Can someone help me re: Sea Org contracts at Flag

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by EZ Linus, Apr 23, 2018.

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  1. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    Are you sure you were in the same Scientology I was in? :p
  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Recruiters will take "no" for an answer. You just have to present your arguments the right way. For most of them, "no" generally needs to be accompanied by threats of violence and/or legal action before they take the hint.
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  3. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I've never known a recruiter to be put off by a prospect's family being wealthy. In fact, having family subsidize an SO member's basic needs or things like medical or auto insurance, gas and maintenance in hopes that with their own transportation their child will visit them more often or can escape when they wake up, generally serves as another form of subsidy to the Church itself. Staff with their own vehicles will be expected to use those vehicles for Church business and they will be expected to use their own money for it's upkeep. It's so difficult to make requests (CSW-Completed Staff Work) for reimbursement of Church related expenses that staff often don't bother to try and eventually burn through their savings. This is an asset stripping operation after all and affluent families have assets to strip. Their children are also probably more inclined to be educated, idealistic and naive - desirable qualities for an SO recruit.

    I think most people only last in the SO for about 2 - 3 years before they realize that the lifestyle is simply unsustainable and this isn't what they were expecting. If they have their own savings going in or family help then this can mitigate some of the day-to-day grinding wear and extend their stay - a positive from a recruiter's standpoint.

    Every new recruit will be sec-checked after they route onto the EPF but as I recall they are also given a metered interview or "informal mini sec-check" prior to routing onto the EPF. This would include questions such as; Are you there on your own volition? Are you working for someone else? Is anyone against you joining the SO.

    If there is any slightest chance that a disqualifying thing can be resolved then the prospect will be put on a readiness program with the recruiter or some other person as a handler. This recruiter or handler may in turn be supervised closely by their own version of a handler. I think it is unlikely that a recruiter would let a prospect off the hook unilaterally. They make daily reports to seniors about everything, even if they encountered a prospect but determined they were not eligible. A near miss may not be a stat but at least it's something to fill the dead space in a daily report. Recruiters are heavily micro-managed, even more than most Sea Org members because, unless they are sociopaths, instinctively they know what they are doing is an abomination and it takes pure force of will to keep on doing it. Even a reg is just taking your money - a recruiter is taking your everything. Every recruit routed onto the EPF is a stat on a closely watched graph. If that graph dips it's a red flag that the recruiter is developing a conscience - they are becoming in Scientology terms "reasonable". They are going into agreement with the prospect's counter intention and present time problems. According to LRH, Sea Org members are OT by virtue of being in the Sea Org. Non-Sea Org Scientologists are considered by recruiters to still be under the influence of their reactive minds, the suppressive influence of conservatism in society, they are operating on a lower level of ethics, awareness and purpose - it's up to the recruiter, with their combined force of pure theta and intention, to make them complete enough to fulfill their true destiny. You get the idea. Maybe the stat crashing recruiter is feeling guilty knowing what really awaits these people. That would be an indicator that the recruiter is out-ethics themselves, going into agreement with the wog world. If you are in-ethics you do not get reasonable over things that are necessary to save the planet and further the goals of Scientology. It would be time to sec-check the recruiter, assign them lower conditions, get them to write-up their overts and withholds (transgressions), post them somewhere else, RPF them, or identify them as the SP set out to destroy the whole org.

    If a recruiter is org staff then they may be reporting all the way up lines to the Commanding Officer of that one org and even that Commanding Officer may be having to report on individual recruiting cycles to upper management in the Continental Liaison Office, if they have taken a special interest in recruiting for that org, which they often do. Keep in mind that lower level org recruitment is a feeder line for upper management recruitment and better qualified staff in lower orgs are often transferred or ripped off by upper units and replaced with their lower qualified staff. Some recruiters are on mission aka special project. There can be 2 - 5 people on the mission, an I/C (In-Charge), a 2nd, 3rd, etc. and minimally they report daily to their I/C and mission operations. Mission operations is also a unit so a recruitment mission's operation officer is making daily reports to their senior(s). These are mostly run out of Continental Liaison Offices but there are a number of upper management entities that have authority to operate missions. In short, when dealing with a recruiter you are most likely dealing with at least 3 levels of seniority and they have their own program customized for you and how to deal with everyone in your family or anyone who may present a problem. The recruit gives them the information they need. That recruit probably isn't going to turn around and tell everyone how they are helping their handlers.

