Did you consider yourself gullible?

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Oooooh!

Your quote?

Damn, that sounds like something that should be (or was) in one of those "Best Quotes of All Time" books.

It was in a fortune cookie I got once.
or
It's a paraphrase from Shakespeare or Pee Wee Herman ( I forget which one)
wait, no,
It is an old joke from when I was growing up.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Gadfly]

I was idealistic, naive in that I didn't question it. unkowledgable in that I didn't know what else was out there.

Basically, I had a held-down me.

But not gullible. The word gullible is not in the dictionary. The definition is written on the bottom of your shoes.

The Anabaptist Jacques

I had a held-down me

(for the uninitiated that is a joke on the Hubbard phrase "held-down seven" from DMSMH)

 

[otgirl8]

Re: Did you consider yourself gullible? Yes, at least more trusting than most- but

So it really was Truth Revealed then. Where you ever on staff? I never was, so I suppose I didn't get to see as much ugliness as the people who were. I just left because there was nothing that made me want to stay. I learned all about the abuse after I left. I consider myself one of the lucky ones.

Yes and yes again! I was in the Sea Org before I did my major OTlevels outside the S.O. But on staff and well as after you do your OT levels you are more able to see behind the Wizard of Oz black curtain!

 

[otgirl8]

Re: Did you consider yourself gullible? Yes, at least more trusting than most- but

I didn't get that far, OTgirl. I was the one waiting by the fireside looking up the chimney every Christmas eve, still believing in Father Christmas and hoping good things would come.

Ohhhhhh! Well I still believe in miracles and Magic and I have had some wonderful things happen to me - even with Scientology- before the evil filtered in too much!

 

[otgirl8]

Wow, someone had deep pockets! ( ;P )

The abuse actually starts right at the first dime given to this fraudulant and malicious cult and you believe the first of a half century of lies from a lunatic (that'd be Lron, zeero of mankind). The fun begins tright away!
Oh yeh!
I actually LOVED my Bridge in Scientology and became very able and went from a grocery checker to Top of an MLM and one of the first females to make 6 figures and I attribute it to Scientology. But when the church stole $200,000 from my account to give away Basic Books and screwed up the L's by changing the tech I had to cut bait- take my marbles and RUN!
:shark:

see above

 

[auntpat]

Where men are considered YES. Where Scn was considered, NO. I joined for purpossses I had. When I accomplished those, I left. I left in 1973 and was mostly unaware of the abuses. I was just beginning to hear about them. I observed one SO Mission at LA Org when I was on staff. They pretty much tore up the staff with lower conditions, grey rags, etc. I made sure my stats were in affluence and waltzed right by them.

I know how some of you hate to hear it, but the 16 years I was in Scn were fun. Good fellowship, fun courses, Ron awarded me the SHSBC and C/S COURSE.Working in the franchisess were fun up until the last one. i really do not feel my time was wasted. I matured and learned some useful tools for life.

What I really hate was what Scn has become. I did not see that with the beginning it had no chance but what we observe today and what must be stopped anyway possible. Too many have suffered and died already.

Love and Light,
Pat

 

[Gadfly]

Where men are considered YES. Where Scn was considered, NO. I joined for purpossses I had. When I accomplished those, I left. I left in 1973 and was mostly unaware of the abuses. I was just beginning to hear about them. I observed one SO Mission at LA Org when I was on staff. They pretty much tore up the staff with lower conditions, grey rags, etc. I made sure my stats were in affluence and waltzed right by them.

I know how some of you hate to hear it, but the 16 years I was in Scn were fun. Good fellowship, fun courses, Ron awarded me the SHSBC and C/S COURSE.Working in the franchisess were fun up until the last one. i really do not feel my time was wasted. I matured and learned some useful tools for life.

What I really hate was what Scn has become. I did not see that with the beginning it had no chance but what we observe today and what must be stopped anyway possible. Too many have suffered and died already.

Love and Light,
Pat

I might suggest that just because you didn't see it directly, that this doesn't mean that it didn't exist. A key problem for Hubbard in the early days was that he did not yet have extensive control over the organizations through the Sea Org and tightly controlled management lines. These developed all throughout the 70s and early 80s (per Hubbard's design and push).

The reason WHY it was fun and less oppressive is because Hubbard was still formulating his visions and solidifying the management structure. Once he could be and was in full control, things REALLY started going down hill.

I was in a few orgs when the first WDC missions swooped down on all the orgs in the early 1980s, this involved early solidifying of the managament lines, and things REALLY began to suck.

