Curious about the policy that you can't be on org staff once you were in the S.O.

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Dotey OT, Sep 19, 2018.

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  1. Dotey OT

    Dotey OT Patron

    I've always been curious how the policy started that once you were in the S.O., you couldn't be on org staff. I always thought there might be an interesting story or two behind that.
     
  2. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Conspiracy Analyst

    I never knew of that policy, I wonder if it came to be out of the concern that Sea Org members would leave and rejoin staff somewhere, preferring the hours of being either day or foundation staff rather than both simultaneously, or were day staff considered foundation? Too many moons ago and I'm forgetting details, maybe that's a good thing! I would imagine that seasoned class IV staff wished they could go back to a class IV schedule that allowed them to work a wog job on the side to make ends meet and pay for some services, no such option in the Sea Org.
     
  3. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    There is a policy that says that people who leave the SO are labeled degraded beings, and they can only return to the SO, if they decide they want to go back on staff.

    In reality, the flow never goes backwards. The SO rips off trained class V orgs staff never vice -versa.
     
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  4. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Wait, when someone has a pregnancy in the SO don't they foist them off as a trade to a non-SO org?

    After you do your A to E and pay off the freeloader debt can't they join non-SO staff?

    Not letting former SO work in a non-SO org doesn't seem to follow the Scientology laws of perpetual exploitation. Did I miss or forget something?
     
  5. phenomanon

    phenomanon Front door security.

    I missed something, Too, but I do know that what is written is often not what is done.
     
  6. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Wow, yeh, I remember that policy. It had an obvious name to it, like "Ex Sea Org Members" and was very short, maybe only about 4 or 5 paragaphs at most. It was an old policy, pre-'77, maybe around '68 or so. It was in that original rude and to the point L Ron bossy style of writing when he was in the mood to play fascist cult dictator.

    It didn't explain why exSO could never be on org staff, but I don't think it said they were DBs, either. I'm pretty sure he said they were out-ethics and in lower conditions. It may be the same one that assigns Ex-SO a condition of Doubt.
     
  7. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Allowing pregnant SO to transfer with their families to a Cl IV org was originally issued as an SO ED by Guillaume LeSevre and was his idea and policy. I think he meant well at the time and was trying to keep SO families together and give them a chance to work more reasonable hours and live in a less confining environment. I remember that ED, and I remember feeling a bit jealous at the time that SO members could do that. It seemed so much better than the SO. Has every copy of that ED been destroyed? It was less than a year later that DM issued his own, and his was much rougher than the original by Guillaume. From what I remember, Guillaume stated they were still Sea Org while working in the Cl IV org.

    I imagine Guillaume knew what DM had in mind and was trying to circumvent the harm and make things a bit easier for SO families. From reports from others who worked with him, Guillaume was a nice man.

    Of course, it didn't work out well at all. Some tried to get families to divorce or have abortions or all sorts of things instead of letting them transfer and some of those who did transfer had a hard time of it anyway. The whole attitude in the Sea Org toward marriage, families and children is toxic and evil. DM has never shown even the smallest amount of compassion or decency toward families. :(
     
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  8. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    That Doubt Condition thing rings a bell. Funny, I thought I had forgotten so much, then digging into this it was amazing what I remembered, now I'm happy to learn that I've forgotten something...EP.

    When I left the SO there was no going back, to the SO or any other org, so I guess I didn't think about it much - but now, in retrospect it probably saved a lot of families. Although I doubt that was LRH's intention. It would go more along the lines of having former SO in non-SO units would be bad because they had seen the belly of the beast and the only way non-SO orgs could function is if they didn't really know what was going on...that, and ex-SO without the threat of the RPF would just be pissants to handle.
     
  9. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Ha, yeh, I know exactly what you mean! I'm happy to find out how much I've forgotten, too! Wow, didn't remember the W/Cing methods. Whoopee! :woohoo: I remember the Doubt Condition thing because it was one of the last things the RPF D/MAA showed me, lol.:dontgo:

    The story behind that "No exSO on staff anywhere except SO" must be a real kicker, though. L Ron kicking some guy out and finding him later in an org, all happy and living a great life compared to the SO. Probably got real burned hearing about it, heh.:clapping:

    But yeh, I'll bet it saved a lot of families. Most SO families I knew that left started out doing it pretty hard on their own, since they had SP Declares so were cut off from Scientologist family and friends. I get the idea that when El Ron got mad at someone, he never wanted to hear from them again. Like the wife and child he completely denied. The F/L bills in the 70s used to be so outrageous, too, so very few people paid them off. I remember F/L bills for exSO that were close to $200,000 in the 70s. For people who were making $12/week and flat broke with nothing, it was just another way of making sure they never came back. The GO especially never came back as public until the late 70s when the F/L billing policies were changed. Like you said, they knew all the dirty stuff and what really went on, but the orgs and missions had to keep believing in L Ron the savior of mankind for the scam to keep working.
     