    Recruit prospects may not understand all of the machinations behind their recruit cycle but if love bombing and appealing to their sense of higher purpose doesn't work to break down resistance then they will play the heavier cards like the SPs are out to destroy the world, nuclear war is nigh and this is the last fleeting moment to salvage your spiritual freedom for eternity. The prospect can intuit that things are getting creepy, culty and forced - time to strategize a diplomatic retreat and minimize the collateral damage.
  4. Out Ethics

    Out Ethics Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer

    Scientologists LIE - they do not follow policies unless David Miscavige can prosper and flourish...

    so it could be any reason

    reasons only known to Xemu or Xenu.
  5. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    The book used to train recruiters is "Big League Sales Closing Techniques" by Les Dane.

    This is essentially a cold blooded manual on manipulation and duplicity, so in effect, yes...the policy for recruiters is to lie and do anything to close the deal.
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  6. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    The first time I signed the contract, I got very excited about it, but about half way thru the testing I got scared out of my wits....I paniced and left not knowing why I was so scared. I never went back. Then, later at AOLA, when they came after me to join I already had watch the SO for about 3 years, both at ASHO and AOLA and didn't like the crummy lifestyle....horrible housing, sometimes not enough to eat with SO staff living on peanut butter, rice and beans and knew I could never survive on a diet like that,....especially since I am deadly allergic to peanuts....

    Not enough money to meet their hygiene needs or anything else.....long, long hours of work with no reward for their services.......and I saw the staff resenting the paying public for all they had, while the SO were treated like indentured slaves. It's no wonder they resented the paying public who had all the money, cars, clothes, and all the other luxuries that the staff had to go without unless they already were wealthy to begin withor had some other form of outside income.

    But I also saw a woman who joined the SO who had money, and my senior at AOLA was trying to reg her for spending all of her money for buying books and auditing to get every penny out of her that she could. When the lady said no, my senior wrote her up to ethics for not being supportive to Scientology and for not giving them everything that she owned. They not only wanted all of her time, attention and energy, for the rest of her life, they also wanted everything she owned.
    As far as being on staff in the SO goes, Scientology is a giant sucking machine.....a giant vacuum...:vacuum: that takes everything from you and gives nothing back except misery :depressed: , unhappiness :bigcry: and a wasted life. :gaah:

    Some exchange, eh? Total sacrifice on your part so that LRH could live his life of luxury, with his millions $, and now little Davey lives like a king while the rest of the SO continues in slavery and poverty as long as they continue to be ignorant of the truth. May they soon wake up to the mind trap they are all in and escape from the clutches of DM and the COS.
  7. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    As a member of public for about 17 years I've had many staff and sea org recruitment interviews and yes, they can tell you that the whole future of the planet depends on you joining staff/sea org. They also can become abusive. In my org I was the highest tech trained person, highest admin trained, highest on the processing side of the Bridge and had the highest IAS status yet recruiters often called me a dilettante, "a complete asshole" or "a failure as a being".

    My motivation for being in scientology was to get up the Bridge and I knew joining staff or the sea org wouldn't allow me to do that so I always refused. If that hadn't been my motivation then I would quite happily have punched the lights out of most of those recruiters but I had to stay calm so I could get up the Bridge. I wish I'd known then that it was a bridge to nowhere.
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  8. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well at least you were able to create your own Mobius porch of eternity as a uhmmm ....consolation? Scientology: making the already able more able through providing the practice of getting out of Scientology.

