Dianetics Revisited.

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by guanoloco, Jan 26, 2016.

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  1. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    iThoughtful pluvo • 3 days ago

    I few years ago I decided to leave it all as-is for now because the various sites still get a lot of traffic and do seem to provide a useful step in the process of moving away from cult fears and the mind set.
     
  2. Jim Dandy

    Jim Dandy Patron with Honors

    I have found an actual Clear though. :bwahaha:
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  3. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    My post on Tony O blog, (nobody will read it or understand)

    https://tonyortega.org/2018/04/21/h...ps-meltdown-over-xemu-and-ot-3/#disqus_thread:

    "
    Gib • 17 minutes ago
    Thanks Hana!
    I think if we go earlier than the Sea Org, why we will understand Hubbard. I believe Hana and Jon And Russell Miller and a bunch others do not have this data to think with to understand Hubbard, other than yes he was crazy.
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/...
    I made some posts on this tread:
    "To answer your question, because I read the letters between Campbell and Heinlein.
    You too can do the same, it'll cost you 2 bucks.
    http://www.heinleinarchives...
    It's pretty simple to get the file of letters. It's copyrighted so I can't copy it, letter for letter here on ESMB.
    If you read the letters between the two, we can have a conversation.
    As far a ether or aether or akasha, yah, I gots my views on that and stolen actually the Emerald tablets, which is where Napoleon Hill got his ideas from.
    Hubbard just retermed Aether or ether to Theta. And then added a n to theta to make it thetan, or soul or spirit, same thing. You gotta figure, to become source, you have to reterm words, which makes it harder to actually view source. That's what cult leaders do, reterm.
    All this ether or aether, I am not saying is true, all I am saying is source of the words that hubbard believed as true."
    Here is the file to read the letters between Campbell and Heinlein:
    http://www.heinleinarchives...
    A snip from the tread on ESMB:
    "ok, I found the website. Scicritic has broken up the Dianetics in Astounding Science Fiction into 9 parts, here's part one:
    https://scicrit.wordpress.c...
    These letters between Heinlein and Campbell are the backdrop if you will for the release of Dianetics in Astounding. "
    Another snip from the tread:
    "Campbells letter Sept 15, 1949 - 8 pages long.
    "Dear Bob:-
    You haven't heard from me in some time, because I've been busy, and because the thing I most wanted to discuss was still incompletely digested, but I have enough of a hold on it to be able to give some coherent outline of it. It's Ron Hubbard's work, the new science of human thought which he calls dianetics- (Source: Greek for "thought").
    "Ron has been studying the human mind, in an informal, free lance way, since he started reading Freud, Jung and Adler at about 12 years old. He has, however, included in his calculations and considerations a study of Christian Science, Catholic Mircale-Shrines, voodoo practices, native witch doctor work, and the witch methods of European tradition as well as modern psychology's teachings."
    Campbell tells Bob the analogy of the human mind being a calculating machine and of unrealized capability.
    "Now we take off on Ron's work. Evidently the brain was eloved to serve a function---and the only function recognized by evolution is survival. The function of the brain is, then, to calculate solutions to life problems, and derive answers that promote survival. The one, overriding command that is built into human organisms is SURVIVE!"
    "that it must have four main drives.
    1. Personal security.
    2. Family security---sex, reproduction, etc.
    3. Group survival
    4. Race survival."
    "But he operating under "dark enchantments", as Ron once called them. And, by damn, that's precisely what they are? Technically, Ron calls them "impediaments"; they are the source of all aberrations in human thought and behaviour."
    "Certainly there is this. Ron can cure ulcers. He can cure asthma, arthritis, allergies, migrane headaches. He hasn't had time and opportunity to do all the research that is needed, but I firmly believe this techique can cure cancer. Any kind of cancer."
    "Now as to why it doesn't, and how to overcome the situation. We can start with General Semantics, which contains a large hunk of the basic truth, but fails because of a false axiom that has not been recognized. General Semantics holds, in brief, that sanity requires recognition of distinctions, differences, and enforced control over the thallamic-emotional reactions by the critical thoughtful processes. The famous cortico-thallamic pause. But it contains the hidden axiom "All psychologically important incidents occur during conscious awareness." The axiom is wrong; the correct axiom is that "All psychologically important incidents involve unconsciousness and pain."
    "To establish an impediment, two things are necessary---and only two things. 1. Unconsciouysness. 2. Physical pain. To make it a deep impediment that really sticks, a third may be added(as in our example) 3. Antagonism."
    Campbell goes on about everybody having a birth with pain and antagonism. Then he talks about his own birth with a cord wrapped around his neck and what happened.
    "Now. This stuff. I want to warn you most carefully is sheer essence of insanity. It is the root fiber of human thought. It is medicine so strong it will cure any form of insanity not rooted in organic lesions."
    "I have left out many details, and elided parts of thgis material; I have done so because it is too damned dangerous to toss around. I most solemnly assure you that, with the knowledge I now have, I could turn most ordinary people into homicidal maniacs within one hour."
    "I am now about 80% through with Ron's therapy; it has been slower than normal. because I am simultaneously being treated, and being trained as an operator. I have done some operating myself, and have watched Ron working on other cases."
    "Once you are cleared, Drive Three makes it impossible for you to act as a criminal---the good of the group takes precedence over your personal benefit."
    "This has been logish; I think you'll be interested. This is, I am certain, the greatest story in the world---far bigger than the atomic bomb, because this the story of controlling thought that controls atomic energy. It is a story that must be spread, though, and spread fast."
    Closing line by Campbell:
    "The problem today is very simple: Ron is the only fully-trained dianetics operator in the world, and even he doesn't know how to select and train new operators. He's practicing on me and a friend of mine. But damnit, Bob, right now the key to world sanity is in Ron Hubbard's head, and there isn't even an adequate written record!"
    -------------------------------------------------
    Now what is important in this last reply by Campbell?
    1. Re read Campbell reply to Robert Heinlein,
    "But damnit, Bob, right now the key to world sanity is in Ron Hubbard's head, and there isn't even an adequate written record!"
    There you go, Ron made it up from the beginning, or mocked-up it up. The "clear" cognition.
    Ron, the story teller. There was a written record, science, nope. Pure sophist rhetoric by Ron.


