Books relating to Communism

Discussion in 'Books About Cults and Extracting Oneself from Coer' started by Winston Smith, Mar 17, 2014.

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  1. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    Hi, I have been reading several books on this lately. I started with Diana West's "American Betrayal," St Martins Press (2013) and my world view of the US and the world has been altered completely. What she has written has shaken me to my core and it explains much about our current circumstances in the US.

    This book led me to read Whittaker Chambers' book "Witness," about the Alger Hiss/Whittaker Chambers trial in 1948 and the inquiries into Communist infiltration of US government starting in the FDR administration from 1933 forward.

    From there I decided to read J Edgar Hoover's book "Masters of Deceit." That led me to POST THIS THREAD. Ha, reading
    chapter 9 is like reading about Scientology.

    It is absolutely astounding how Communism and Scientology are almost identical in their treatment of members.

    If I had it to do over, I would read J Edgar Hoover's book first, then Whittaker Chambers' book then Diana West's book. In fact I believe I will reread Diana West now, as I have a better understanding of Communism now.
     
  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Mutant

  3. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    Yes I am familiar with both; funny how going down this line of enquiry yields dozens of books. West used Venona in her research, backed up with other sources. What I wish is that every high school and university pursued this to educate us rather than hide it. Indeed enabling Communists in our midst to continue to operate with no fear.
     
  4. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    I have my Dad's copy of Hoover's "Masters of Deceit" that he bought in college back in the early 60s.

    Yes communists and Scientologists are very much alike. You know they are lying when their lips move. They're opposed to truth as much as Dracula is opposed to "Holy water".

    I was hoping to get some good tips on how to wear high heels in Hoover's book though. LOL...

    Sorry....I kid the J. Edgar. LOL....

    Oh.....and I also have my Dad's copy of "The New Class-An Analysis of the Communist System" by Milovan Djilas. Djilas was the former Vice President of Communist Yugoslavia. Needless to say he turned against Communism. Very good book. Dad also bought it in college for a PolySci class.
     
  5. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    Thanks for the book tip. I will put it on my list :melodramatic:

    I found a copy of Masters of Deceit that my brother had in high school in the mid 60s, too old with tiny print to read really so I downloaded the Kindle version.

    I rather think the sliming of J Edgar is the work of communist sympathizers, as he was really out to get them. The new movie about him I think is total trash, but what I expect from Communist Hollywood.

    I bet there is no enquiry into Communism in PolySci classes today...hits too close to home for tenured liberal Communist professors. You see I have a new outlook on things now that I read Diana West's 'American Betrayal.' That book is as hard hitting as they come. She actually started out researching Islam and its terror effort to dominate the world, but the research thread led right here to FDR. The great FDR. There was no bigger bastard in American history, he made the world safe for communism.

    Obama is now openly practicing Communism for all to see but due to our horrendous education system we don't even realize it.
    HINT: destroying capitalism is Communism's number one priority. Class warfare to that end. The idiots who demand $15 a hour for flipping burgers feed right into Obama's hand. The American way is to rise to own the freaking restaurant, not to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
     
  6. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Oh come now Winston! Where's your compassion? Our society should guarantee a $15 an hour burger flipping or retail job for every person who didn't apply themselves in school and fathered or mothered three bastard kids before the age of 20. And we should pay for their birth control devices too even though most won't use them. (I suppose today's teachers can teach the boys how to use the rubbers as they seduce them after class, then they can in turn use them on the school hoes properly. May need a "grade school sized" condom though at the rate today's teachers are going). But at least "free condoms" will provide jobs in the 2nd and 3rd world countries that manufacture them. Hey!!! Wait a minute! We should be making those condoms!! Pay the vorkers, oh I don't know, $50 dollars an hour. Obamacare can absorb the costs! LOL......

    Money is FREE......is FREE I tell ya!!!! Margaret Thatcher was wrong!! You never run out of other people's money! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE........!!!!!!

