Did getting a kr make you feel betrayed by your friends in scn?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by renegade, Jan 11, 2018.

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  1. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    Doing some research on betrayal after trust, and wondering if anyone else feels that writing krs on their friends and peers, is actually a betrayal of sorts.

    For me it felt like a knife in my heart when I'd get a kr from someone I spoke to in confidence, thinking they were my close friend and a "terminal." It ruined my level of trust and made it unsafe.

    Doesn't that hinder relationships from really getting close? How many feel that they couldn't really get intimate and bare their soul to their own partners?
  2. JackStraw

    JackStraw Silver Meritorious Patron


    With all Hubbard's talk against communism, I found this "report on your friends, parents, co-workers" et al rather soviet in nature.

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  3. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Re KR's ... The first time it happened I was a bit taken aback because I didn't know KR's existed until a particularly snotty one landed in my in basket about 2 days after I found myself in the SO, but I realised very fast that genuine loyalty (to each other) and friendship were impossible in that environment so I ceased thinking of any of them as potentially genuine friends and sadly that included my dearest friend who I had previously shared a house with, loved dearly and had gone to visit not realising exactly what she had gotten herself into ... the SO.

    She later blew left without telling me she was going and I was stuck there ... I'd have gone with her given half a chance! She couldn't have told me she was going though even if she had wanted to, she had been RPF'd by then and was forced to live as the only female in a shed and was hardly allowed to see her poor, distressed little boy, it was awful, I still don't know how she managed to escape (with her toddler) but it was a miracle that she did.

    I even remember what that first KR was for and who wrote it so it must have hit a nerve ... it was for "dev-t/presenting a body" ... I had had the audacity to walk a few feet physically into Treasury for something instead of "putting it in writing" ... I later worked out that if desperate* buying the stroppy KR writer a cake as I slithered into Treasury and gently waving it under his nose got me whatever I needed/wanted even though his juniors were watching (lol) ... but that cost me most (if not all) of my weekly wage (it was beans and rice days so I knew he'd fold fast if cake was involved).

    *My friend/boss was totally overwhelmed and stressed and kept forgetting to submit her finance requests in time and always sent me to try and slip them through prior to the financial planning meeting.


    Re partners ... I wouldn't have trusted my then husband not to KR me if I had been open about my true feelings (re the cult) even after we were off staff, it wasnt that he was actually a nasty person (I realise that now) but he was as indoctrinated as anyone there and possibly more so (and I imagine he still is).

    I believe that most relationships in the cult are screwed before they start.
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  4. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes, I think not knowing or fully trusting people can really hinder the closeness in relationships.

    I have seen some couples though, that wouldn't write up their spouse as long as they were getting along.
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  5. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Oooooh, that's a big no no ... the cult will catch them out eventually ... they even have a label for such dreadful behaviour ... mutual out rud's!

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  6. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    I now believe the purpose of Kr was exactly to build a loyalty toward the cult and destroy any sens of loyalty toward family, spouses and friends...knowing very soon the people are spying on you and that you must spy and report them..if you don't, it will be found in police polygraphed interrogatories (sec checks)

    I personnaly never reported friends in the cult (to my recall)...especially as I was often asked for help with ethics, problems out-ruds, out 2d acting as a chaplain and ethics specialist..so I always considered that any confidence was confidential and never disclosed anything told to me. It neither didn't disclose anything in any confessionnal..Phew!

    However the first time it happened to me was from someone who as apparently ''a friend'' and began to KR me..withouth any copy given to me. Actually this person was writing lies to cover his own lies and bullshit...

    The funny thing is how I discovered all that...:D

    There was such a backlog of KR's in ethics dept to be classified in folders, so they ask me to do the job ..
    I stumble on KRs about me...I was amazed at reading stuff that never happened (or unimportant factual stuff that was tunerd into a totally other story)
    My eyes couldn't believe what I was reading....
    Actually a SO executive put a note on them and it was written : ''get his missed witholds'' :D

    At that moment I understood this guy was a moron and bullshitter...
    and yes I felt betrayed like I would never believed a pseudo-friend would do that!
    So I took all the reports and wrote on them : ''Get his Missed witholds''
    and filed it in his ethics folders.
    I got a ckeck in mine and took anything written from him back into his ethics folder.
    I put his folder on the HES basket for handling to be done...
    My goeal was to make sure it would cost him lot of $$$$ and it did!
    ...and was very grateful for life giving me such opportunity to work out my own justice

    I immediately ceased any personnal communications with this moron.
    Later he would ask friend to intervene with me and arrange a meeting with him ..
    I told my friend to tell him to fuck off since I don't need such moron as friend.
    End of the story!

