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Do $cientologists still think there are millions of them?

everything from eBay and Amazon) and some $30 extension courses.
I don't think she said the total "must be under $1500" because it was $30.

More fundamentally and as noted above, Kate wasn't criticized based on "some irrelevant fact," but instead based on her substantial financial support of an organization that engages in disconnection, the fair game harassment of critics, etc. You ask, "what of it?" Well, that is "what of it."
Ke-riste - please don't tell me what you think of the $2-300 K I gave the church if you are that freaked out over $1500. Dat's nottin' bro. Substantial my ass.

My wife pointed out, sometimes ESMB is the Anti-Scio site, meaning that we practice all the evils of Scientology in reverse - Shunning Scientologists, Attacking any with the slightest pro Scientology leanings, invaling any gains gotten from Scientology.

Did I say it happens all of the time? Wake the fuck up.

That aside, thanks for the responses.
You make good points.

Mimsey
 

Alle G

Patron with Honors
Comparing the cult to real religions is a very old scientology troll. I just wanted you to know. I'm sure it just a coincidence, but still. To me, if it's too small of a number to show in a census, it's just trivial. Secondly, the cult has no prayer, worship, God(s), or other basics of Religion. Everyone understands that but scientologists who post to the contrary.

No, no, no. This is not a religious belief, no. 1) It is science and technology, we have proof how Hubbard survived this planet.
2) OR we don't really believe it, we just pretend, to show the world that we are a religion, because what's on this poster is a religious belief just for the display for outsiders.

(Picture from the latest Tony O)

clears_ots.jpg
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
No, no, no. This is not a religious belief, no. 1) It is science and technology, we have proof how Hubbard survived this planet.
2) OR we don't really believe it, we just pretend, to show the world that we are a religion, because what's on this poster is a religious belief just for the display for outsiders.

(Picture from the latest Tony O)

clears_ots.jpg



FIFY


clears_ots_zps172703ac.jpg
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
As I've said here several times, I had undiagnosed narcolepsy several years ago. I don't turn to Scientology for remedies for that - in fact I scoff at their ignorance over neurological diseases that have testable genetic components, such as narcolepsy. But again, the stuff you are telling me to get help for happened years ago, its not an ongoing thing.

Kate,
I understand how you feel about a lot of what you are reading here, others do as well, I assure you. It was a VERY painful process of breaking away from the very group that promised you everything but delivered nothing - kind of like an embittered marriage breakup that leaves a person feeling used, let down, discouraged. Many here has already gone through that process and it does stir ones emotions, sometimes to the hilt. But you may have found a home here and I'm encouraged by by your above comment, it tells me your on your way out. And the way out is NOT the way through, that only keeps you stuck in their quicksand - that's why it was purported in the first place. The way out IS the way out, believe the signs in spite of being conditioned not to like we all once were.:thumbsup:
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
..




Makes no sense.

You are getting more active in the Church of Scientology, a known criminal cult specializing in fraud, stalking and terrorism? But as you get "more active" you are "openly" showing that you are a squirrel to staff and Sea Org members?

If I believed you (which I find virtually impossible at this point) it means that you are taunting Scientologists into Declaring you an SP.

Actually, let's make it simpler. Unless you are baiting the COS into declaring you for no conceivable reason that you have stated, you are making this stuff up and getting off on trolling.

I prefer to stick with reality. If you are doing these things you claim, you should offer up something more than absurd contradictions if you want to be taken seriously.



There are plenty of Scientologists who dawdle in it and don't get declared. Especially if you are not near a Sea Org base. Getting someone SP declared is a lot of work... paperwork. Someone dawdling would not really be a prospect for it.

If this person was an opinion leader and pulling people out of the church or trying to talk people into looking elsewhere, yes. They could quickly find themselves in ethics and kicked out.

But a person dawdling and not trying to convert others to something else? Meh, they most likely would not get bothered too much.
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
It also means - making sure your clubbed seals don't LOOK at any other philosphy's or religions because Hubbard would get found out - he copied all the good stuff from others. Scientology does not want you to do anything but Scientology because there are things you can do that are better and they are FREE! A squirrel is anyone who does anything, including Scientology, outside the regime!

Read Napolean Hill - he wrote all about achieving success and he did this BEFORE L Con Hubbard copied his stuff!