    Fire up the printing machines Janet Yellin!!! You can be Helicopter Janet!
     
  7. Enthetan

    Enthetan Mutant

    The underlying philosophy that supports that behavior in Scn, Communism (and also Islam) is the idea that the individual is the property of the Group, that the individual's only purpose is to advance the purposes of the Group as laid out by the leadership, and that individuals may be sacrificed as needed in order to forward the interests of the Group.

    And, as you note, things like truth and fair dealing go out the window when the interests of the Group are better served by lying and treachery.
     
  8. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    According to archive.org, the copyright to Masters of Deceit ran out in 1986 without being renewed so it is now in the public domain. I downloaded a scanned version from the site. It's been openly available there for some time, so I figure they're probably right about the copyright. I skimmed through the book pretty quickly and I was mildly surprised by several things.

    It's very well written, in a plain and straightforward style; it's not dry but it's not a rant. At least on many important points Hoover appears to be quite sane and decent. He acknowledges that industrial capitalism in Marx's day was indeed rife with many abuses. He distinguishes between the millions of unfortunate citizens of the communist bloc in his own day, and the few communist rulers who controlled their lives.

    Hoover's surveys of the lives and works of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin seem to be accurate and clear, as far as I can tell by comparison with some more recent scholarly works by academics who seem pretty neutral because they treat communism as past history. The only really odd thing is how Hoover literally passes over World War II in a single sentence, referring to it merely as an upheaval. The importance of the Great Patriotic War for the Soviet Union and its system obviously deserves far more mention than that. It seems that Hoover just didn't want to say anything remotely positive about communism, and it would be impossible to discuss the Eastern Front of WW2 without acknowledging that communism succeeded in maintaining an enormous and successful war effort, very much comparable to the triumph of industrial democracy. The current consensus seems to be that communism isn't as good as industrial capitalism even for waging total war, but that it is at least fairly effective at that one extreme task of economics. When he should have given even the devil his due, Hoover ducked.

    The biggest surprise for me was the portrayal of the American communist party as a cult that made outrageous demands on its members, demands of the kind that are all too familiar to Scientology watchers. I've never read any other side of the story from the one Hoover tells, but for what it's worth I find his picture convincing. Militant communists are nothing if not dogmatic, and that kind of extreme dogmatism does seem to go along with extreme control of people's lives.

    The other big surprise I found in Masters of Deceit was one of those surprises where you're surprised to see exactly what you were expecting, because even though you were expecting it you couldn't quite believe it could really be like that. Hoover was really concerned that communists were threatening to take over the United States. Looking back today, this seems about as ridiculous as the idea of Scientology clearing the planet. So it's strange to read page after page taking the notion very seriously. The American communists may well have been comparably many and well organized to Lenin's Bolsheviks, but the USA in 1958 was just nothing remotely like Russia in 1917, an absurd medieval holdover that was losing a huge war. In a failed state like late tsarist Russia, even the Sea Org could take over, with some luck. That doesn't mean the Sea Org is any threat to America today. So Hoover convinced me that communists needed to be saved from the communist cult, but not that his country needed to be saved from communism.

    I'm prepared to cut J.E. Hoover some slack and allow that, in 1958, things may have looked very different. Hindsight is 20/20. Half his book may look silly today, but that doesn't mean it was a silly book when he wrote it.

    It's a terrible shame that he didn't retire long before that, though, and write the same book as a private citizen.

    Instead, J. Edgar Hoover was director of the FBI for some 37 years, dying in office at age 77. That's a statistic worthy of the Soviet gerontocracy, a gruesome shame on a supposedly free democracy, and a grim irony for the United States of America out of all democracies, when the American constitution is so aware of the fact that power corrupts. There is and can be no excuse for letting one man hold that kind of office for that long, and the fact that it happened overshadows everything else that J. Edgar Hoover could possibly have done. Even if his entire 37 year term had been nothing but the purest ideal of public service, just by hanging on to such an office for so long, Hoover damaged his country badly.

