do they physically prevent you from leaving?

Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by not-a-cult-member, Mar 21, 2016.

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  1. not-a-cult-member

    not-a-cult-member New Member

    hi, i've read a lot about the cult after watching Going Clear, and i'm completely fascinated by it. It's astonishing Miscavige hasn't been arrested and charged with running a massive criminal organization. I've read numerous accounts of people being guarded around the clock, seen how they have barbed fences pointing to the inside at the Gold Base in CA, being locked in the hole, etc., and their escapes.

    So my question is how do they avoid getting charged with kidnapping? If someone says, "I want to leave," do they let them? Is the guarding and locked rooms largely a psychological (albeit very effective) tactic to make people think they cannot leave?

  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    It varies.

    Yes, I have personally experienced being locked in and prevented from leaving.

    The reason why they are not charged with kidnapping is:

    1) If the Scientologist goes to the police, he will be "declared" (expelled and shunned), and most Scientologists are not willing to go this far. I wasn't, at the time of my experience.

    2) The organization has people who will be willing to lie and deny that any coercion occurred, that the complainant is delusional.

    A long-time-in Scientologist is imprisoned more by his mind, than by physical barriers. Think of abused spouses and why so many of them don't "just leave". The organization generally knows better than to try physical restraint on a new person who has not yet been conditioned.
  3. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

  4. Elronius of Marcabia

    Elronius of Marcabia Silver Meritorious Patron

    Anyone who has a had a shitty job for shitty wages with a shitty boss and wants to leave
    but has responsibility of family can tell you why they don't up and leave.

    Same mentality applies only it's like up the stakes in that persons mind, your eternity and the
    whole human race is depending on "YOU" and what you do ?

    Yeah it's bullshit, but once you bought in, it's very real:melodramatic::ohmy::duh: and the indoctrination
    reinforces it daily with study and processing.

    "YOU" are the ONE the Neo the heroic character who is going to save the world :melodramatic:the ultimate ego trip
    the box of rocks sold by Hubbard and his ilk.

    Yes you do have to have rocks in your head to believe it:duh:
  5. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I was also physically prevented from leaving, physically guarded 24/7, for nearly a year, illegally physically prevented from seeing my 4-year old son (I had legal custody). Trapped and imprisoned on scientology's forced 'Rehabilitation Project Force' program as their effort to re-indoctrinate and 'salvage' me as a staff member simply for wanting to leave.

    In the last few weeks of that year, the guarding lightened up as I was going to be released. I was encouraged to 'blow' (leave without authorization). With only a few weeks left, I wasn't going to condemn my young son to a life where he would never be allowed to speak to his father if I was declared an SP for blowing. Not after going through all that and having only weeks left and being this close. So I bit the bullet in those last few weeks and hung in there so that wouldn't happen. Prior to that, I was not allowed to speak to those outside the RPF (Rehabilitation Project Force), anything negative I said was reported, I was not allowed access to telephones, mailboxes, stamps, etc. I certainly had nothing to record with, since all my personal belongings were taken except personal clothing and essentials and removed from my living quarters. There was no physical way to tell others outside what was being done.

    At one point I was even warned that if I ever attempted to tell anyone, that the scientology people would say whatever was necessary to deny it happened. Their word against mine. Their big money against my lack of it. Their army of enforcers and true believers against little ol' me.

    No, I took my son and ran.

    I didn't have a shot in hell of making a kidnapping charge stick and was traumatized by the time I left.
  6. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Besides Scientology's litigious nature - and it being designed and operated as a deceptive and ruthless psychological-political operation which "asserts and maintains dominion over thoughts and loyalties" - fraudulently asserted religious cloaking is a large part of the reason why Scientology escapes being held accountable for its actions.

    There's a news story from southern California, from some years ago, about a family that kept another family member chained to a bed and imprisoned in the house. At some point the police discovered this and intervened.