If you are caught with the book - THE SECRET - you are in serious ethics trouble:no::nervous::omg::omg:

So get the Secret and read it. It is the OT stuff without the cult - you can check it out at your local Library where NO L Ron Hubbard books sit!:happydance: The Library Campaign was a total FLUNK - they threw them in the dumpsters!

Heh. Interesting. What I was told is Hubbard dove into the ocean of all data which is somewhere in the cosmos. He looked at every piece and brought back only those that are "senior" and correct. From that data he crafted D and S. Therefore other religions or philosophies certainly have bits and pieces of good things that work but only scientology has the entire show.

I've never heard from anyone IRL that The Secret is a contraband book. I may just bring it home and put it on the reading table and see what happens.

So what about the stories I hear of org members who are also practicing Muslims, Catholics, etc? There's a multi-decade org member who does some other alternative sorts of things - Reiki, accupuncture and the like. Also verboten?

Blanky
 

Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
There are plenty of Scientologists who dawdle in it and don't get declared. Especially if you are not near a Sea Org base. Getting someone SP declared is a lot of work... paperwork. Someone dawdling would not really be a prospect for it.

If this person was an opinion leader and pulling people out of the church or trying to talk people into looking elsewhere, yes. They could quickly find themselves in ethics and kicked out.

But a person dawdling and not trying to convert others to something else? Meh, they most likely would not get bothered too much.

This is true. She might be on-lines at Minneapolis living in North Dakota. Since there are only 10 public on a warm winter day this gives all 5 of their staff time to debate her squirrelyness.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I don't see anything tough crowd about it.

We was just asking questions and some was just giving their opinions.

WTF is so tough about that?


:hysterical:

Maybe it's that Scientologists are at an unfair disadvantage outside of an org where people use the inval tech called facts.
 

Gib

Crusader
:hysterical:

Maybe it's that Scientologists are at an unfair disadvantage outside of an org where people use the inval tech called facts.

I'm not certain about that,

I'll have to re-do the basics, or known as reading everything hub wrote and lectured on. OMG, I'm gonna be busy for awhile. LOL
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I'm not certain about that,

I'll have to re-do the basics, or known as reading everything hub wrote and lectured on. OMG, I'm gonna be busy for awhile. LOL


Funny you should bring up the RE-DO tech.

That is probably the most "basic" tech there is in Scientology, as discovered back in 1950 with DMSMH. Repeater tech. Jeez, it has so many applications!

WHEN PEOPLE DON'T RESPOND TO YOUR COMMANDS: "I'll repeat the auditing command....."

WHEN SOMETHING HUBBARD SAYS MAKES NO SENSE: "Go back and read it again..."

WHEN OT LEVELS DON'T WORK: "Go back and re-do the grade chart starting with re-reading the books and re-doing objectives again..."

WHEN PRESENT TIME REALITY DOESN'T MATCH BRIDGE HYPE: "Go back in time 75 million years and stay there until Ron's sci-fi is real to you..."


That last one is eerily like a parent's stern reprimand to a badly-behaving child ("Go to your [STRIKE]room[/STRIKE] universe and think about what [STRIKE]you[/STRIKE] Xenu did.")
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Scientology is an apocalyptic, criminal cult whose members are taught to have certainty.

Certainty is a key element of the Scientology brainwashing process known as Keeping Scientology Working.

Scientologists take great pride in their certainty.

But it is a certainty that is defined by not knowing essential facts.

Certainty is defined as having clarity of observation, but, in the case of Scientology,

it is the equivalent of having tunnel vision.

But this gets increasingly difficult to maintain, particularly when the essential facts become

more and more pronounced and obvious, as in empty buildings and the fact that there are no OT's.

There are thousands of deluded Scientologists who believe there are millions of (deluded) Scientologists.

And they are certain.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Well sorry for challenging your worldview I guess...

I do talk openly with staff and SO about experimenting with various processes on my own on myself including processes that are not part of normal Scientology. They have actually all thought it was cool that I was doing that. It could be that I'm just good about knowing who would be receptive to such things and only talking to them about it or that I'm good at wording it ways that sound positive but so far it hasn't been an issue. When talking to them about it, its something that I don't make a big deal about and I just act like its natural.