    Scientology: a bridge of whole and hole filled deceptions. Corollary: KSW = Keeping deceptionS Working.
  9. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Abuse works. Just look at Stockholming. There is something in the human condition that makes us respond to abuse in very strange ways. Maybe it has something to do with our evolution as a group oriented species. You want somebody to buy something, try the nice approach, if that doesn't work just tell them they are an asshole and I double dog dare ya. OK, it might not work most of the time but sometimes it will so hoist it up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes it. A given percentage will. A recruit who responds to this is half Sea Org member already.

    Edit: Like a lot of Scientology stuff there may be an immediate result that seems to support it's application but after a while people resent what was done because it essentially relied upon some kind of manipulation or ulterior motive that is not in the person's best interests. This is an integral part of the process of leaving staff and Scientology altogether. Decompressing after leaving the SO involves a lot of reflection over the contradictions between what was presented and what was actually done and I consider these realizations to have value - if one is struggling to find a silver lining. We lived in an actual dystopian society verses an abstract book or movie learned version.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  10. hummingbird

    hummingbird Patron with Honors

    This excerpt from @TheOriginalBigBlue post really resonated with me. IMHO, it deserved a second posting.

    Well said!!
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  11. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Patron with Honors

    There's a mention in my book about the illusion of control by proxy where a person will turn over their control just when they assume that the other person knows more than them. But turn it up to 10 when you're sitting in front of a recruiter that's been in the Sea Org for many years, eh?

    I too have been trapped in room for about three hours once. Never again. Not at Flag, but at ABLE. All the top execs, Three of them sitting with the recruiter, one on the desk in my face telling me that the people I have helped so far were nothing. I should be helping thousands. How she knew all about my private life, I have no idea, but she tried to break me down, and did, but not enough for me to sign the paper. I was already on staff and said I wouldn't abandon my post -- ha ha. I also took PCP! They said they could get by that one on the meter, because many people that think their pot was laced with it, discover it wasn't. (Uhmm, pretty sure I'd know pot from definitely NOT pot).

    Also, I used the whole, I'm an artist, so my purpose doesn't align thing. They made me feel like shit for that too. They had me crying like a baby, and mostly because I knew I'd walk out of there without joining. I would never. I had too many friends in and saw what was happening. I practically lived on the streets myself some years before, and when I met kids younger than me around PAC and AOLA who had no supervision, no one that cared...I identified with that. I felt they had it worse than me because their parents were supposed to be self-aware. I came from shit, so it was expected that I would be neglected. These kids did not know they were being neglected. For that, I secretly resented the Sea Org and was always afraid they'd find that out.
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  12. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I know you get this but for the benefit of our readers, Sea Org recruiters consider that people are basically operating off of their reactive mind. For Sea Org members this still holds true for public Scientologists or non-SO staff who have done a lot of auditing or training, by virtue of their not being as dedicated and making as great a sacrifice as they are. That may not make sense if the prospect is Clear or OT but then this is Scientology. The reactive mind has it's own sense of survival, you see, and on an instinctive level it knows that LRH and Scientology are out to destroy it so it exerts influence over the thetan to resist Scientology's goals and auditing and especially joining the SO. The prospect is oblivious to this undue subconscious influence and even though you describe the mechanism to them they can't comprehend it on an analytical level even as it is happening. There is a principle that the PC (Pre-clear) plus Auditor are greater than the Bank (Reactive Mind). Recruiters think like this also. They are attempting to help the prospect overcome their bank for their own good. They are not trying to overwhelm the prospect by ganging up on them alone in a closed room...just their bank.
  13. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Right, so once they join the Sea Org it's assumed that they've gone beyond / dropped the bank, are OT by virtue of being there and thus don't need any further processing?

