Commodore's Messenger tells all

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Veda, Jun 6, 2019.

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  1. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I think you are missing the point. While Ron didn't want to have a personal paycheck on lets say a million dollar salary, which Mike Goldstein never paid Hubbard, for example.

    What you are not realizing is Hubbard controlled everything, that was his pay. He had to carefully control inurement. Just like DM and the lawyers who get handsomely paid.

    Hubbard created an empire of dianeticists and scientologists, people who believed him, a crowd. His rhetoric you have to understand to understand.

    Whether Hubbard got a big paycheck, he didn't care, it was the amount of people he controlled thru his writings and lectures, his rhetoric. But at the same time, Hubbard was big into expanding into areas of the mind, and he needed money to do this.

    Here's the rhetoric. If you go up the Bridge to Total Freedom, why your ability to make money increases. The rhethoric or persuasion, actually is the more money you make, why just keep going up the bridge, why it's money more money into his empire. He just wanted more money into reserves.
  2. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    you know Clay, in the beginning of the vid, Mike says the whole purpose was to clear the planet.

    Well, it's been many years and the planet ain't cleared. LOL

    How many people have you cleared? and has it had an impact?
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  3. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    The Goldstein video is misleading.

    Hubbard regularly received large amounts of cash. None of it was on the books.
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  4. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    A team of forensic accountants would have been kept very busy, trying to reconcile Treasury records of "services paid for" versus "income reported", particularly at Flag and the AOs.

    There's a reason LRH developed his own accounting system for orgs, rather than using standard accounting.
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  5. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Yes, I agree with you Clay. It's well known that, because of L. Ron Hubbard, there are now tens of thousands of Operating Thetans roaming the planet, doing good works to arrest the dwindling spiral. Each one of those Operating Thetans is stably exterior from the body with full perception, and has full whole-track recall, as promised by Ron. If Ron can deliver all that, then every word of criticism levelled against him is simply garbage used to smear the man, and it's a crock. Ron is man's greatest friend. He didn't lie about creating Operating Thetans (which he had been promising since the 50s). So when he said that "I never had a second wife", of course we should take it on trust that that is true.

    Those fucking SPs, trying to ruin our eternity, by besmirching the reputation of man's greatest friend.
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  6. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Dox Veda?

    None of the serious defectors have reported Hubbard pocketing church funds, a crime widely and variously reported and alleged.

    He didn't do it (except apparently in the early days) and he appears to have had enough it not to do so. He would have needed accomplices as bag men and they would surely have blown his cover as would others from whom such hankypanky could not be hidden. Most people who enter the church actually do subscribe to high ethical principles
  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    I don't "clear" people nor do I expect the planet ever to be cleared.

    Many things I have done have had quite large impacts.

    In fact...


    Many a slip twixt the cup and the lip so I'll either eat crow or strut my stuff on this very thread tomorrow
  8. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    I do not say nor do I believe every word criticism about hubbard is a crock


    However mountains of egregiously false garbage have been thrown at him; just huge black lies.

    The man did produce auditing and auditor training, both of them, in the hands of intelligent men and women of good will excellent and effective tools.

    He was also a philosopher whose influence on his times is exceptionally large.

    As to Sara...

    I suspect that wench was probably the best piece of ass he ever wrestled onto the sheets. But when their thing went all to hell and gone as this thing between the biped genders so often, so comically, so tragically does it was a technicolor production. The "scandal sheets" had a field day with it. Probably no one ever stung Ron so badly as Sara. Apparently their marriage was not legal and if Ron had been Catholic the RCC wou;d have been happy to grant an annulment.

    Does Sara have any great meaning to anyone examining Hubbard's ideas?

  9. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    I know where you're going with this and in the name of all that is holy and OT, PLEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN!

    I'll owe you a beer, a toke and a butt if it happens and will pay out in person within 1 year when I visit SF!!


    GO B'S~~~~~​
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  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    why is it misleading? He said he never saw big payouts to Hubbard's.

    He I guess never saw the large amounts of cash so he is not lying.
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    god, did any of you listen to the goldstein video, carefully.
  12. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    that's bullshit Clay, so what if he produced auditing and auditor training. Those have not helped anybody really, except a few diehards like you that think it is worthwhile.

    I mean the original people involved are all gone or against it. That says something.
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    here's another thing Clay, you never had face time with Hubbard, you have fall'in for his words.
  14. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Yes. Anyone examining his words wants to know, "is this guy a liar, or is he telling the truth, when he claims that, for a price, he can show me the way to OT?" I'd say "I never had a second wife" is a relevant piece of information in answering that question.
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  15. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    How about dox on the claimed state of OT? Just ONE PERSON who can exteriorise and tell me which playing card I am holding behind my back.