    This, in Scientology, is called "baby watch," and the people doing it at their home were Scientologists. To make a long story short, once the police learned that these were Scientologists, and Scientologists emphasizing that Scientology is "their religion," etc., the police became instantly meek.

    The police asked that the people not doing it anymore and slinked away.

    Perhaps someone can find this story as all I have is my recollection of it, but it's an example of Scientology's "religion angle" being applied.


    'Leaving and leaves' by L. Ron Hubbard, 1976:

    "...informing fellow staff members that one is leaving is properly labelled a suppressive act."

    From Professor Steven Kent's notes in his 'Brainwashing in Scientology's Rehabilitation Project Force', under the category of 'forcible confinement', addressing events mostly from the 1970s:

    "[Former Sea Org members]... spoke about either being forcibly confined themselves... or seeing others who were... Jesse Prince insists that he saw metal cages in the RPF's RPF in the basement of the [Los Angeles] Cedars Sinai building [Blue Buildings] where inmates 'were locked up at night to ensure that they wouldn't try to escape'. On the east coast, Dennis Erlich [while on the RPF] joked about his RPF assignment and, in accordance with Hubbard's policy [against joking about the RPF], wound up in the RPF's RPF in Fort Harrison's basement. Guarded down there for ten days, Erlich states that he spent the first two or three days locked in a cage... Tonja Burden swore, 'under pains and penalties of perjury' that she personally observed a person chained to pipes in the boiler room in the Fort Harrison building for a period of weeks... Likewise Hana Whitfield swore that, while she was on the RPF at the Fort Harrison [in Clearwater, Florida], Lyn Froyland was assigned to the RPF's RPF and was chained to a pipe down there [in the basement] for weeks, under guard. She was taken meals and allowed toilet breaks but no other hygiene'."

    My first experience, as a non-staff "public person," with someone being involuntarily held in a Scientology organization was second hand and occurred in the early 1970s. I heard about it from a still upset - and very naive - (Class IV, these days it's called Class V) Org staff member (I was naive too) who had encountered someone handcuffed to a large metal table in a part of the Org off-limits to the public.

    In those days, being in any way "on lines," and - suddenly and visibly - deciding to leave the premises of an Org was taboo. Why? It was explained that people who wanted to leave were becoming the effect of their reactive minds and that it was compassionate to restrain them from leaving ("blowing").

    As Hubbard had explained, "reactive minds do not have rights."

    Even auditing rooms were supposed to have the auditor seated nearer to the door in case the person decided to leave, so the auditor could stop the person from leaving.

    One was supposed to handle the person attempting to (visibly and suddenly) leave.

    Around the same time, there was also a minor PR flap around an incident where someone in the Org had suddenly "blown," and two staff members followed him out of the Org on to the street, and dragged him back into the Org. (Since the Org was in a large hotel - The Martinique Hotel in Manhattan - some "wogs" had complained to the hotel's management.) To the Scientological mind, this was an application of "8-C" or "good control." The person's reactive mind had forced him to blow, and Scientologists, connected to Source, the savior of the galaxy L. Ron Hubbard, etc. were applying the tech, and putting ethics in, by 8-Cing him back, so that he could be properly handled, and saved from the dwindling spiral, and eventually travel up the Grade Chart to Total Freedom.

    Scientology and false imprisonment:


    Video on Religious cloaking - the affidavit:

    The complete document:


    Excerpt from the above video/affidavit on


    7. Based on years of work in the senior most legal bodies of organized scientology as covered above I have dealt with directly or supervised the handling of hundreds of legal matters involving the organizations of scientology which directly or indirectly had to do with using religious cloaking...