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  4. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I doubt if Hubbard studied Freud, Jung, or Adler in any serious way. He derived much of his understanding of these authors' works from conversations at gatherings of writers, etc.

    According to (erased 2nd wife) Sara Northrup, he was too erratic to sit down and read dry, lengthy, and complex works, but relied on feedback from others. For example he never seriously studied Korzybski's works, but relied on others, including Sara (she was a fan of Korzybski at the time) for information and explanations.

    The chapter, Origins of Dianetics, in the book Messiah or Madman? examines some key antecedents to the ideas and practices in Dianetics.
     
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  5. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Yeah, he sure was. Why did his attention on solving the ills of mankind lean toward withcraft and voodoo and whatever else Campbell said in the letter. Sounds like somebody was researchng methods for making a Manchurian candidates. I don't think it's coincidence that the Koreans were practicing brainwasing techniques, and POWs were used as guinea pigs during this time period. All this was already in the air.

    What is it that Ron thought happened when you were unconscious that made you more suseptible to being imprinted than when awake. Seems plenty of programming is done with folks fully awake, and they are suseptible too. That he lists 'antagonism' as one of the prerequisites for command-effective recordings in the unconcious is worth noting. I've become more of the opinion that we 'grow' a mind. It's birth is by efforts and counter-efforts....something to push against. Could be that nobody stays contnuously lucid thru consecutive lifetimes because its a 'new' form that's growing a 'new' mind. I got a sense of this watching the Book One training video. The brain is a growing organism too, and it's quality of plasticity is either good or bad, depending on environmental factors pressing upon it. Nothing new under the sun. Too bad the environment that Dianetics was delivered in became peculiarly devoid of necessary empathy for self and client. Consoling a person and acknowledging the depth of their emotions would turn out to be a less expensive therapy.

    "Neural plasticity is the capacity of living things to mold themselves to new conditions". So anything the brain can do, the mind can do. As above so below.





    This kind of thinking is being taught today in the criminal justice system when adjudicating youth criminal behaviour. The evolving/ devolving of the mind/brain thru environmental stimulators. Understanding transitional behaviors and how imminent threats to one's very survival activate and make predominant certain areas of the brain. Nothing new, but I'm on this chain of thought here where I think a mind is impermanent. It's miracle FABRIC is like a re-writable disc. Deep scratches gouged into the disc may change it's form. Buffing it out with abreaction therapy is old style therapy Hubbard was familiar with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  6. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Technique 88. He tired of running individual Dianetic incidents. Obliterate whole sections of time track at once, he says
    The lead in is funny.

     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  7. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    In case anyone may be thinking that Hubbard actually knew what he was talking about I think we should remember the "world's first Clear" John McMaster. Of course there was another "world's first Clear", Sonia Bianca, who couldn't remember what colour tie Hubbard was wearing, but obviously John McMaster must have been the real deal because Hubbard also appointed him the Pope of Scientology and Scientology's unofficial ambassador to the United Nations.

    Hubbard said in Dianetics:The Modern Science Of Mental Health that a Clear was a perfect being who could remember everything that had ever happened to him/her and never made a mistake. Well John McMaster was later forced by Hubbard to re-do all of his technical training, he was thrown overboard from the Apollo five times for alleged transgressions and in the 1980s when he was interviewed for the book Religion Inc he was living in a small seedy apartment surrounded by cigarette butts and drinking vodka and orange.

    So much for the state of Clear. And the Dianetics book is still being sold today with the same fraudulent claims in it.
     
  8. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    There are also the 270 clears that hubbard mentions in Dianetics.
     
  9. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    deleted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    none of these sites I have linked, can be reached? I just checked.

    this is not right.

    oh boy, I do not like the latest developments in the internet, or this new software on ESMB.
     
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I think you ought to examine the Heinlein/Campbell letters prior to Dianetics release. You are a master of knowledge on Hubbard, but you are missing this info since it is not available on the internet thru research, just little bits.

    I really wish you would read those letters. I have tried to get Chris Shelton, Chuck Beatty and Scicritic to read them, but no response. I mean I PM'd them and no reply. I even offered to pay the stupid 2 bucks to read them.

    Anyways, here are the personnel letters from Campbell and Heinlein:

    http://www.heinleinarchives.net/upload/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=893

    It will cost you a few bucks and you have to register, and then you will get the pdf of the letters thru email. It's safe.
     
  12. Chris Shelton

    Chris Shelton Patron with Honors

    I tried to logon to that link and got to the "payment" page and it wouldn't accept my credit card information. If you want to send me the PDF, that would probably be a lot easier than this nonsense. I'm happy to read these letters, but I can't get them.
     
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I don't understand, you simply register, yes you have to fill out the form and give email address and all that, then pay for the file, then it gets sent to you in pdf format via email. The letters are copyrighted. While I have made quotes from fair game usage I have not violated copyright.

    It was was easy for me to get one file, and then at another time another file.
     
  14. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    I had that happen to me also, but on a different purchase. On tracking it down I found out that the data I inputted into the order had one piece of information that was different that what I had with on my card issuer account. Think of it as a comparing two data records as a security action and if they don't match exactly then the order won't process.
     
  15. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    A document from McMaster was published today for the first time over at the Bunker. In an affidavit McMaster said:

    "There had previously been hundreds of people who had been clears but none of them had been acceptable to the public at large. I apparently was, and I think this is the reason I was called “the World’s first real clear.” I am convinced that I was the publicity gimmick for which Hubbard was looking. I accepted the title, but “clear” had no status for me…. In August Hubbard asked me to return to England which I did. In the Chapel at Saint Hill he publicly declared me to be the first Pope of Scientology. This I regarded as a singularly high-sounding title, but it had no other significance to me because up to that time I have never thought of Scientology as a religion."
    https://tonyortega.org/2018/06/06/e...-of-the-pope-of-scientology-in-his-own-words/
     
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  16. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    Just in the interest of accuracy, LRH doesn't claim there were 270 clears. For a long time I thought it said that too, but actually he says he worked 270 cases and all had been "cleared or alleviated." So he's saying some weren't cleared, only got better.

    "Before then 270 cases had been worked and 270 cases had reached prenatal engrams. And 270 cases had been cleared or alleviated [emphasis mine] as the dianeticist chose and time permitted. All could have been cleared with an additional average of 100 or so hours for each of the persons who were alleviated."

    https://ronsorg.ch/wp-content/uploads/Dianetics-The-Modern-Science-of-Mental-Health.pdf

    Quote starts near the bottom of page 110.

    Of course this doesn't change the fact that there really were no clears, based on the statements of those who were around at the time (J. A. Winter and Helen O'Brien, for example).
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 12:45 PM