Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by FizzledReligion, Jan 13, 2017.
Just curious. . .
If Sci tech is actually awesome, why do you think that:
1. Since 1950, 99% of persons who tried Scientology blew?
2. Scientologists constantly lie about stats, Clear/OT powers, et al?
3. Scientologists attack, terrorize and fair game those who disagree/criticize with purportedly infallible leaders Hubbard or Miscavige?
It would seem that if any of Scientology's tech was working, they would have "erased" or (minimally) "keyed out" the 3 "reactive dramatizations" above.
Plus, $cn has been around since the 70s. That's right, over 40 years. How's that planetary clearing going, eh?
Hasn't Scn been around since the early 50s?
As far as your question, I have no idea, so I asked an OT VIII who graciously agreed to post an r-factor below:
I find it impossible for me to get a clear conceptual understanding of that.
How were you able to change your mind without first writing up your Doubt formula, getting upgraded, and then delivering an effective blow to the enemy of the group you had been pretending to be part of despite personal danger?
To my knowledge, nobody in recorded history has ever successfully changed their religion (or career choice, place of employment, automobiles or even moving away from their present neighborhood for that matter ) without first delivering effective blows to Scientology's enemies*.
* By way of example, I once wanted to move from New York to San Francisco. That could never have successfully happened unless I had first delivered an effective blow to the enemy (my neighbors living in Greenwich Village). In fact it took me several days to cover their homes in dead-agent graffiti, knock their garbage cans over, key their parked cars and set off enough car alarms to keep waking them up at all hours of the night. Naturally, my effective blow eventually shattered them and thus they were not able to prevent me from moving to California. I probably should mention (for the benefit of new Scientologists) that my win was huge and I wrote a success story about my floating TA when I cognited that I was pretending to be part of the group of ethical upstat Californians but actually covertly working to sabotage their goals by living in a big East Coast city. The move took me considerably longer than I expected (and expensive!) because I had to keep flying out to San Francisco countless time to get signatures on my Liability Formula because I had to get more than half of the 837,000 people that live there before I would be allowed to join the group and have permission to move there.
After [STRIKE]wasting[/STRIKE] investing all that valuable time, planning and resources into your move, I hope you got a big-ass certificate to hold above your head with pride, because there was no way to even begin to describe the incredible wins you achieved except that.
The things I've head him say regarding critical thought and religion in general do resonate with me.
It was a factor, but not a major factor. The major factor was when I realized there where no "clears" or "OT's" that Hubbard depicted in his writings.
Idk... To be honest I have been hearing Scientology is dead, dieing and shrinking for about as long as I have heard it's expanding.
My earliest involvement goes back to 1972. From my limited perspective my impression was that it was expanding in numbers up to around 1980 but from my position in the Sea Org it was becoming increasingly difficult to retain and replace staff. By 1981 I had begrudgingly decided that life in the SO was not sustainable, what I was seeing was endemic, caused by LRH and not a temporary phase, and eventually it lead to my routing out. I continued involvement in the field for many years but my experience there was similarly depressing. A few affluent public subsidizing the anemic trickle of new public who often didn't stay long.
I attribute this to the heavy ethics and price escalations that started around 1977/78, bad post FBI raid PR, conflicting policy and pillaging of the lower level orgs and missions of staff, public and revenues. If kept affordable, not hounded by regges and recruiters and left alone I think people enjoyed the new agey type group activity and didn't have such a big problem with the Tech, as it were. They could have milked this a lot longer.
I'm amazed they got this far but subsisting on a more fanatical wealthy elite doesn't equate to expansion to me. It reminds me of states where 20% of the tax payers pay 80% of the taxes. When the stock or real estate market crashes the capital gains tax dry up and the budget goes bust because there just isn't a large enough tax base from employee wages. In basic economic terms it constitutes a lack of diversification. Just the loss of a few whales can have a dramatic effect. If those whales are closely networked in business or socially and leave as a group due to mutual access to derogatory information and similar reasons then the impact can be devastating.
I think aside from posh empty buildings the other way the Church maintains an image of expansion is by keeping the numbers of Sea Org and other staff up through the use of less qualified people. In the old days staff could be very intelligent responsible people who had highly developed skills before they went on staff and even within Scientology their knowledge and experience base would be high. I could be wrong but my impression is that this has all been hollowed out and it could be crudely characterized now as a whole lot of hotel workers and security guards from Russia, Mexico and Taiwan.
You’re not wrong. The Scientolofy UFO cult is a rotten husk, ready to collapse. David Mismanage can’t prevent this.
In Australia there might be a handful of public and a handful of staff to usher around several busloads of duped Taiwanese sea ogres.
That's it exactly. I felt it was relatively affordable and felt more like a group effort. It was much like a gassroots movement that I felt part of. I came in just prior to Hubbard announcing his answer to inflation.
That answer was, as I recall it, that prices were being raised something like 10% every 6 months. I'm not sure if I have the numbers and time frames correct or not but that seems to be my memory. Now, he says the way to beat inflation was to pay for as many courses and auditing hours as you possibly can right now and that way you are not subject to any increases. Even as a teenager I questioned that in my head but knew better than to ask questions. It felt like a con job at the time and lo and behold it was.
I agree that had it been left alone it may have gained more acceptance and moved along rather nicely. But Hubbard had to mess with it and then miscavige had to put the finishing touches on it.
If it wasn't for all the abuses and all the money milked from members I would say we should thank the both of them but may they both burn in hell or at least roast up in the Van Allen belt.
If we examine fact, and not feelings, the cult of scientology used to show up in national polls in the U.S.
I used to follow the results, and screenshot them. When Project Chanology launched in 2008, the cult members were previously at 20,000. Then it dropped down to a small number that they don't place in its own category, and throw it into Other. While Pagans, Rasta, and many other small groups retained their status of having their own title, the cult of scientology dropped down into who-the-fuck-cares category, and grouped with the other cults and wackos who go to the Other category.
Yeah, prices. Back then you could buy a kilo of weed for $60. Now that's the cost of a fraction of an ounce. But, weed works and the babbling notes of a madman doesn't. It's a mater of demand. If scientology offered their mindfuck for free, they just might get a couple people in the door.
Desperation caused by trying to apply Hubbard's insane policy to be In a operating condition or state identified or assigned by a senior staff member whose brain is fueled by the Hubbard sauce. Or lose one's eternity.
Years ago the Church started exploring other areas in which to find members. Taiwan and Eastern Europe are the big areas now. So it is pulling in recruits from those areas.
But in the United States as far as its American membership it is shrinking.
It was probably a good idea for the Church to recruit Chinese and train them as registrars.
Then, after someone gives the reg their money, thirty minutes later they feel like giving them some more.
The Anabaptist Jacques
You piece of SP shit, you're the one that tried to kill Ron when he went exterior and took a trip to venus.
Those success stories tho! You really can't be held accountable for what happens to those people who are PTS to you.
I felt the same way about Dianetics. But soon I had discovered that it cannot cure the illnesses such as MS, paralysis, arthritis, high blood pressure and many others. You see, I was a Dianetics auditor for a while. The best way to see that Scientology is crap is do some auditing of your friends and relatives. That would make you realize that Hubbard was a liar.
I audited people on Dianetics, and helped with auditing demos. Some people, not educated in Dn/Scn in the least, would quickly run what appeared to be past lives. I have no idea if they did, or if they were delusional, but it seemed to be a relatively common phenomenon when auditing new people.
Also, I enjoyed the auditing I had myself.
My issues with with the organization and the way many people have been dreadfully betrayed are not related to the way the lower levels were being delivered in the early eighties. Which seemed good to me.