    8. It was determined that the only way to handle many of the legal matters in front of us and still apply Hubbard’s policies that had to do with staff, ethics, sales of services, money, delivery of services and the like was to develop and use a religious cloaking saying scientology was a religion, its services religious, its staff members of religious orders and the like. I can state without doubt that the overwhelming main reason that organized scientology developed and pushed its religious cloaking was to avoid a myriad of real or potential legal problems that would exist by following Hubbard’s policies if it were not considered a religion. By developing this religious cloaking for organized scientology it was hoped to avoid legal requirements around the world that might otherwise have to be followed that would make it impossible to follow Hubbard’s policies. In developing the religious cloaking for organized scientology, the following were considered a few of the “benefits” so that Hubbard policies could be applied. There are countless examples but the below are listed simply as a few of them:

    (i) minimum wages would not have to be paid;

    (ii) staff could be sent to different parts of the world and be able to stay locally as religious workers;

    (iii) standard employee rights, such as those found in laws like the Fair Labor Standards Act, could be discarded and thus Hubbard policies involving such things as ethics conditions, the Rehabilitation Project Force and the like could be applied without outside interference;

    (iv) less scrutiny would be allowed on the controls of the funds of scientology and the intermingling of funds between the corporations and other legal fictions of organized scientology;

    (v) it was hoped that the treatment of public scientologists and the use of their funds would be considered outside the purview of governmental bodies;

    (vi) couching the demand for and flow of monies within organized scientology using “religious” terms (such as by saying that clear cut mandatory payments for services were “fixed donations” and were mandated by the scripture of “exchange”) was hoped to cut off attempts by governments and others to look into them further...

    11. Two of the things that organized scientology felt were of the most importance in order to avoid compliance with many laws that were contrary to Hubbard policy were the religious cloaking as covered above and a corporate restructuring to make it very difficult if not impossible for outsiders to ever get to the main assets of organized scientology and to ensure that the real leaders of organized scientology could be insulated from legal liability by hiding their real controls behind a myriad of corporate and other legal veils. It was considered both a defensive and offensive strategy to have such cloaking (religious and corporate) in place.

    Defensively it makes it very difficult for individuals or even governments to force legal compliance of the many types of laws as covered above. It also makes it almost impossible to hold those that really control organized scientology responsible legally or to get to the financial assets of organized scientology spread out around the world. Offensively, it gives organized scientology a “safe base” from which to attack critics and/or anyone it feels is its enemy. Hiding behind religious cloaking and corporate veils it can act as a victim when people point out its crimes and injustices calling them “religious bigots” and even scaring governments, many of whom are not supposed to get involved with “religious matters”. By calling policies by Hubbard or Miscavige that are otherwise abusive or contrary to law “religious scripture” it was hoped to avoid legal scrutiny of same.


    L. Ron Hubbard saw himself as a master of psychology.

    From Hubbard's 1946 (to himself) 'Affirmations':

    Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write...

    Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler.




    A few years later the book 'Science of Survival' was written, where the Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation and Tone Scale were presented. One little twist was that placement of the person on the Tone Scale could be easily ascertained by noting the person's opinion of Dianetics, the Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation, and the book 'Science of Survival', and, of course, its author.

    Wrote Hubbard in 'Science of Survival' of 1951:

    Those chronically below 2.0 on the Tone Scale should have "no rights of any kind," and, ideally, be "disposed of quietly and without sorrow," or at least be quarantined or isolated from society.


    From 'Science of Survival: Prediction of Human Behavior' - by L Ron Hubbard, 1951:

    The reasonable man quite ordinarily overlooks the fact that people from 2.0 down have no traffic with reason and cannot be reasoned with as one would reason with a 3.0. There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale , neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes .

    The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow. Adders are safe bedmates compared to people on the lower bands of the tone scale. Not all the beauty nor the handsomeness nor artificial social value nor property can atone for the vicious damage such people do to sane men and women. The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered. It is not necessary to produce a world of clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down, either by processing them enough to get their tone level above the 2.0 line — a task which, indeed, is not very great, since the amount of processing in many cases might be under fifty hours, although it might also in others be in excess of two hundred — or simply quarantining them from the society.

    A Venezuelan dictator [Juan Vincente Gomez] once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country.

    This was an early expression of what, years later, would be formalized as Disconnection and the Fair Game Law.