I'm not trying to get declared but rather I'm acting in a way I believe I should be able to act without regard to what the church thinks about it. Honestly I don't care if you believe me or think I'm trolling anymore than I care how the CofS tells me how I'm supposed to interpret Scientology.

I'm guessing you talking to staff via phone or skype. You mentioned you were 100s of miles from the org. Thus they can't whip you up to see the E/O. Also
you are div 6 public, and such are in general cut more slack than one on auditor training. Also people new to Scn will usually have interest in other practices.
Looks like the people you talk with have the sense not to blow you off.
Possibly a minor miracle:coolwink:
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Her thought bubble:

I really hope the next 999,999,999.5 years are better than the last 6 months . . .

Too true.

She looks more sad and wistful than purposeful and dedicated. What was the art director of that shoot thinking?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
It's not a battle. It's a simple statement of truth.



Not accurate. See Professor Steven Kent for starters. No one argues that Scientology does not use "religion," as a component, as part of its disguise.

Scientology Inc. has been deceitfully influencing, hiring, and infiltrating [the New Religion Movement] academics for decades.

I know you're in the middle of that - it being part of your area of study at school - through no fault of your own. It's the environment in which you find yourself at this time.

I consider Scn a religion. Not all scientologists do. The vast majority of
academics for new religious movements also consider it a religion.

I was recently asked to speak at Inform's 25th anniversary conference and talked
re CO$ and the FZ. It seemed to be very well recieved, and had much critical
content. I ended by defining "shill" and quoting from the ED of Seattle's
hat write up on using shills in begging for money.

I was at one point introduced to J Gordon Melton, and found out that he hadn't
read Larry Brennan's essay on religious cloaking. I've sent him a copy.

http://www.inform.ac/
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Yes. AND.... This cherry picking cafeteria approach is dangerous in the Co$. At some point you'll get sucked so far in that you won't know your way out. In the FZ you'd at least be able to be open and honest with yourself and others about your cafeteria approach. And whatever you got sucked into would be far less harmful.

Btw, how are they letting you do courses if you had a mental breakdown? How are you NOT an illegal PC? Serious question...

P.S. I was a public and I'm a celeb. I disagree that we're insulated from the bad shit, FYI.

Doing courses is OK for illegals....mostly.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

The vast majority of
academics for new religious movements also consider it a religion.

The origin of the term 'New Religion Movement', and of "New Religion Movement' studies, is shady and unwholesome.

In the 1960s, there were the terms, 'New Age Spirituality', and 'the occult', and 'mysticism', and 'cults'; however, the term 'New Religion (also religious) Movement' did not appear until the 1970s, when it began to be used by apologists as a substitute for the word 'cult'.


From the Brennan statement:

12... While organized Scientology today parades out various scholars that say they are "religious," I can tell you that the scholar program was started in the Guardian's Office and I worked on it as early as 1974.

32. Religious cloaking was intentionally used to help organized Scientology make money and avoid compliance with myriad laws that would otherwise apply if it were not so considered. The use of scholars to say Scientology was a religion or organized Scientology was a religious organization was carefully planned and executed to forward the cover of religious cloaking...

-snip-

I was at one point introduced to J Gordon Melton, and found out that he hadn't
read Larry Brennan's essay on religious cloaking. I've sent him a copy.

-snip-

You're being jerked around and poked like a two headed turtle in a terrarium. These "scholars" are not interested in your opinions, but only in observing you, as an anthropologist would observe a primitive tribe in the rain forest.

J. Gordon Melton, who's worked as a paid "religious expert" for a variety of destructive cults, including Scientology Inc., probably has read, or is at least aware of, the Brennan statement on religious cloaking. He knows the subject better than you do, as I doubt that you've actually read it. Melton, knowingly and willingly, was a participant in the contemptuous fraud of religious cloaking for decades. He's not one of the dupes. He's a knowing a willing paid participant in the fraud.
 

kate8024

-deleted-
J. Gordon Melton, who's worked as a paid "religious expert"

While I can't speak to him working as a paid expert, I did read his book on Scientology and found it to be pretty much total crap. He was _way_ too soft on them by completely avoiding analyzing controversial topics. Dr. Urban's book on Scientology was, in my opinion, 1000x better than Melton's. It's still academic in tone but he takes a critical look at the controversies that have been part of Scientology's history.
 
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