial course. I was not interested in being a Master, or delivering it to others. Or joining any movements. LOL.
There were a couple of steps on the program that were terrific for me. One of them went something like "What would you have to believe in order to...." I 'ran' it on the subject of disconnection.
Mark Jones was my facilitator for the course.
There was one step on the program that I 'ran' while in the building with Mark and some others. I think that it was prolly the last step on the program. Whatever it was, I had a release that was felt on the floor above us. Some ppl from there came down to the first floor and asked us what had happened.LOL.
I think initial Avatar is/was great as a 'deprogramming' method. Unfortunately, a true believer is a true believer, so those that were Scientologists often got deeply involved in the Avatar practice.
I liked the course just fine. I was not inclined to pursue it after the initial course. I was not interested in being a Master, or delivering it to others. Or joining any movements. LOL.
There were a couple of steps on the program that were terrific for me. One of them went something like "What would you have to believe in order to...." I 'ran' it on the subject of disconnection.
Mark Jones was my facilitator for the course.
There was one step on the program that I 'ran' while in the building with Mark and some others. I think that it was prolly the last step on the program. Whatever it was, I had a release that was felt on the floor above us. Some ppl from there came down to the first floor and asked us what had happened.LOL.
I think initial Avatar is/was great as a 'deprogramming' method. Unfortunately, a true believer is a true believer, so those that were Scientologists often got deeply involved in the Avatar practice.
In January 1987, I read an ad in "The Free Spirit" magazine, (published by Mark Jones, an upstanding ex $scn) about a new course "Avatar" which promised, absolutely, to deliver complete spiritual freedom and enlightenment in the tradition of Buddhism and the claims of Scientology.
I, an ex churchie and disappointed $cn, was intrigued by this gutsy claim so I called the # in the ad and talked to an attractive sounding woman, Margie, in Elmira, New York. Well, I decided to cast my fate to the wind and head to Elmira to take the course.
Upon arrival, I met the burly, red headed Harry Palmer and his slender friendly wife Avra. I signed up, paid, and started the class located in an old Victorian house which earlier had been a $cientology mission.
After a few days of theory and exercises Harry guided me through the "discreation process"
The results were stunningly effective at making me feel "blown out".
So I took the materials to my rented room, made a list of unwanted feelings, emotions and beliefs and ran "discreate" process on them. It felt so effective and liberating that I got carried away and decided to run both positive and negative feelings and thoughts with the idea being that enlightenment comes about by letting go of all considerations.
The next day I went to Harry's office and described my running everything, rather than the prescribed "unwanted" things. He seemed quite interested in the idea.
More later. The story does not end well....
I, an ex churchie and disappointed $cn, was intrigued by this gutsy claim so I called the # in the ad and talked to an attractive sounding woman, Margie, in Elmira, New York. Well, I decided to cast my fate to the wind and head to Elmira to take the course.
Upon arrival, I met the burly, red headed Harry Palmer and his slender friendly wife Avra. I signed up, paid, and started the class located in an old Victorian house which earlier had been a $cientology mission.
After a few days of theory and exercises Harry guided me through the "discreation process"
The results were stunningly effective at making me feel "blown out".
So I took the materials to my rented room, made a list of unwanted feelings, emotions and beliefs and ran "discreate" process on them. It felt so effective and liberating that I got carried away and decided to run both positive and negative feelings and thoughts with the idea being that enlightenment comes about by letting go of all considerations.
The next day I went to Harry's office and described my running everything, rather than the prescribed "unwanted" things. He seemed quite interested in the idea.
More later. The story does not end well....
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah, I must have some incredibly strong propensities toward cults. But man, I am still mad about flunking. I had that avatar material DUPLICATED, for better or worse. It was just a random call Avra made out of spite after she took my ten grand.
Youre right I probably am very lucky, because you see after the masters get licensed the next part of the scam is to get them to pay big money to the avatar magazine for advertising layouts to hustle students in.Im talking thousands and thousands, and of course stars edge gets ten percent off the top of what any new student pays you, and if you get that student to go on and do masters you get a commission, and round and round we go with another cult pyramid scam. I do like Harry though, he seemed like if nothing else he was helping people out of that "run Ron's bank" trap you get into on the upper levels in scn. Hey don't run Ron's bank run Harry's, or just run to the bank in general and give us your money, LOL!
Some people in power are vindictive, especially when they are envious. Look at it/her that way. She was eaten up by envy, and behaved horribly. Her loss, and REALLY -Your GAIN. You did not get caught in that cult. I know how sociopathic people and the things they do to us can hound us for a long time, because we do not comprehend their ability to be so - so - evil. But they really are that evil and without conscience. Consider yourself extra lucky to have earned her ire, so she'd want to get rid of you. Whew. You dodged a bullet. Good fortune doesn't always FEEL that way. Later on, down another road, we recognize how lucky we were, to get kicked in the teeth, at some earlier moment in our lives. Sometimes that kick, saves our lives/futures - saves us decades of suffering and misery. And in your case, tons of money too.