    However, it wasn't until 1955, in his 'Manual on Dissemination of Material', that Hubbard began, formally, in writing, instructing Scientologists on such things as "attacking" and "ruining utterly."

    And his instructions in this area continued, with Hubbard developing special "tech" for various forms of attacking, overwhelming, dominating, influencing, deceiving, and manipulating.

    Much of this "tech" was directed at outsiders ("wogs") and at former members of Scientology who "squirreled," but much of it - in various forms - was also directed at members of Scientology in good standing.

    A question from Hubbard's Security Check for Scientologists of 1961:

    "Have you ever had unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?"

    Hubbard remained concerned with what he called "SPs," and wrote extensively on the subject. He wrote in 'Discipline. SPs and Admin' in 1969:

    "I am not interested in wog morality... I can make Captain Bligh look like a Sunday School teacher."

    Also in the late 1960s, Hubbard wrote about "taking over political guidance" by "taking over absolutely the field of mental healing."

    Those who were in a position to decide (and police) who is to be classified as "sane" or classified as "insane," and who had control over "mental healing," would rule, so the idea went.

    And From an LRH Executive Directive of 24 November 1968:

    "We're going to take over mental hospitals and political guidance and the whole field of mental healing [which includes criminal rehabilitation] It may take us years, but we've got the years. We've got the tech..."

    And finally, from Hubbard's 1969 'Intelligence Actions, Covert Intelligence Data Collection':

    "...take over absolutely the field of mental healing on this planet in all its forms...

    "Our total victory [over the 'psychs' and 'wogs'] will come when we run his organizations, perform his functions, and obtain his financing and appropriations."


    Then, one day in 1973, Hubbard made an announcement [Hubbard in red]:


    I have made a technical breakthrough which possibly ranks with the major discoveries of the twentieth century. It is certainly the greatest achievement of 1973 and is now being released after a final write-up of the research. It is called the Introspection Rundown.


    In 1970 the actual cause of PSYCHOSIS was isolated... In the ensuing years this has been proven beyond doubt to be correct.

    But what is a psychotic break?

    Man has never been able to solve the psychotic break. In fact, human beings are actually afraid of a person in a psychotic break and in desperation turn to psychiatry to handle.

    [And here Hubbard goes on about psychiatry, ice picks, electric shocks, etc., then...]


    [Then there are the steps of the RD, and the HCOB ends with...]


    [Then there's the HCOB of February 1974, titled...]



    In a person in a psychotic break, it is necessary to isolate them for them to destimulate and to protect them and others from possible damage...

    There comes a point where the C/S must decide to release the person from isolation. To do this the C/S must know if the person can take responsibility for his actions...

    The C/S's action is a direct comm line to the person by notes. The person is provided with paper and pen to reply. The C/S must determine the person's responsibility level. Example: "Dear Joe. What can you guarantee me if you are let out of isolation?"... "Dear Joe. I'm sorry but no go on coming out of isolation yet..."


    Randomly located on the Internet, here's Eileen Vernjack's SP Declare from 1972:

    "...they cannot be granted the rights and beingness ordinarily accorded rational beings..."

    There are many more "SP Declares."

    Now imagine being regarded as a "Suppressive Person," or its equivalent, while being INSIDE a Scientology organization.

    Hope this helps. :)
  7. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Besides Just Shelia's post about it above....

    There were lessor types of being detained....such as Cult Officials standing in door ways.....shut doors and keep one in a room....

    I recall at one big event at the Shrine in Los Angeles....leaving my seat a bit early.....and trying to walk away....and my arm being grabbed....and my way blocked....( I imagine there was an enormous amount of pressure put on those staff ....recruited to work an Event at the "make others comply" with what ever the plan for the night's presentation was...)