    I know that really this is nuts and I shouldn't be bother to try and make sense of it
    (within the Scientology mindset) but it's late at night here :)
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  14. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    What has struck me recently too is that it's remarkable how well put together the whole scam is once you accept its key premises of the reactive mind etc.; there aren't too many loose ends or open seams that are vulnerable to casual inspection and would, if examined closely, cause the whole thing to unravel. Fiendishly cunning in fact.
  15. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think it's a Flag Order where LRH essentially says that Sea Org members are OT by virtue of being in the Sea Org. It might be in the "Intro to the Sea Org" tapes. This is consistent with the "No case on post" decree. Unless you have absolutely no reactive mind then it really isn't possible to not have a case on post or anywhere else, is it? If we could just turn it off then why do we need Dianetics or Scientology? The corollary is that if you are not a Sea Org member then you probably still have a case and because you haven't joined the Sea Org it's because you are out ethics, off purpose, a lousy PC or got bad auditing and so your Clear and OT certs can't be trusted.

    This falls under the "Make it go right", "No reasonableness", "Follow Command Intention", "Pure Postulate", "Tone 40 Intention", "Don't go into agreement with..." cultural mindset.

    You get the idea...

    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  16. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Good answer Blue.

    There's a phenomenon in the Tech called "key out," where although you still have a case it doesn't affect you at that point. I suppose this is what LRH was suggesting would happen when people joined the Sea Org - they'd be in such a "theta environment" that their bank would no longer affect them.

    On the face of it, it's not all that different from what the Catholic Church tells its missionaries; if they go overseas and work to help the poor they'll be happy because they'll be "doing the Lord's work" and will have found their true purpose in life. The difference of course is that the purposes the Church works for overseas, including the relief of poverty and illness, are genuine (whatever you might think of Catholic doctrine, their refusal to allow contraception etc.), whereas the Scientologists' goal of clearing the planet is a chimera.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  17. hummingbird

    hummingbird Patron with Honors

    Yeah, @Cat's Squirrel, "on the face of it" is the key phrase in your comment. I read recently, that the feeling that humans get when they help other humans (for reals, not the $cn crap) is called elevation (Elevation emotion). So, what missionaries experience is the real deal. Compare and contrast to sucking money out of people, keeping them away from their families, and being screamed at the whole time to "be OT!!"

    Sometimes I would ponder the conundrum of "If I can just *be* OT, then what do I need processing for?" but I'd shut those thoughts down real quick.
  18. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Here's an interesting difference between Scn and many other religions: In Christianity, using your time and resources to help others is a freely-chosen good deed, and people who do so are considered Good People.

    In Scn, you deemed to have a DUTY to help spread Scientology, and refusal to do so when it is demanded of you, makes you a Bad Person. Your time, your life, your goals -- in Scn, these are the property of the Group, not yourself, and refusal is treated as theft from the Group, something to be punished.

    In that respect, Scientology bears a strong resemblance to Communism, an ideology which Hubbard spoke against, and then promptly implemented for his own benefit in the Sea Org.
  19. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Actually, there is a very practical reason for blowing this kind of sunshine up a Sea Org member's rear gear. If you don't have case and you are OT already then you don't really need auditing, do you? And if you demand it then you are off purpose, putting yourself ahead of the group, utilizing income producing resources that are better applied elsewhere and dragging everyone else down.

    Recruits are told they will be trained as auditors and get the Bridge as part of the deal but there is very little motivation for the organization to provide these services and to use cash cow personnel to enhance staff when it can be given to paying public. The priority for Sea Org crew is to indoctrinate them in Management Tech and internal Sea Org policy so they can ride herd over each other and which incidentally tells them expecting auditing is wrong while telling them it is the most important thing in the world.

    Then you pile on the guilt tripping that you don't deserve auditing unless your stats are up 3 weeks in a row and your ethics folder is just right, not too thick or too thin, and even if you meet all their expectations then your whole org needs to be upstat too.

    Oops, here comes another Hill 10 and another all nighter, maybe 3, can't be sessionable...
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