Chris Shelton vid on The Truth Rundown - Leah Remini and Scientology Mind Control

[Enthetan]

Calling something 'evaluation' or 'invalidation' is a thought-stopper. It ends all rational thought or discussion of a subject so a person has a built-in excuse not to reconsider their experiences in another framework or against others' experiences or in the larger whole. I do not accept that these Hubbardisms, these thought-stoppers have anything at all to do with forum rules or discussion.

Yes, all rational people evaluate.

What is evaluation? It is thinking about data and deciding for yourself what it means.

What is invalidation? It is telling somebody that your analysis of the data is different from his.

As you note, what Hubbard tried to eliminate, was the heinous offense of people actually THINKING FOR THEMSELVES, instead of accepting what Hubbard told them.

 

[Lone Star]

Medieval Christianity is what you get when religion is used as the basis for the legitimacy of the State. In the Middle Ages, the King was confirmed by the Pope (you may notice in the movies that when a king is crowned, it's the bishop who puts the crown on his head). A king who was excommunicated by the Pope (like England's Henry VIII) loses his right to rule over Catholics, unless (like Henry VIII) he also splits his country away from Catholicism.

Since political legitimacy came from religion, anything which undermined the religion also undermined the rulers. This meant that they would deal savagely with heretics.

In Islam, you still have the legitimacy of the ruler being dependent upon his being a good Muslim. (There are exceptions, like Turkey, where they embraced secularism in politics, but the current president of Turkey is working hard to undermine this). Thus, you get in countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Pakistan, places where political legitimacy rests on religion, people getting executed for blasphemy.

.....and Hubbard's ultimate goal was for a Scientology State where his tech, admin, and policies were the government of the world.



But that won't be happening. LOL...

 

[Lone Star]

The Inquisition was not the Sacrament of Confession.

Confession is for the purpose of unburdening yourself of sin, and seeking reconciliation with God.

The Spanish Inquisition was run by the king and queen of Spain, not by the pope. It's purpose was to uncover traitors (as such, it bears a resemblance to sec-checking, which also has the purpose of uncovering anything which might be considered treason to Scientology).

What happened in Spain in 1478, was that they had just defeated the Muslims who had controlled Spain for hundreds of years. Those who converted to Catholicism were allowed to remain. But, still being in a state of war with Islam, they had to be sure that they didn't have people in their midst who would betray them to the Muslims if the Muslims started a counter-offensive. So it was more a war-time security measure. It got corrupted, as these things often do, and was used to seize the property of those accused, rather than for the original purpose.

Yes the Spanish Inquisition was run by the King of Spain, but the Vatican did have an Office of the Inquisition and its purpose was to seek out, dissuade, and if necessary destroy those practicing heresy. They went after such groups as the Cathars, Waldensians, and the Bogomils who had differing practices than that of the Roman Church. And mostly they questioned the authority of the Pope which was a big no-no.

 

[Churchill]

Historically speaking anyone not towing the Catholic line were seen as heretics spreading heresy resulting in a kangaroo court since being guilty was a given with a forced confession of "sins." Galileo and Copernicus both had run ins with Catholicism due to the science of heliocentrism. Then there's the people burned at the stake not to mention the Inquisitions. The various denominations of Christianity decimating the American Indians is another example and of course there's the Crusades. Catholicism, confession and Christianity in general have a bloody history. Islam is even more violent.

Using Catholicism as an example of morality and spirituality compared to the sociopathic $cientology cult is like comparing apples and apples. My apologies if I've offended any Christians. I respect your ideals and beliefs but sometimes not what is presumptuously done in the name of "god."

What you write is factually historically correct, but by foolishly omitting the fact that that the events to which you refer happened more than 500 years ago, I think your entire argument falls apart.

Scientology's human rights abuses, and criminality are ongoing. Today.

I get that you're not a big fan of Catholicism, but do you seriously mean to suggest that the millions upon millions of people who were religiously inspired and uplifted by Pope Francis to perform acts of charity and kindness, to comfort the sick and aid the poor...should we all discount that goodness and those acts?

I simply cannot find it within my own cynical and ossified heart to blame Pope Francis or Catholics today for the sins of the past. So, yes; I stand by my statement that Catholicism is a fine example of the goodness that is derived from the belief in a just and loving and forgiving Deity.

 

[Churchill]

The Inquisition was not the Sacrament of Confession.

Confession is for the purpose of unburdening yourself of sin, and seeking reconciliation with God.