    How much of current American authoritarianism, all the spying on citizens at home and torture on foreign soil, can be traced back to the cultural seeds planted by J. Edgar Hoover, in setting the precedent that security services should be a people apart from the people, and a state within the state?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  9. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Nice comments here above . . .

    I do recommend those interest read, Struggle for World Power by my old friend George Knupffer.

    In it you'll get the genesis of this "commie" thing and the set up to the conflict between "east and west" that was indeed intended to cause the two to be eternally in conflict so as to waste resources and subject our populations to fear and constant disruption such that the "boyz in the puppeteer's seat" could manipulate us all.

    In today's world we constantly hear about the "elites" running their thing on the rest of us . . . Get this book and get the details of how both the Imperial Russians and the West were betrayed and hoodwinked by the secret cabal of "elites," and you'll see how this manipulation has continued to today.

    Umm, just take a look at who is behind causing and getting the stupid US administration to run its shit on the rest of the world under the guise of "policeman to the planet." Take a look at the underlying why this would be done . . .

    George K explained to me that it sure as hell put lots of profit into the hands of the money-masters and it also bleeds the excess created phony money out of the system in wasted military and defense expenses thus dampening the inflationary effects that would occur if that expenditure was not bled out of the system.

    But basically, the "war threat" and conflict between east and west is staged as a misdirector to capture our attention and take it off of the real takeover that is going on by the money masters.

    Ever noticed that the solutions to the "war threat" and "terrorism" always result in more take over and takeaway and lessening of our freedoms and prosperity?

    Read Knupffer's book. Paperback available on Amazon. Get the revised edition if possible.

    Umm, and for the record, George knows what he wrote of. He explained to me that he had been approached by "both sides" to assist in a take over of Russia and to install a new government that would oust Stalin . . . he also explained how this verified the money power that was behind the financing and set up of both sides such that they are in conflict with each other.

    You'll read in his book that the first action of Lenin's after they took over government was to call in a banker from Scandinavia to "reform" the Russian banks . . . . :duh: :angry:

    And, as noted above, the US educational system has not only hidden the truths of these events but has totally misinformed our people and filled their heads with misinformation and lies . . . . just as is going on today with the events in Ukraine.

    R
     
  10. koki

    koki Silver Meritorious Patron

    I loved our Yugoslavian communism..... we were border between west-east... and our "dear leader" Tito, take best from both sides... we were communist in WEST eye,and capitalist in EAST eye.... good times with lots of money.....
    I remember a time when our passport (in black market) were most expensive- because you can travel all around the world...with out being accused as a west/east spy.....:melodramatic:
     
  11. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    SOT, I really do recommend you read Knupffer's book. It will give you a whole new perspective to compare your above comment against.

    You wrote:



    This is so far from the truth, even though I know it is the conventional wisdom as conveyed by the West's propaganda machine and educational system, you'll be surprised to get the actual stats of the time.

    Rog
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  12. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    DOX PLOX

    I did actually live in the place, you know.
     
  13. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader


    I'll bet you didn't live there at the time I and SOT am referring to . . . pre- WW1 and during it.

    As to Dox, read the bloody book I recommend . . . It is written by a guy who actually was there at the time and involved in the events!!!! Surely that info is more valid than being there 50 or so years later and getting the revisionist history by the "winners" version of it.

    I find it interesting to collide with refutations like this by those who won't go the materials already provided . . .

    Classic psycho-political type responses . . . :duh:
     
  14. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    I'm afraid I basically never read anything longer than a page or so without first being convinced by a brief summary that it will be worth reading the whole thing. I guess I'm spoiled by scientific papers, which always have an abstract. If the abstract doesn't grab you, you don't read the paper.