    Also while studying a Course ......Attendance was strictly enforced....and trying to get any time off was very difficult....(such as for a Dental Appointment or some such...) and involved writing up a "request" and getting it "approved." Non-Compliance.....or a being late to a would be "sent to Ethics..."
  8. poppy

    poppy Patron

    YES - I was physically detained.
  9. Hypatia

    Hypatia Pagan

    There are people who were forcibly detained. But as to staff standing in doorways and that sort of thing; although it's unconscionable and probably still very close to illegal-that's more intimidation. One can get out. Problem is people in Scio are taught not to argue back. They're also scared of losing family, if they have family in the cult. I've heard of a few people who made waves and left or walked out of the event or whatever it was but it's really rare as far as I can tell.

    Cults get people to police themselves and to indoctrinate themselves. They get members to hold themselves prisoner so that even if they could have slipped away- they often don't. Hubbard had some story about fish seeing shadowy bars in the water and believing themselves to be in a cage. Well, yeah because that's exactly what he was doing to his followers.
  10. not-a-cult-member

    not-a-cult-member New Member

    thanks for the replies. I suspected as much, but it's still almost incomprehensible that they're getting away with stuff like this. The Co$ needs to be destroyed. I wonder if the government could go after them the way they went after the mafia -- RICO.

    I'm glad those of you who replied are now out. The more stuff on the Internet, the tougher it'll be for them to survive. It appears it's beginning to spiral out of control, though not quickly enough.
  11. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I believe the cage that Jesse referred to is immediately around the corner towards Sunset Blvd. from the Incinerator Room where Scott Campbell said he was detained. The incinerator smoke stacks can be seen on the SW corner of Lebanon Hall so the cage would be under the NW section of the building. The cage was an original installation from Cedars. It was roughly about 10’ wide X 15’ deep. The walls were cement but the enclosure and gate facing the hall were chain link fencing. Many of the rooms down there have exposed pipes on the ceilings but as I recall the cage ceiling just had the old hospital fluorescent lights. I think the left wall was the wall behind the body drawers in the morgue or there might have been a room between the left wall and the morgue. It is possible there were other "cages" in the tunnels but I don't remember that offhand.

    Here is a video on Scott Campbell’s story about the Incinerator Room:
  12. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

  13. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    Did they physically prevent ME from leaving? Technically, no. But when I was routing out as a Flag public they locked my bags in a room while they tried to talk me out of going. That was one step less than "getting physical".

    That was the beginning of the end.

  14. Hypatia

    Hypatia Pagan

    I'd be like- oh hey, I left my checkbook in my bag... Just unlock the door and gimme a sec...

    Ahahahaha suckerz!!!
  15. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    I love it. But they weren't asking for $$$, just a return date. (Somebody always wants SOMETHING before letting you go -- there's no point where they say, "that's all for now".) And I couldn't outrun them, with two bags, to where the Flag airport shuttle was (like THAT would have done any good). And I wanted to leave on good terms, so I could return.

    Eventually, I let them pump up my enthusiasm, and gave them a date. And I meant it at the time (for about 10 minutes). I got out, and never came back.

    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  16. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    That I never saw a cage does NOT mean they do not exist. It's fits with the SO mentality.

    Anyway, I do know for a fact that the RPF's RPF was put in the bowels of the complex in what had been the morgue of the hospital. The body rack drawers were still in place. No matter vehemently it is denied it remains something I know existed.

    I heard rumors from people I trust that some people were put lower than that. They got put down in the pipe & electrical passages directly under the morgue. Those passage corridors go all over the complex ( I heard over to AOLA, too ) so anyone put down there would have had to have been restrained in some fashion.

    There was also a chain link fence put up around the horseshoe.

    The place up in the mountains near LA that is hidden away . . . Twin something ? Razor wire pointed inward. Hemet where the fences are the same as a California prison ?

    Why does a church need such things ?

    Why does a church imprison it's own staff ?