The Spanish Inquisition was run by the king and queen of Spain, not by the pope. It's purpose was to uncover traitors (as such, it bears a resemblance to sec-checking, which also has the purpose of uncovering anything which might be considered treason to Scientology).

What happened in Spain in 1478, was that they had just defeated the Muslims who had controlled Spain for hundreds of years. Those who converted to Catholicism were allowed to remain. But, still being in a state of war with Islam, they had to be sure that they didn't have people in their midst who would betray them to the Muslims if the Muslims started a counter-offensive. So it was more a war-time security measure. It got corrupted, as these things often do, and was used to seize the property of those accused, rather than for the original purpose.

Wasn't Father Tomas Torquemada the prime mover behind the Spanish expulsion of the Jews in 1492?

 

[Enthetan]

Historically speaking anyone not towing the Catholic line were seen as heretics spreading heresy resulting in a kangaroo court since being guilty was a given with a forced confession of "sins." Galileo and Copernicus both had run ins with Catholicism due to the science of heliocentrism. Then there's the people burned at the stake not to mention the Inquisitions. The various denominations of Christianity decimating the American Indians is another example and of course there's the Crusades. Catholicism, confession and Christianity in general have a bloody history. Islam is even more violent.

Using Catholicism as an example of morality and spirituality compared to the sociopathic $cientology cult is like comparing apples and apples. My apologies if I've offended any Christians. I respect your ideals and beliefs but sometimes not what is presumptuously done in the name of "god."

Religion does not overturn human nature. At most, it pushes it in one direction or another.

Compare and contrast Catholic Italy with pagan Rome.

When pagan Rome defeated Carthage, they killed just about every man, woman, and child. Some of the prettier women were spared, and distributed as sex slaves around the empire. When the Sparticus slave revolt was crushed, they crucified a slave at every mile marker from the south of Italy all the way up to Rome. Other examples abound. So when evaluating Christianity's impact, it's important to compare it with what it replaced. The Inquisition was nowhere near as bloody as what would have happened if pagan Rome was still in charge, and the ruling class felt threatened. While nowhere near perfect, Christianity acted to restrain the level of savagery which might otherwise have been seen.

Now, also compare and contrast the Catholic Inquisition to aggressively atheist Communist regimes in the old USSR, China, and southeast Asia. Among them, it's estimated that 100 million people were murdered BY THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTS. Compare the Inquisition to what Communists did to "heretics" and those whose speech might threaten the regime. Again, the non-Christians are much more savage. Christianity had acted as a restraint upon what the level of savagery might have been.

Meanwhile, Islam works in the other direction. It MANDATES killing all those who oppose Islam. It MANDATES spreading Islam by the sword.

 

[Enthetan]

Wasn't Father Tomas Torquemada the prime mover behind the Spanish expulsion of the Jews in 1492?

I don't know if he did so under orders of the pope.

In any event, the status of the Jews in Spain was a bit complicated. They had prospered under prior Muslim rule, and were in a worse position with the Muslims expelled. There was thus concern by the new Christian rulers that Jews had an incentive to want the Muslims to return, and might be a core of betrayal.

Politics in those days was a complex and deadly subject, and things went badly if somebody could make a plausible case for questioning your loyalty. The US treated Japanese-Americans on the west coast during WW2 badly too (but not as badly as the Jews in Spain) for similar reasons.

 

[Terril park]

let's get "evaluation" straight, from the tech dictionary, definition 1 - telling the pc what to think about his case. (HCOB 4 Aug 60)

first of all one has to be convinced one has a case. I guess you are still convinced of this.

Hey, JustSheila is not auditing you, she's pointing out your misconceptions.

But, as far as evaluation is concerned, didn't hubbard evaluate for you by saying you had a "case", and didn't he evaluate for you by saying you are not "clear" until you do his technology of clearing the mind of engrams, secondaries and locks. Is this not evaluation, or what to think? Is not the whole Bridge to Total Freedom a evaluation, telling the pc what to think?

A OT8 is supposed to have whole track recall. LOL

Try the usual def of evaluation.

"C1 to ​judge or ​calculate the ​quality, ​importance, ​amount, or ​value of something:
It's ​impossible to evaluate these ​results without ​knowing more about the ​research ​methods ​employed.
[+ question word] We shall need to evaluate how the new ​material ​stands up to ​wear and ​tear.

Sheila wasn't particularly telling me what to think of my case, though perhaps
saying I'm brainwashed and blind goes there. As I said her evaluation is incorrect.

 

[Type4_PTS]

"...the bottom line is that Scientology as a practice and as an organization needs to be wiped off the face of the planet and the people who are enslaved to its cause need to be made aware that they are working for madman who is not what he says he is."