    "During the third session of L12, I exteriorised completely from the MEST Universe" -type success stories don't suffice, when you are asking people to pay half a million bucks and give two decades of their life in the pursuit of OT.

    Just as an aside: I think that the internet era helped free me from the CoS in more ways than those typically ascribed to it. In particular, it STILL comes as a shock to me that people will make up elaborate stories of an existential nature (I was abducted by aliens; I exteriorised from the MEST universe; blah blah) and tell them as though they are true. But the advent of the internet makes it very clear that that is indeed what many people do. I used to think that Walter Mitty was just a character from a book. It's difficult to fathom the fact that there are people who are actually like that. But, I have to face the fact, THERE ARE.

    No wonder we now live in an age where so many people are cynical and nihilistic. They have good reason to be, with so many liars about.
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  16. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Sorry TINOK but the headline:

    Hey! Hey! TRIPLE PLAY!!!

    World Series/Super Bowl/Stanley Cup

    Red Sox!



    is cancelled and I've got a roasted breast of crow sandwich with mayo and chopped onion on whole wheat sitting on my plate.

    I was very confident we had this one in the bag and we nearly did. The black and gold came out storming unleashing a barrage in the first period which usually results in a commanding position in a hockey game. St Louis had trouble clearing their zone and couldn't clear it for long. What was it? Seventeen,eighteen shots on goal and half a dozen great scoring opportunities but the rookie rascal came up big and our huckleberry netminder (Huck and Tuuk are both Finns) was found floating downstream on a raft. Four St Louis shots on goal and two get past him and both were shots he commonly blocks.

    Enough to gag a maggot innit Tinok?

    It wouldn't have been an unprecedented triple play. The Lions Tigers and Redwings turned the same trick in the Thirties and in the '69-'70 season the Mets Jets and Knicks did a triple for Gotham but it would have been Boston's thirteenth crown in twenty years. After the war New York won twelve crowns in twenty years, all baseball; Yankees ten and one each for the Dodgers and Giants. So far as I know no other town has racked up double digits over two decades.

    Except Boston...

    A double check of the record shows from the late fifties to the mid seventies the Celts were champs thirteen times and Bruins won a pair of Cups so we weren't at the gate of the "big record" I spoke yesterday.

    Boston must be a dreary town today, quiet as a mausoleum...

    And if the result was not the glory my mind and thetanic spirit would have had it the final is yet a reflection of my heart and soul; a heartbroken lover since that dreadful divorce no matter what I do I just can't beat the Blues...
  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron


    Steel mills have slag heaps. Hubbard surely did produce a pretty rank slag heap but I've pulled off a lot of pretty nifty tricks with the steel his magnum opus generated.
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    No Gibby, this is not so...

    Yes, right from the beginning DMSMH is a hot air balloon puffed and fluffed with egregious overblown self promoting rhetoric but it also contains many very solid ideas

    I never was impressed by the rhetoric. I found it abrasive even when I was a student and staff member and even more chafing it was imperative that one must be very careful what one says about the rhetoric

    It's not the words I've fallen for it's the meat:

    TR's 0-4!!! ; "The World Begins With TR0" is not mere rhetoric.

    The mechanics of S-C-S.

    The clear distinction between analytical thinking in terms of differences and similarities and "reactive" thinking in identities

    The obvious difference between being "keyed in" and being "keyed out" and the several effective tecniques for turning the latter into the former.

    And on and on even up into the challenging intangibles of what is termed "OT"

    If you or anyone else sees nothing of pertinence or value in Hubbard's work then so be it. If you want to challenge me over the benefit of the subject I'm I'll stand my ground and give respectful response even willing to accept correction when shown to be in error and if you just want to heckle me do it well and I'll laugh along with you.
  19. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron


    Unfortunately this world has never had any shortage of justification for cynicism or nihilism. It is appaling there should be so much in our current age of prosperity

    Well, in my family we've always made camp with the stoics...

    But your post does open with one hell of a good and very puzzling question.

    I myself have substantial experience with exteriorization and, apparently with communicatng and causing effects spiritually at a distance in ways which I have demonstrated but not PROVEN on this board. I gotta eat crow today but I've munched more turkey than crow over the years.

    And if what I believe to be true is true...

    then why has no one ever in one way or another manifested "OT" in provable by the principles of scientific rigor fashion?

    Very, very, very interesting question
  20. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Puh-leeeze Gibby...

    Auditing and auditor training have never helped anyone?

    Were that true dianetics would have disappeared in eighteen months.

    In a way it's tragic that they are so good that CoS can suck chancrous donkey dick and still be propped up them