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  10. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    .


    The reason that S.O. members could not ever work at an ORG is simple.

    Because there would then be compelling incentives to blow, do conditions and then join a lower org, where your labor hours reduce by 50% and your pay would increase by 500%.

    Same exact post.

    Half the time.

    Five times the pay.

    And time off, regularly!

    That personal GI stat alone is worth blowing for, going from 10 dollars a week to $50! POWER!

    HELPFUL TIP: Nobody on staff on this planet is allowed to have power money stats, except the cult's dictator. Because all the money is his and his alone and you are lucky you are being thrown a few crumbs of currency to buy cigarettes and used, black-plastic "dress" shoes for 99 cents.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  11. screamer2

    screamer2 Occam's Ball Crusher

    HH, we could make a killing importing used plastic "dress shoes" from third world countries and selling them to the many hundreds of millions of $cientology staff members the world over. Let me whip up a quick CSW and let's get right on it.
     
  12. Dotey OT

    Dotey OT Patron

    I saw one of those S.O. folks back in the 90's that had a child and was headed for a CL-V org to be on staff. That did have to be weird. I later met a young russian man fairly newly in the S.O. that confided in me that he was really struggling with the no kids thing. I thought it interesting that he told me this. Now I see many of my friends kids going into or having been in the S.O. and all I can think of is how exploitative it really is.
     
  13. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The policy got re-printed at OCMB

    The official point of it was that resigned Sea Org could only return to the SO.

    Now, if you were offloaded rather than having resigned, the policy would not apply. So many people who wanted to route out got their paperwork as having been offloaded, with their out-qual being "wanting to leave".

    As far as pregnant SO being posted to "distant failing orgs", I'm thinking this might have been considered a long-term "garrison mission", rather than an offload or resignation, since they were allowed to come back once the kid was grown and eligible to join the SO himself.
     
  14. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    From deposition of Mary Tabayoyon, Date: APRIL 4, 1994


     
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  15. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor


    Blinkless dedication to "command intention" and zombie obedience to any "order" or utterance coming from the "command channel".

    That deposition is scary stuff.

    Any other questions on how ordinary people are turned into fanatics who are "saving the world" by murdering millions in gas chambers, flying commercial jets into office buildings or blowing up a children's school bus (and themselves) in order to satisfy some bloodthirsty religious mission?

    Is there any difference whatsoever between the sado-machochism of sacrificing one's sanity and life to an infallible AYATOLLAH's "scripture" or swearing billion year obedience and saluting an AYATOLLAH AYE-AYE-ATOLLAH mentally ill conman-commodore in a naval costume?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  16. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Thanks for Mary Tabayoyan's deposition, Enthetan. It is powerful and tragic. :( Reading her story and about the coerced abortion is what motivated me to come out into the open again and fight and expose Scientology.

    I found Guillaume LeSevre's original order. Caroline had posted it (thank you, Caroline):

    http://www.carolineletkeman.org/c/archives/7567
     
  17. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Conspiracy Analyst

    And this comes from a man who first warned us as to the characteristics of "the SP", that "2 1/2%" of the population, how the hell could he claim to have acquired that statistic?
    He told us over and over again how the SP talks in generalities with the intention of degrading his fellow man.
    Then he turns around and uses the same generalities to degrade by firmly planting innocent members who found the austere conditions of the sea org not for them, into the condition of being a degraded being.
    He needed to teach you to hate others, those SP's, so that later he could teach you to hate yourself when he branded you one.
    This couldn't help but stick in their craw leading them to having a greatly diminished opinion of themselves and the others like them who all chose to leave the socialist state of imperialistic Scientology and rejoin the free world right outside the gates.
    Hubbard proved he was a die hard SP if there ever was such a thing, over and over again.
     
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  18. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    It's so obvious that they created a loophole to get around the policy of not allowing former SO to work in non-SO orgs so they don't have to take care of children but still get to exploit the parents. This is the kind of "policy interpretation" that I find completely consistent from my experience. What is really shocking is that they still took the children in the Cadet Org as young as 6.

    I am reminded of Sparta where children were property of the state and placed in the wild and if they survived they went to live and train under the government at age 6-7.

    For uninsured, the cost of birth control pills runs around $20. - $50. per month. Until recently top SO pay was $50. per week, (we hear it is now $100.), however, pay is often reduced based on the respective org's budget and could feasibly be nothing or a few dollars. It is my understanding that the SO does not pay for birth control, (at least during this time), and from Mary Tabayoyan's deposition we read that SO members are expected to pay for their own abortions which would probably take at least 5 months full pay.

    We are tempted to try to understand the Sea Org within the context of Socialism or Communism since it is technically a commune or Capitalistic because of it's obsession with money and production but since there is very little redistribution I think the more apt model is the raw exploitation illustrated in The Grapes of Wrath.

    When I was in the SO I was very careful not to reveal the living and working conditions to friends, family, non-SO Scientologists and wogs. It was bad. I knew it was bad and anybody who understood how it was would know it was bad. This kind of cooperative self censoring and individual PR Area Control was one of the few successful actions that enabled the SO to exist. I find it absolutely predictable that they would twist themselves into a pretzel to get around the no SO in non-SO orgs policy only to undermine this one successful action by deliberately injecting the worst PR that the SO has to offer into non-SO orgs. It's no wonder they have to hire so many people on religious visas to find people who have that extra layer of ignorance about what really goes on.
     
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  19. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor



    By my calculations, Dr. Hubbard's scientific discovery that 2.5% of the population is "suppressive" is factually correct.

    Because approximately 97.5% of the people who try Scientology later "cognite" and blow. Those are the NSs, NOT suppressives.

    What is left behind are the 2.5% comprising Scientology's paying public and staff--all members of OSA (Operating Stragglers Association). They are remarkably similar to the Japanese soldiers who hid in the Philippine jungles for 3 full decades (1944-1974) before realizing they had lost the war and surrendering.

    But, you alarmingly ask yourself, how dare anyone make the claim that Scn Stragglers are SPs? Well, doesn't Dr. Hubbard state that SPs are "stuck on the track" fighting an "imaginary war" against their "enemies"? That describes Scientologists to a T (to an OT, actually, lol) They are fighting XENU's war from 75M years ago, they are fighting wholetrack wars against "psychs" and fighting evil bankers, mental health organizations, medical institutions, governments, tax agencies, reporters and countless other paranoid delusions.

    But wait, you scream, Scientologists don't have the "other characteristics" of an SP!!! They don't speak in generalities, right? Really? Hubbard and Scientologist CONTINUOUSLY speak in generalities about "psychs" and "mankind" and "homo sapiens" and "dilettantes" and "DBs" and everyone else for that matter.

    Still doesn't prove Scientologists are "dramatizing" anti-social characteristics, right? LOL They would never "attack the wrong target", right? LOL. That's ALL Scientologists do, is attack the wrong target in both their "case handling" sessions and social-betterment groups/fronts. (Helpful Tip: Wholetrack Psychs and Engrams and Gorilla Goal Implants and BTs are not a correct target, they don't even existl)

    Do we really need to go down the list? Isn't it obvious to any ex-Scientologist that Hubbard had virtually EVERY SINGLE ONE of the 1.1 character traits and behavior that he warned about in Science of Survival?

    Wasn't Hubbard the SP "criminal" that he wrote vast scriptural tomes about?

    Don't all Scientologists regard L. Ron Hubbard (and David Miscavige for that matter) as IDEAL BEINGS, that they devoutly emulate and hope/pray/postulate they can duplicate and become in their own lives?

    Hey, I didn't make up this whole "evil SP" insanity, Hubbard did. Just sayin', wouldn't someone have to have severely anti-social traits to remain in a criminal fraud cult their entire lives? Whether through sadism or masochism, when people REFUSE to see, learn or discover that Scientology is an avaricious hoax, they are being very destructive indeed. Wouldn't that qualify as being suppressive, if only to themselves?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  20. Dotey OT

    Dotey OT Patron

    Thanks for that deposition Enthetan, very sadly enlightening.

    I have to say that I could have had it a lot worse than I have had it, when I read stories like this. I realized the other day my participation in the cult caused me to cut short a marriage that may have been still intact to this day, and as a result of my own choices I elected to have no more children. Now that I look back, that's quite an impact on a persons life. I'm not saying I've been through anything like this, but...
     
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