Thank-you for making that very good (and disturbing) video Chris.

I was in the Sea Org only for a year and while I managed to make an appearance on the RPF it was before the Truth Rundown was widely used. (Thank Xenu!)

Beginning in June of 2009 I did go through the Saint Pete Times version of the Truth Rundown and can honestly say I had life changing wins from it and would love for others to have those wins as well.

The best part? It's free!
http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/part1.shtml

 

[Terril park]

The best analogy for sec checks are "interrogations" and "inquisitions" more so than "confessionals". I believe that confession, real confession not induced or forced, is good for the soul and is something that does truly help people undo damage they have done to others. There is relief to be gained from it, as well as from taking responsibility for your actions by fronting up to what you did if you harmed someone else. The fact that Scientology has made a kind of science out of twisting that for their own perverse money-making purposes into a kind of personal torture and subjugation of your rights is completely disgusting. It's shows where Hubbard's (and Miscavige's) hearts really lie and what it is that they really want from people.

" interrogations"

in·ter·ro·gate (ĭn-tĕr′ə-gāt′)

tr.v. in·ter·ro·gat·ed, in·ter·ro·gat·ing, in·ter·ro·gates

1. To examine by questioning formally or officially. See Synonyms at ask.


› to ​ask someone a lot of ​questions for a ​long ​time in ​order to get ​information, sometimes using ​threats or ​violence:
Thousands of ​dissidents have been interrogated or ​imprisoned in ​recent ​weeks.

"inquisitions"

noun
1.
an official investigation, especially one of a political or religious nature, characterized by lack of regard for individual rights, prejudice on the part of the examiners, and recklessly cruel punishments.
2.
any harsh, difficult, or prolonged questioning.


Yes inquisition or interrogation is more appropriate for most CO$ "confessionals".
The example I gave was one I initiated myself. This was also before sessions were
taped.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

I just wanted to jump in for a second on the conversation here as I found that I had been, to this day, operating on some lingering false data from the cult about Catholic confession. In Scientology, they train you to relate the Scn "confessionals" to Catholic confessionals directly. There is a tech film about auditing where they show an old Catholic priest blessing someone who is confessing and say that this is a direct evolution to a modern day auditor and the Scn auditing sessions. This idea stuck with me all this time and, not knowing anything about Catholic confessionals until I talked to a Catholic friend of mine today. She helped clear up the actual concepts of what happens in Catholic confessions, how they are handled and the fact that Catholics don't even have to go to confessionals if they don't want.

I made the comparison in this video about Catholic confessionals, saying that sec checks were the Scn version of Catholic confessionals. That was a bum analogy and I can see I shouldn't have put it that way now. I've been learning a lot over the past two years, working my ass off to unlearn all the Hubbardisms and bullshit that is spewed at us. So while I'm going as fast as I can, there's still a lot of catching up to do.

The best analogy for sec checks are "interrogations" and "inquisitions" more so than "confessionals". I believe that confession, real confession not induced or forced, is good for the soul and is something that does truly help people undo damage they have done to others. There is relief to be gained from it, as well as from taking responsibility for your actions by fronting up to what you did if you harmed someone else. The fact that Scientology has made a kind of science out of twisting that for their own perverse money-making purposes into a kind of personal torture and subjugation of your rights is completely disgusting. It's shows where Hubbard's (and Miscavige's) hearts really lie and what it is that they really want from people.

I am willing to acknowledge that not every sec check in Scientology was done for that purpose and not every overt gotten off in a session was done just to torture or enslave people. I experienced true relief and help in auditing and I'm grateful for that experience. I also had 1,000 hours of FPRD on the RPF and most of it was pure torture and not something I would wish on my worst enemy. Well, I might wish it on Miscavige.

So there's a mixed bag of good and bad there depending on who was doing what when. But the bottom line is that Scientology as a practice and as an organization needs to be wiped off the face of the planet and the people who are enslaved to its cause need to be made aware that they are working for madman who is not what he says he is. And that's a truth I have learned the hard way which I won't ever forget.

Hi Chris first off let me say I thought your video was overall very good and I did'nt mean to
site your example exclusively, I had heard this comparison by many others both in and out
of Scio.

The idea "confession is good for the soul" is an old popular one and as you say unburdening
of transgressions allows the person some relief and if not ordered to do it.

As for a victim of a transgression it does nothing unless its made a matter of public record
say like in case where someone comes forward clears a wrongly accused person.