Bless your lucky stars.
phenomanon
Canyon
DonkeyOT, please go on.
Yes, please.
So in going to Harry Palmer's office, I forgot to mention that his Doberman dog bit me in the arm. Broke the skin. Harry seemed unconcerned.
A few days later Harry "published" a "bulletin" called "The Ultimate Process" describing the exact procedure I had told him about. I might add that he presented it as being his own discovery.
After a few days I headed back to California, sitting on the plane doing the Avatar discreation process on every thought and felling that happened to arise. After arriving home I enthusiastically promoted Avatar to some of my friends and about 7 of them signed up for the course. Each of them were initially upbeat about the results.
After a couple of months Harry, Avra and a couple of other "staff" came out to the San Francisco bay area and delivered their course to quite a few locals.
A while after doing the course, and running the avatar process on myself, I started to feel anxious, thwarted and depressed. Running the process on these unwanted feelings stopped working for me. I would process and process for hours a day but instead of feeling relief I just got more and more disturbed. I ended up flying back to Upstate New York hoping to get unbugged or handled or whatever would get me out of this deep funk. (shades of my story in$cientology LOL!) Unfortunately, things did not really improve for me so I ended up giving up on Avavtar. My friends who were initially enthusiastic also slowly or quickly stopped doing Avatar.
The original Avatar course was promoted as the be -all, end -all solution to all human suffering. The claim was explicit in saying that one would never need another class or course.
Within a year Harry Palmer started selling the "Wizards course", then later the "Masters Course". So much for the earlier claims!
Of the 30 or so people i know or knew, I am not aware of a single one who is still involved in this New Age cult. To any or all of you whom I promoted Avatar, I apologize.
After $cintology and Avatar and many years, I think I've finally learned my lesson about dark cults.
A few days later Harry "published" a "bulletin" called "The Ultimate Process" describing the exact procedure I had told him about. I might add that he presented it as being his own discovery.
After a few days I headed back to California, sitting on the plane doing the Avatar discreation process on every thought and felling that happened to arise. After arriving home I enthusiastically promoted Avatar to some of my friends and about 7 of them signed up for the course. Each of them were initially upbeat about the results.
After a couple of months Harry, Avra and a couple of other "staff" came out to the San Francisco bay area and delivered their course to quite a few locals.
A while after doing the course, and running the avatar process on myself, I started to feel anxious, thwarted and depressed. Running the process on these unwanted feelings stopped working for me. I would process and process for hours a day but instead of feeling relief I just got more and more disturbed. I ended up flying back to Upstate New York hoping to get unbugged or handled or whatever would get me out of this deep funk. (shades of my story in$cientology LOL!) Unfortunately, things did not really improve for me so I ended up giving up on Avavtar. My friends who were initially enthusiastic also slowly or quickly stopped doing Avatar.
The original Avatar course was promoted as the be -all, end -all solution to all human suffering. The claim was explicit in saying that one would never need another class or course.
Within a year Harry Palmer started selling the "Wizards course", then later the "Masters Course". So much for the earlier claims!
Of the 30 or so people i know or knew, I am not aware of a single one who is still involved in this New Age cult. To any or all of you whom I promoted Avatar, I apologize.
After $cintology and Avatar and many years, I think I've finally learned my lesson about dark cults.
GreyWolf
Gold Meritorious Patron
So in going to Harry Palmer's office, I forgot to mention that his Doberman dog bit me in the arm. Broke the skin. Harry seemed unconcerned.
A few days later Harry "published" a "bulletin" called "The Ultimate Process" describing the exact procedure I had told him about. I might add that he presented it as being his own discovery.
After a few days I headed back to California, sitting on the plane doing the Avatar discreation process on every thought and felling that happened to arise. After arriving home I enthusiastically promoted Avatar to some of my friends and about 7 of them signed up for the course. Each of them were initially upbeat about the results.
After a couple of months Harry, Avra and a couple of other "staff" came out to the San Francisco bay area and delivered their course to quite a few locals.
A while after doing the course, and running the avatar process on myself, I started to feel anxious, thwarted and depressed. Running the process on these unwanted feelings stopped working for me. I would process and process for hours a day but instead of feeling relief I just got more and more disturbed. I ended up flying back to Upstate New York hoping to get unbugged or handled or whatever would get me out of this deep funk. (shades of my story in$cientology LOL!) Unfortunately, things did not really improve for me so I ended up giving up on Avavtar. My friends who were initially enthusiastic also slowly or quickly stopped doing Avatar.
The original Avatar course was promoted as the be -all, end -all solution to all human suffering. The claim was explicit in saying that one would never need another class or course.
Within a year Harry Palmer started selling the "Wizards course", then later the "Masters Course". So much for the earlier claims!
Of the 30 or so people i know or knew, I am not aware of a single one who is still involved in this New Age cult. To any or all of you whom I promoted Avatar, I apologize.
After $cintology and Avatar and many years, I think I've finally learned my lesson about dark cults.
Thank you so much for telling your story. It helps me know that I am doing the right thing.
Similar threads