I was in the Toronto org running the "sweat-out program" with the WDC missionaires, who were reporting DIRECTLY to Hubbard. We were a "pilot" for the Purification R/D, and Hubbard adjusted weekly the program as we ran it. I actually arranged for the use of saunas in various hotels and health clubs - before any orgs had them.

Then there was the Mission Holders Conference (pure LRH intention and direction), which made it even worse.

The only reason for the apparency of a "better and more fun early days" is because Hubbard was NOT YET IN FULL CONTROL. It was fun because the Sea Org and Hubbard had not yet fully implemented Hubbard's design.

It wasn't fun because of Scientology. It was fun despite Scientology.

Miscavige had the "advantage" of a "fully completed management structure" at his disposal. Something Hubbard himself never really had.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I might suggest that just because you didn't see it directly, that this doesn't mean that it didn't exist. A key problem for Hubbard in the early days was that he did not yet have extensive control over the organizations through the Sea Org and tightly controlled management lines. These developed all throughout the 70s and early 80s (per Hubbard's design and push).

The reason WHY it was fun and less oppresive is because Hubbard was still formulating his visions and solidifying the management structure. Once he could be and was in full control, things REALLY started going down hill.

I was in a few orgs when the first WDC missions swooped down on all the orgs in the early 1980s, this involved early solidifying of the managament lines, and things REALLY began to suck.

I was in the Toronto org running the "sweat-out program" with the WDC missionaires, who were reporting DIRECTLY to Hubbard. We were a "pilot" for the Purification R/D, and Hubbard adjusted weekly the program as we ran it. I actually arranged for the use of saunas in various hotels and health clubs - before any orgs had them.

Then there was the Mission Holders Conference (pure LRH intention and direction), which made it even worse.

The only reason for the apparency of a "better and more fun early days" is because Hubbard was NOT YET IN FULL CONTROL. It was fun because the Sea Org and Hubbard had not yet fully implemented Hubbard's design.

It wasn't fun because of Scientology. It was fun despite Scientology.

Miscavige had the "advantage" of a "fully completed management structure" at his disposal. Something Hubbard himself never really had.

That is certainly true with my expericence at FCDC.

When we did things our way it was fun. When we had to do things their way, it was a drag.

And once they had control they never let go. They being the Sea Org and management.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Stephanie]

I don't think I'm gullible, but I know peeps who think I am.

I knew the Church was what it was from the beginning, I walked in the org and saw a lot of unhappy people running around working their buns off.

I also knew there was something there that I wanted, gain, personal gain and I got it.

 

[Petey C]

I might suggest that just because you didn't see it directly, that this doesn't mean that it didn't exist. A key problem for Hubbard in the early days was that he did not yet have extensive control over the organizations through the Sea Org and tightly controlled management lines. These developed all throughout the 70s and early 80s (per Hubbard's design and push).

The reason WHY it was fun and less oppresive is because Hubbard was still formulating his visions and solidifying the management structure. Once he could be and was in full control, things REALLY started going down hill.

It was only "fun" for me because I met a bunch of people I really liked and because we were all in the same leaky boat together, we had quite a lot in common therefore no end of things to talk about. It was also somewhat "fun" because everyone was so incompetent and ignorant that we just banged around bumping into walls and each other, and our "work" consisted mainly of writing memos (often for days on end).

No-one in the SO -- except the cooks, the gardeners, the drivers, the people at GOLD and Pubs or whatever they call it today -- actually do anything other than write memos and "get in programs", do they? The work mainly consists of bashing someone on the head until the bashee comes up with money.

But just to be clear, it was always oppressive and the germs of the brutality that later emerged were there all the time. The SO is callous towards its staff and demonstrates in a hundred ways that SO members are shit: they eat shit, they are paid shit, they live in shit surroundings, and they're treated like shit. (It's a wonder that people emerge with a shred of self-esteem intact.) So maybe the "fun" we had was just a lessening of the awful conditions we lived in and took for granted. It's all relative.

 

[Boojuum]

The reason WHY it was fun and less oppresive is because Hubbard was still formulating his visions and solidifying the management structure. Once he could be and was in full control, things REALLY started going down hill.

Good thoughts, Gadfly! I would add that LRH's personality became increasingly controlling as he aged. Prior to the SO I'm not sure he cared that much what people did outside of classes/auditing.

Your point is well taken, as LRH got his way more and more, life for staff and public got worse and worse. And this is a key to understanding our basic dilemma.

 

[Kutta]

With regard to the OP and being gullible, I tried over and over again, for years after I left to figure out why or how come I fell for it. I never could work it out. I couldn't explain it to myself or anyone else. Still can't.