Hubbard was completley and utterly ignorant of what a soul is, to the point of redefining
it to mean "the person themselves" persona is only 1/7th of a soul, but within Hubbards
own mind "ego" "persona" was everything, so the bigger his fathead got the more use
of planetary and universe's and galaxy speak came out of his piehole.

Expanding and and expanding and expanding somethings gonna blow !!

here's nice confessional

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfggccwQrcY

 

[Anonycat]

Yes, all rational people evaluate.

What is evaluation? It is thinking about data and deciding for yourself what it means.

What is invalidation? It is telling somebody that your analysis of the data is different from his.

As you note, what Hubbard tried to eliminate, was the heinous offense of people actually THINKING FOR THEMSELVES, instead of accepting what Hubbard told them.

I evaluate my lunch every day. Everyone evaluates everything, always. It's natural, and a good thing.

 

[Anonycat]

Try the usual def of evaluation.

"C1 to ​judge or ​calculate the ​quality, ​importance, ​amount, or ​value of something:
It's ​impossible to evaluate these ​results without ​knowing more about the ​research ​methods ​employed.
[+ question word] We shall need to evaluate how the new ​material ​stands up to ​wear and ​tear.

Sheila wasn't particularly telling me what to think of my case, though perhaps
saying I'm brainwashed and blind goes there. As I said her evaluation is incorrect.

By case, you mean suitcase? WTF are you talking about? Also, did you evaluate her question? Is that bad?

 

[Terril park]

Excessive sec checking? So there is a valid amount of interrogation of people's innermost feelings by an authoritarian organization?

Sec checking is a more valid phrase than confessional for most of what CO$
does in this area. There is no valid amount of interrogation by an authoritarian
organization in the area of religion.

You have docs on the Fisher study? A quick google dosn't turn it up.

 

[Terril park]

When Terill enters academia, I will eat a furball. Please tell us which University and if you're doing a Masters or Doctorate. Otherwise, you're just full of shit.

I was asked by Inform to give a talk on "COS and the FZ." This was at their 25th
anniversary conference held at the London School of Economics where inform
have their offices. It is one or the talks from that event they wish to publish.
I'm not studying for a degree.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9fJkVJD0yQ&feature=youtu.be&a



Chris, absolutely brilliant demystification of "The Truth Rundown"!

Here we have the "modern science of mental health" purposefully driving Scientologists into the clinically morbid depths of dissociation, delusion and psychotic disorders.

Dissociation: A psychological condition in which people feel disconnected from their sensory experience, sense of self or personal history.

In retrospect, of course the sociopaths Hubbard and Miscavige devised a diabolical method of solving the obvious and unavoidable problems that Scientologists crash into--to wit, that they eventually see with their own eyes the outrageous contradictions, hypocrisy, criminality and lies at the very core of Scientology.

I was long gone before the practice of "The Truth Rundown" officially became part of the secret Bridge to Total Freedom that no one was ever supposed to discover. Ironic, isn't it, that anyone exposing the nightmarish Orwellian brainwashing of the Truth R/D would then, themselves, be subjected to the Truth R/D until the psychological terrorism of that rundown made them "cognite" that it never happened. In other words, rather than "erase" the person's "case", Scientology (because the tech doesn't work) ultimately must resort to erasing the individual instead.

I am reminded of one of Hubbard's audio lectures in which he noted and joked about the practice of Gaslighting:

Excerpt from Wiki:

Gaslighting is a form of mental abuse in which information is twisted or spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity. Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.
...
Etymology.
The 1938 stage play Gas Light, known as Angel Street in the United States, and the film adaptations released in 1940 and 1944 motivated the origin of the term because of the systematic psychological manipulation used by the main character on a victim. The plot concerns a husband who attempts to convince his wife and others that she is insane by manipulating small elements of their environment, and subsequently, insisting that she is mistaken or remembering things incorrectly when she points out these changes
....
Clinical examples
Sociopaths frequently use gaslighting tactics. Sociopaths consistently transgress social mores, break laws, and exploit others, but typically, are also charming and convincing liars who consistently deny wrongdoing. Thus, some who have been victimized by sociopaths may doubt their perceptions.
...​

Scientology: It's not only worse than you think, it's worse than you can think.

 

[JustSheila]

This is evaluation. And incorrect. My reason for doing the FPRD was I was still
restraining myself, or another way of describing it lowering my confront. The FPRD
greatly improved that situation, which is why I asked for it.

Okay, Terril, I'm going to call you out on this one.