    Then, I became very selective of whom $cientologis I allowed in my private life and warned them that Spying and kr = out of my life
    I also never had any intercourse with any $cientologist since I didnt want my sexual life and behavior to be narrated in their sec checks or life history in SO retard spying and obsessive disorder about sexuality (flag...) .......

    I am very private :oops:

    I would never spy and report on people

    for free!
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  7. screamer2

    screamer2 Idiot Bastardson

    That is exactly what it was designed to do.
  8. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I knew a guy who was part of a group of us Scientologists roommates during the 70's who kept getting pesky KR's written on him by a guy who was being spurred on by his Sea Org girlfriend that had thrown herself at this guy, but turned vengeful like Hell hath no fury when her repeat come on's fell on deaf ears.
    So the KR's kept on from the two of them, she left this guy for another guy eventually, which was what she was attempting when my friend knew them.
    So "my friend" finally had enough and wrote a letter to Ron informing him of how the church had been taken over by sinister forces who's monthly price increases were further pushing the prices out of reach of most everyone and expressed the hope that he would address the situation or "wuz it true the emperor wears no trousers".
    Well, I can't prove it, but I think he used one of the knowledge report writers name on the sender line.
    Well, this shot up org lines right into the lap of, guess who?
    Ron his-elf!
    Well this created a stir of unimaginable proportions, in fact well out of imaginable proportions and a massive witch hunt ensued to find out who penned the letter using handwriting analysis and calling people in for sec checks!
    I never went in nor did "my friend" to the very best of my knowledge.
    Next thing I knew a "joker and degrader" policy came out!
    "Touche you fat rat bastard" "my friend" said feeling like he was one of the few who ever managed by using "letters to Ron" of all channels to give Hubbard a real good piece of "his" mind.
    I'll re post this over on the KR's thread.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  9. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  10. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    I once had a long conversation with the OES (Organization Executive Secretary) of my org about my wife. I was expressing concerns about various things and I was asking for help or advice.

    It was relevant to the OES because she was a staff member and she was currently mid auditing and I thought the OES would be able to help with the situations I was telling him about.

    I was an upstat member of public and also was doing auditing and c/sing as a volunteer to help the OES.

    Shortly after our conversation I was given a KR for "nattering" about my wife and I was told by the OES I needed to pay for the False Purpose Rundown Second Dynamic Form!

    Yes, that was betrayal.

    I had to pay for the auditing and go through with it even though I knew I didn't need it.

    Shortly after my auditing was completed a situation with my wife blew up big time and caused a major flap for Scientology in the UK. I had been right about my concerns that I had voiced to the OES but it was too late by then.

    Years later at AOSH UK it was indicated to me in session that my FPRD auditing had been a complete waste of time.
  11. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    As far as the Org was concerned, they had a low-rank person (non-celebrity public) reporting issues about a higher-rank person (a staff member). Can't have that. In Scientology, you can only KR, or attempt to "handle", a person of lower or equal rank. Mess with somebody of higher rank, and it's YOU who will be investigated for crimes. Which is what happened.

    This attitude is ingrained in Scientology. The "You don't have the RANK to be asking about ..." attitude about raising questions about higher-ranked people. It all flowed from Hubbard and Miscavige. If anybody got too comfortable about the idea of questioning the behavior of higher-ranked people, why, it could lead to being someone even thinking they could question THEIR behavior.
  12. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yep. When I eventually left scientology I wrote a 3-page KR on the OES on gross technical outnesses he'd committed just in the previous few weeks. I knew what I was talking about because I was more highly trained than he was.