I've read several ideas here on ESMB that could apply, like the bait and switch, the initial love bombing, and that scientology taps into your interest in the spiritual, or it finds your 'ruin'. Still, none of them entirely answer the question satisfactorily.

I've decided it's a waste of energy to even think about it any more. There are so many more profitable things to spend time on.

 

[bobthebuilder]

With regard to the OP and being gullible, I tried over and over again, for years after I left to figure out why or how come I fell for it. I never could work it out. I couldn't explain it to myself or anyone else. Still can't.

I've read several ideas here on ESMB that could apply, like the bait and switch, the initial love bombing, and that scientology taps into your interest in the spiritual, or it finds your 'ruin'. Still, none of them entirely answer the question satisfactorily.

I've decided it's a waste of energy to even think about it any more. There are so many more profitable things to spend time on.

I really like that attitude Kutta, there are better things in life to spend time on and I am enjoying the freedom to do that these days. I suppose for a long time I wanted to find out why I had been sucked in and why I was so gullible and naive so that I could prevent it happening again in the future. I don't mean being dragged back in because that won't happen but I had the doubts of ' what if I get sucked into something else '. I try not to be cynical about everything people tell me but there is something in me that has to question absolutely everything anyone tells me even if it is a simple and not important thing because now I need to know before I will listen. Sorry if this is confusing. Sometimes I know what I mean but can't explain it.

So now I am going to watch football. It is not more profitable and not good for me when my team loses and I waste a lot of energy shouting at the television screen!

Thankyou for putting it in such a positive way Kutta.

 

[anonomog]

I've never been in a cult but I fell for a work from home scam when I desperately needed work. My common sense told me it was too good to be true, but my desperation pushed me on. I was gullible because I really wanted it to be true.

Honestly, I think if the right buttons are pushed everyone can be gullible. Everyone makes bad judgement calls at times. Live and learn.

I don't think it is anything to be ashamed of. Its part of the passage of life.

 

[Good twin]

Sorry if this topic has been brought up before but I wanted to know if anyone thinks they were gullible or more gullible than other people for being conned into scientology? My mate had a theory ( he told me after I left ) that I was an easy target because I believed in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy long after he discovered the truth and I always fell for practical jokes he played on us all. I'm not sure how true it is but it is true that I seemed to be easily conned even as a child. I'm not talking to the children here who were taken in or born into it but the grown ups among us who went in willingly ( or maybe I am just looking for excuses for going in at all ).

I didn't consider myself gullible at the time. Looking back?

I wanted to experience anything and everything. I believed what I saw read or heard people talk about. If some acquaintance offered me a drink I accepted it. I was a 20 year old hippy surfer chick. I had never been badly betrayed by anyone. I had never been lied to or misled about anything important. I believed in the goodness and honesty of people.

I'm pretty sure that's almost the definition of gullible.

 

[Gadfly]

I didn't consider myself gullible at the time. Looking back?

I wanted to experience anything and everything. I believed what I saw read or heard people talk about. If some acquaintance offered me a drink I accepted it. I was a 20 year old hippy surfer chick. I had never been badly betrayed by anyone. I had never been lied to or misled about anything important. I believed in the goodness and honesty of people.

I'm pretty sure that's almost the definition of gullible.

Wow! That nails it for me too - except the part about being a "surfer chick".

I wanted to experience anything and everything. I believed what I saw read or heard people talk about. I had never been badly betrayed by anyone. I had never been lied to or misled about anything important. I believed in the goodness and honesty of people.

I find the above described mental state NOW to be entirely useless. I am very happy to no longer suffer form the "idealism of youth". But somehow, I manage to still wake up every day and feel so greatly priveleged to be HERE, able to enjoy all the many wonders of this amazing universe!

Here's an interesting twist on things. Scientology pushes the notion that "Man is basically good". A person who BELIEVES that, above all else, might tend to suffer from "gullibility" for a much LONGER period of time (i.e. peopple who stay in Scientology despite all the may obvious resons not too). A mature and intelligent person understands that while maybe deep down, at some hidden-from-view core level, Man might be basically good, that IN REAL LIFE, it behooves one to grasp that people do lie, people do betray, and that con artists take advantage of this tendency for the young and idealistic to "accept things at face value".

"Basically good" means "deep down and VERY FAR below all the nastiness, ego, madness, lunacy, ignorance and delusion of many people". While it might be true, and probably IS true, it makes little difference in the world of real people and events. It is better to pay attention to actual behavior than to imaginary possibilities of what a person might "really be below all the obvious actual ways he or she currrently acts".