    Professional photographers are probably pretty annoying. You want to show one this great shot you got on your smartphone; he asks how much it's worth, and won't even look at it unless you can first tell him why it would sell for over a thousand. Scientists are kind of like that, for ideas, I'm afraid. I work with really cool ideas every day; they're mostly not my ideas, but I deal with them. So I'm jaded like the photographer. I don't want to spend any time on an idea without first being convinced that it's sufficiently solid.

    What does Knupffer say? If he contradicts my contrast between 1958 American and 1917 Russia, how does he contradict it? Does he say that 1958 America was more vulnerable, or that 1917 Russia was more robust? What kind of evidence and argument does he use to establish his conclusions? Revisionist history isn't necessarily crackpot, but on ample empirical evidence it is crackpot by default, especially if it's as conspiracist as Knupffer sounds; so what are the best indications that Knupffer's not a crackpot?
     
  15. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    Very interesting info, Rog, koki and Udarnik. In Diana West's book, she points out that Tito was placed there by Stalin and FDR did nothing to prop up the other guy, whose name escapes me. Except that he was dispatched, liquidated, made into dust as Stalin was so fond of doing. The reason I push 'American Betrayal' is that it exposes all that Harry Hopkins and FDR did to help Stalin take over so much of eastern Europe. Hopkins was FDR's aide who greased the skids for communism to flourish both here and in Russia.

    Lend/Lease was the vehicle through which Russia got thousands of heavy trucks and jeeps to sweep across the tundra to get to Hitler. All well and good except that in the Philippines our boys were being slaughtered by the Japs because FDR and Hopkins diverted desperately needed planes and supplies to Russia, leaving McArthur high and dry. The Bataan Death march was a direct result of the great FDR ignoring our own men.

    And ever wonder how Russia got the atomic bomb? Manhattan Project had Russian spies all over it, and Hopkins saw to it that uranium was shipped to Moscow in 1944. Hopkins died in 1946, right after FDR so much of this was swept under the rug. Truman did everything to thwart McCarthy, a man who history has been very unkind to. He was right. There were communists in the State Department (probably still are), the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, Labor Department, Lend/Lease Program, on and on. And further we had American communists in Beijing making the way safe for Mao to overthrow Chiank Kai-Shek (sp?) So FDR assisted in China going communist also.

    And if you want to get more sick and outraged by our United States Government, do you know what happened to our GIs in
    Hitler's POW camps? We fucking turned them over to Stalin, Truman and Eisenhower did next to nothing to recover them after the war. Think about that...thousands of our fathers rotted in the Gulag. I could go on, but it makes me puke.

    It is a fucked up world. As a result of what I have read, everything Obama does reeks of communism to me. If we survive democrat efforts to destroy our country, it will be a miracle.

    In other news:
    Terry McAuliffe, the jackass that stole the Virginia governor's office has already started his tricks. He is selling access to himself to the tune of up to $100,000 for private meetings. He has told our legislature that he will not pay our bills unless he gets his way. See, we are fucked.
     
  16. koki

    koki Silver Meritorious Patron

    actually Tito was a first Communist president ,that say NO to Stalin..... there were few attempts of murder on Tito directed by Stalin.
    just use google. you will be amazed by that kind of history.....:wink2:
     
  17. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    The last time I was at FLAG - the Mecca of Technical Extortion - I had a cognition - Scientology IS COMMUNISM - regges at every corner - DEMANDING money, money, money with nothing back in exchange and no accountability - hiding the financial statements from members and lying where the money is spent! :yes: There is a covert implant too - you, as a Scientologist, need the Organization to control everything, because you can't! You are too stupid an clue less and the Great Wizzard of Oz that hides at the INT BASE - knows all!:omg:
     
  18. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    J Edgar makes a big deal in his book the way American communists were badgered into 24/7 service and giving every last penny to the Party. Very much indeed like Scn.
     
  19. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    I missed that, sorry. But Stalin did hang the other non-communist guy.
     
  20. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    So, it's government of the sociopaths, by the sociopaths and for the sociopaths?

    Good point though. But any political group is like that, depending upon their degree of fanaticism.
     

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