    A few weeks later the HES came to see me. He said my KR had gone to the relevant people at AOSH UK and they only had one question - "Why did you write it?". That was the clincher for me. I was out.
  13. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    That used to happen in the org where krs were misused to attack another person. It's shitty because you couldn't get them removed even if it wasn't true or exaggerated/embellished to make you look worse.

    I thought the person who wrote krs on me and did not give a copy were sneaky cowards.
  14. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    Back stabbed, punished for communicating then "Oh, you were right all along!" is a recurring mantra of scn.
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  15. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Yeah, being told "you were right all along" AFTER you were screwed out of money, and WITHOUT any restitution. Talk is cheap, especially when it's just an effort to calm you down so they can con you some more.
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  16. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    That's just more betrayal. And they wonder "Why are we shrinking?"
  17. JackStraw

    JackStraw Silver Meritorious Patron

    I remember seeing a high ranking (in my scn world-missions & CLV orgs) ED, after everyone found out how he had thoroughly fucked someone over, piously say "I take full responsibility for this situation."

    Nothing done to make the person whole again, no restitution, no apology, just empty words and everyone is supposed to forgive, forget and carry on... So galling!

    I wasn't the victim of this but I sure hated this bit of behavior. And yet, we're supposed to respect this OTVIII/CLVIII C/S.
    Yeah, not so much.

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  18. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    Poor guy. Even though he was not compensated, "OTs" like that eventually are not well thought of even if no one says a word about it. Respect and admiration is earned.

    It seems those higher up the bridge with training, got away without getting krs. Or you might look like the bad guy if they were also an opinion leader.
  19. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    As with everything in the cult of con there was always a handy double standard lurking in the wings, available for use if and when required by a quick thinker ... for a price.

    On one hand we were meant to be perfect little robots, ethical to a fault, sticking to every rule KSW style, and therefore keeping our ethics files skinny but on the other hand it was made clear (to me anyway, by the HCO division head) that unless you were getting lots of "traffic" (KR's) being written on you ... you were almost certainly not pulling your weight in the planet saving dept and were a bit of a loser.


    A few years ago @HelluvaHoax! wrote a post on how every facet of scientology could be viewed from its various angles depending upon the circumstances and twisted to suit the circumstances ... it was hysterically funny and shocking at the same time.
  20. Out Ethics

    Out Ethics Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer

    The "KR" was used to control.


    It is manipulative and causes irreparable harm to relationships.

    It causes incredible and unbreakable loyalty to the cult.

    It proves to the cult that you are ALL IN - 100%.

    AND...that was the intention of L Ron Hubbard with his clever mind control tactics he stole from others.

    It works...when standardly applied. It's the "snitch culture" on its way to robotism...not thinking for oneself...letting those "higher" than you - do all the thinking.

    Talk about Stimulus Response.... A=A=A!

    Lurkers - you better do your homework; dictionaries and clay - in hand. OSA - you too.... YOU ARE SPENDING YOUR LIFE DEFENDING SCIENTOLOGY - I hope you know what you are doing....would hate to see the egg on your face if you are WRONG.



    Scientology really is a very precise Science of MARKETING.....they promise you won't have to do any thinking...

    Ron knows...
    David Miscavige - COB - knows
    The C/S knows
    The auditor knows

    more about YOU than YOU.

    Remember the slick marketing gimmick...

    The one where Scientology says "learn about yourself"

    and then it uses mind control tactics to create a false self....one that is loyal to Scientology and not to oneself or ones own family

    How many people walk into Scientology with DREAMS and GOALS....

    To be a dancer,
    To play the drums professionally,
    To be an actor or actress etc...

    Then...pretty soon - one is "being nothing" and giving all to the CULT cuz Ron says so...
    People unknowingly sign BILLION YEAR contracts without understanding the committment
    People sign GAG orders after bragging to their friends "Scientology fights for freedom of speech"
    People sign contracts basically allowing Scientology to completely control them....no REFUNDS unless you do the routing form...to get back IN Scientology and find your crimes...cuz Ron says...no one wants to leave unless they are hiding BIG CRIMES...


    Think about that OSA - if you are still ABLE....
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