This is about the fourth or fifth time I personally know that you've been in a heated discussion about FPRD and its use to brainwash others. You frequently seek to deny, overshadow or mitigate the true testimonies of others who have experienced horrendous effects from this procedure, or those who have gone through the mind-control Gestappo-style re-indoctrination of the RPF prison program when this has been forced upon us for 1) wanting to leave or 2) disagreeing with scn policies, procedures, tek or management.

Your answers are the same when someone writes a true-life testimony of this: 'But here, look at my WINS!' or 'Others don't feel that way.' or you use thought-stoppers about it being 'eval' or 'inval'. You blew off several exes who had come to exscn and had mind-destroying experiences on the RPF and with FPRD. Shame on you for your lack of compassion and denial.

Oh yes, we wrote success stories on the RPF. Lots of them. Do you know what the alternative was if we didn't? Do you even care?

RPF's RPF. Sleeping in the sump room on a cold concrete floor with no blankets. Not allowed to speak with or write anyone but the RPF's RPF I/C or RPF MAA. 4-6 hours sleep per night. Hard labor. Scraps of scraps of scraps for meals. 10 min meal breaks. Running constantly, supervised even to use the toilet. Weeks and weeks and weeks of this, filthy and grubby, wearing the same clothes. Until one comes up with the 'right' answers on ethics conditions formulas (they don't accept honest answers, just scientolo-politically acceptable answers), then it's back to the regular RPF for more re-indoctrination, more sec checks, more FPRD. Oh lucky us.

Yes, lots and lots and LOTS of success stories! Must look like good Scientologists. Must show we are 'winning' at our punishments or we will never, ever be released to see our families, our children, again.

Yes, I know all about how the FPRD works.

You claim the FPRD made you get rid of your restraints. You say this as if it is a GOOD thing.

It is our social restraints and concepts of right and wrong that gives us compassion for those who are abused and makes us think twice about using or promoting something that would cause another harm or injury. It is our social restraints that keeps us from stealing, from cheating, from murder, from lying. It is our self-imposed social restraints that enable us to sacrifice for our children, that keep us from seeking constant immediate gratification and highs (like promoting scn on an ex site in the face of all the harm done and seeking out scns who have left recently to sell them services in the Freezone before they've gotten fully on their feet).

I am glad for my social restraints. I am glad to have the ability to evaluate and judge my own actions on my own without reliance on gimmicks or gurus to tell me their own spin on right from wrong or push a button to make me do things that benefit them while telling me how good it is for me. I am glad to have the burden of personal conscience and consider it a marvelous gift.

I am glad to be 100% an EXScientologist with my own personal conscience and not living my life to serve and promote Scn as you do and as I once did.

It's a shame you cannot re-evaluate your experiences rationally and analytically as Chris Shelton and others have done. It is a shame that you are unwilling to do so. But your constant promotion of scientology on this site is disgusting and something that I will always challenge you on.

 

[Anonycat]

I was asked by Inform to give a talk on "COS and the FZ." This was at their 25th
anniversary conference held at the London School of Economics where inform
have their offices. It is one or the talks from that event they wish to publish.
I'm not studying for a degree.

Oh, good. Tell them that the cult and the cult home version sucks cocks. Let us know how it went.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Okay, Terril, I'm going to call you out on this one.

This is about the fourth or fifth time I personally know that you've been in a heated discussion about FPRD and its use to brainwash others. You frequently seek to deny, overshadow or mitigate the true testimonies of others who have experienced horrendous effects from this procedure, or those who have gone through the mind-control Gestappo-style re-indoctrination of the RPF prison program when this has been forced upon us for 1) wanting to leave or 2) disagreeing with scn policies, procedures, tek or management.

Your answers are the same when someone writes a true-life testimony of this: 'But here, look at my WINS!'

....snipped for brevity....

EXPLANATION: True believing Scientologists have achieved the advanced state called:

Semper Victores


​

"Always Winning"

So what if the demented sociopath Hubbard terrorized 3 year olds by throwing them into a dark chain locker where they cried hysterically for days?

So what if the criminally insane Hubbard tried to frame an innocent writer for a 15 year federal prison sentence, drive them insane and have them committed to an asylum for the rest of their life--or to relentlessly plot their murder or "suicide"?

So what if Hubbard destroys families, bankrupts his loyal followers and relentlessly stalks & destroys former members and whistleblowers with felonious "fair game" black ops?

As long as the Scientologist gets their wins, where's the problem?

 

[lotus]

If you were not winning and having gains what would you share on those Friday night graduation
Can you imagine the suffering of not completing a mind manipulation procedure, not attesting, not FN\ing , lot of wins to share and not getting love bombed and applaused ?????

You would be miserable

:confused2: