DEATH. What's your personal notion?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by The Oracle, Dec 16, 2007.

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  1. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    It occurred to me at one point while involved with Scientology that some people may be taking it up due to their fear of death. I have found some people spending a lot of their time occupied with understanding death through Scientology. I've never been afraid to die, and long before I was introduced to Scientology I knew I would go on to other lives, even as a child I knew I would never "really die".

    The idea of in between lives became interesting to me when I was contacted by a close friend after he died. But this isn't a thread about in between lives.

    I am curious what the others on this board think about death and their take on it.

    One of the things that always takes me by surprise is how people take news of a death. It is always regarded as a tragedy, even when someone takes their own life because they simply want out.

    Often when people get sick or overwhelmed they just want to back out.

    Sometimes people just want to move on.

    But it is considered a sin to just "kick it". Death is a big "no no". Also used as a threat to control people.

    Do you think you'll move on to what if you don't believe you are spirit?

    Just curious about other peoples feelings on the matter.

    When I was contacted by my friend after he died, he was sufferring from sleep deprivation and severe cold.

    I thought I must be very mistaken about this and then Paul Adams found a reference and showed it to me about the temperature dropping way down for a thetan after he leaves the body. That was some real evidence for me. But I still don't really get it about a thermal drop like that.

    Exterior I myself found there was no color or sound. (eye lenses or ear drums for sound pressure).

    I keep thinking it would be neat to set something up, like a list of questions about death and in between lives, with someone who will agree to check in to a solo auditor for a session so we could assess a list and get more information.

    T.I.
     
  2. beyond_horizons

    beyond_horizons Patron Meritorious

    You know how it was when you had your experience before you got into scientology. During and after there was no longer any fear! I truely hope folks will remember this when the time comes.

    http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research21.html

    _____________________

    From the light we have come and to the light we all shall return.
    -- Josiane Antonette
    :yes:
     
  3. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    It depends....like most everything. There is death on your own terms and then death by being the effect of the environment. The former is joy in the final release, the latter can create hells in the future, depending upon the postulates made at the time. Basically, it is loss of havingness. If it was "other-determined" (ie: engramic) there is much confusion, unconciousness and overwhelm. We all have agreed in this society that death is "the end" of responsibilities and obligations. But I have had experiences where that is not so.

    Then there are those times you pledge your death to the greater good....a lovers pact to love forever, a kamikaze's pledge to Mt Fuji before leaving the home island...it is a coin we spend as we see fit, if we are free to do so. What we are willing to die for is a key reallly, to liberation from the eternal cycle of death and rebirth. Some lifetimes I spent just waiting to meet a lover again....others were spent in abject slavery for the overt of having enslaved others "as the biggest win". Death is really the basic ser fac it seems....


    your mileage may vary...
     
  4. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    I regard death as an unknown, because I don't recall ever having died. I have witnessed someone die, up close and personal, and I can say that I have no fear of death, but I have tremendous fear of dying. The pain, and the loss of control, perhaps of dignity, those things bother me. I didn't get into scientology with the idea that I would "become" immortal, or become aware of immortality. I got in with the intent to improve the quality of my life, and the lives of those around me. I was really young!

    I only think about death when other people bring it up, really. When I think of it, then, as now, I think it's the destruction of the vessel. I believe that the mind/spirit, without some sort of vessel, ceases to exist, much as a saved game in a computer can't be retreived if the computer becomes defunct. However, I do have hope of practical immortality through either nanotechnology (constant repair of all bodily systems) or through export to a virtual environment that is more stable than a body.

    I really enjoyed the arguments about this by Tipler in "The Physics of Immortality", and his arguments with David Deutsch on the subject I found fascinating.

    I will be very happy if when my body stops functioning, I am surprised to find that I have not, but that's not how I plan.
     
  5. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    Been there, done that

    Before I tripped up in the Scn trap, as a mid-to-late teen, I was developing my own spirituality/awareness based around fictional premises, but still my own having been built up from all over the place.

    I had read about Near Death Experiences, people who had evaded death by co-inkydink--the guy who missed the plane by minutes only to see it crash on the news, etc. So for a kid my age I was very widely read.

    At 17 I was admitted to hospital for urgent dental surgery because of a cock-up that had occurred in the dentist's chair. Having experienced a General Anaesthetic some years earlier and just how loooong it took to knock me out, I had virtually knocked myself out while waiting to go in theatre.

    Whether as a result of my own actions, or systemic shock, three times that night I had the choice to go I-know-not-where, or to stay. I still don't know why I stayed.

    Therefore, I have no fear of death, only how it occurs.

    I would prefer to die in my sleep like my grandfather did, not yelling and screaming like his passengers.
     
  6. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Have you ever noticed people will not decide when to die?

    "I am going to stick around until my 87th birthday".

    "I'm checking out next wednesday".

    "This is my last week end as Joe".

    You never hear this. People are really supposed to be the effect of it. When the grimm reaper choose you.

    Sometimes I wonder if making a decision will effect your life.

    If you have it in your mind you will live until you are 85, if that will have some effect really on your life.

    It's really not even about death.

    It's about deciding how long you are going to live instead of letting other things decide for you.

    T.I.
     
  7. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    Sorry to contradict you. An old friend of my father's always maintained that he was going to die on Christmas day--he never said for sure what age, just Christmas day.

    One year, on about 22nd Dec he got home from work, and said to the woman with whom he lived (I never knew what the relationship was), "This is it. I'm going to die."

    On Christmas day, that's exactly what he did.
     
  8. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Some men will do anything to avoid pitching in with the Christmas dishes.

    T.I.
     
  9. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, which to me sounds like a placebo effect. Not to minimize what you're saying, because I consider the placebo effect to be one of the most important parts of healing and health. What we think the outcome will be, our level of confidence, alters the feedback loop we have with other people in communication, and with the course of our lives. At every point, we are trying to make decisions consistent with "who we are". When we've done something that even we consider wrong, we say: "that wasn't me, that's not like me, I can't believe I did that", etc.

    You'd really have to be pretty sure you were coming back to voluntarily check out, I think, or be in such agony that awareness was intolerable.

    What I think is very interesting is that we have entered a positive feedback loop on understanding our bodies, and I have great confidence that many people who live until 2020 will then have the choice to live indefinitely, so long as you have the money for the procedures. And having a sex-change? Surgery? Why? When you can simply tweak some genes? Why suffer body death, except due to massive trauma?

    Even if I'm wrong, I think that if people changed their attitude about it, that lifespan would be longer, but it's developments like that in medicine that will "make it real" to people. They'll have something that they can agree with. After the mind is set? What the thinker thinks, the prover proves.
     
  10. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    What aging is, is the body recopies itself and the copies get worse and worse.
    (In elementary terms).
    It is probable a virus will be created that can effect that.

    What I don't understand is what some people will do as opposed to dying.
    Like, who would spend 20 years in prison when you could have a whole new grown up life by then if you just checked out?

    There are things worse than death.

    Really, what I mean to be talking about here is life.

    And how fear of death or unknown of death really is an issue that can effect a person's quality of life.

    T.I.
     
  11. tessa

    tessa Patron

    DEATH.what 's your personal notion?

    I have no fear even i was brought up in a country where death is heavily dramatized.At around 10 after a bit with other kids i forced myself to go to semetery in the night to prove that i was not afraid almost i pee myself from the scary stories i had heard.:nervous: Before scientology i experienced the spirit of my first cousin next to my head almost trying to get in my head or trying to get my attention and presented himself like i knew him years earlier.Also iwould think of him and his family at the time.I found later that he had passed away in his sleep.I mentally told him that he dropped his body to go and get another one and i think he did as he did not come around again. I have read (the Tibetan Book of the dead )or rather a version of it and i agree with a lot staff is written there. :yes: Personally i feel i will never die and i have try to analyze it and i came up that death like one totally seizes to exist in any form is a lie for that reason death is unreal to me.So i have being refusing the word death all along.Since i became aware of my disagreement i say when i will drop the body and i do 't plan anytime soon.tessa
     
  12. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I think that a lot of people claim to know stuff about this. But, scientifically speaking, NO ONE really knows about this. I remain agnostic on this subject. :)
     
  13. Pooks

    Pooks MERCHANT OF CHAOS


    I agree with you I am also an agnostic. I'm slowly becoming a
    one lifer. I tend to believe that I will live on, not
    in a new body, but I will live on through my son and through
    his children. There will always be a part of me in them.

    Patty
     
  14. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Growing up in India, the idea of sin was never connected to death. It is just karma.

    .
     
  15. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Why worry about death?

    It happens when it happens.

    .
     
  16. Kerry

    Kerry Patron with Honors

    I have no idea what happens or doesn't happen when we die. People say all kinds of things about it from various belief systems and from not provable reported NDEs. Some say they are scared, and others say they aren't.

    I've no idea what I'm going to think or feel if I know it's about to happen. In the meantime, I don't give it much thought except it's part of life, and I certainly miss those I've loved who have died before their time. Those whom I've loved who were old when they died I was sad to say goodbye, and also glad to celebrate their long life.

    But I haven't a clue what it all means. Young or old. Drawn out or quick.
     
  17. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Oh yeah? Try saying that when you've spent 30 years putting together the greatest CD collection in the universe! :)
     
  18. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Well, don't stop. Keep at it.

    Focus on quality of life. Live it.

    When body quits, it quits. That is inevitable.

    .
     
  19. beyond_horizons

    beyond_horizons Patron Meritorious

    Great advice!

    :)
     
  20. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    I don't think I'm worried about dying, although it's easy to say that when it doesn't seem inevitable or close. I certainly don't care if I'm remembered or not.

    However, I want to keep my books, CDs and DVDs. At the very least I want to retain a list of my inventory. So if any of you receive a PM with an attachment from me along with a secret password you'll know I believe that my time is short! :)