    To any sane person there is some strange stuff going on with that bunch.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
  17. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    In the 70s:

    The autopsy tables were still there also along with the stainless sinks with those cool knee lever controls. It was the RPF's RPF's RPF that was kept in a utility room about 15' deep X 25' wide across the hall from the morgue and a little towards Catalina. This was right across the hall from the cage. It had a regular door, no windows, exposed steam pipes on the ceiling. I think they slept on mattresses on the floor. There isn't anything under the morgue that I know of except possibly a crawl space or conduit.

    Edit: So I think the way it was for a while was RPF in the morgue, RPF's RPF in the cage, RPF's RPF's RPF in the utility room. I personally don't remember the cage being used for the RPF's RPF but that might just be my memory. The RPF was later moved to the upper floor of the Main Building.

    People did not need to be restrained although Jesse Prince clearly says he was. I expect most remained out of coercion, fear or devout compliance with policy and tech. The RPF was promoted as a Scientology tech program with co-auditing, etc. and as a cultie that is how we rationalized it. They had partners and units that kept an eye on each other and designated "guards" but for the most part there wasn't much in the way of physical restraint. There were a lot of blows. The Complex has many ways of getting from one point to another, lots of exits, fire escapes and lots of windows on lower levels. The tunnel that went under North Berendo St. between the Main Building and AO was completely open. You could pop up in AO right behind reception and be 15 quick paces from the door. Same with ASHO. It opens into the hallway between reception and the ramp that goes down to the Main Building. 25 quick paces to fweedom.

    BTW, any bets that L Ron Hubbard Way will convert back to North Berendo St. at some future date?
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
  18. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    It is known for a fact that there is a procedure called ''blow drill'' to be applied as soon as one Sea Or member leaves, blow escape whitout a proper routing form giving him such ''privilege"

    The process consist of having a team to immediately locate the SO member and bring him\her back to the base. The process is not to try to get the person back but to get the SO back.

    The more the person is deeply involved in the cult operations - the more pressure will be used to bring back the person. Failure is not an option.

    One well known example of this was the story Marty confirmed of Him getting back Annie Broker to the Int Base after she escaped.

    It happened to me when I escaped the SO (flag land base)
    I made a mistake in my planning and the blow drill team found me at the Airport. I had been warned, by the taxi driver, to remain in public space and to scream it they get physical to take me out of there.
    When they finally '' order me with authority : '' come on - you come back (they were about to take me ) - I told them either they don't touch me or I scream they want to rape me. (their face had gone red - very angry) They tried for 3-4 hours to get me leave the place and follow them. The only answer was 'no'

    If I were in a place withtout anyone to help me - I am certain they would have physically taken me back - And as I would have fought - they would have locked me up in isolation.....
    Thank god I have always been a rebel and escaped before they ''rehabilitate'' me in their prison.


    It works
    It' so theta
    so up-tone

    Their main duties are to

    1) get all the money out of people
    2) put people in prison and isolation to prevent them from escaping!
  19. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    My blow from Flag went better. I worked it so that I was on the plane before anybody realized I wasn't where I was supposed to be.

    Still, in my preparations to leave, I bought myself a knife, and had already decided that anyone trying to physically drag me back was going to get cut. At the airport, I got a book and stayed in the restroom until my plane's actual departure time. I ditched the knife before passing through the security zone.
  20. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    The problem that occured is that I left a letter to my senior (demanding to leave me alone as I won't never come back in such a boot camp- I was done with their cult)
    I know, by the time he would read my letter I would be enjoying a window seat over the ocean.... had another plan for me...

    My flight was delayed - 6 hours ...... :nervous:
    It is very difficult to hide in such a small airport..almost impossible...

    A few things at that time were of great help in planning an escape at Flag

    1) there was the bank building to get money - wire transfer - whatever
    2) the was the post office building - to get your important stuff sent in boxes one at the time as nobody notice
    3) there was public telephones on the street to get all the info needed to plan escape

    Now - people are isolated - monitored by many [STRIKE]security guards[/STRIKE] cult dogs looking after the flock , running on their bicycle leaving no chance to escape their watch....
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016