Expanded Tone Scale

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by TomKat, Nov 18, 2018.

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  1. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    Has anyone ever had any success understanding, on a personal and observational level, the expanded tone scale? I mean the whole theory of the 0-4 scale as "being plus body" and -40 to +40 as the soul?

    The closest I ever get to making sense of it personally is when I think of the soul as the "inner child," which does often die (tone zero) somewhere on the way to adulthood, leaving an invented (composite of parents et al) adult self with only shallow emotional reactions between 0 and 4, to carry on. I remember some people, when getting processing, might hit a very spiritual state of "beautiful sadness" which, in this scheme, would be the soul waking up enough to feel its own apathy.

    It seems very successful artists often cannot fully kill off their inner child to birth their adult persona. And so end up as very disfunctional adults, maybe addicts. Yet they have access to a child-like creativity most adults do not.
  2. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    "There is in most men a poet, who dies young whom the man survives"

    Vincent Van Gogh

    As to your question...

    I see it as mixing apples and oranges. I don't think you will grasp the expanded tonescale by comparing it or translating into those other terms.

    Hubbard's work needs to be studied on it's own terms. I grasped that very quickly for having been well prepared by DeRopp's "The Master Game"

    Being out of Scn you have no need to get hung up on the details of the subject but you're certainly welcome to ponder what you've studied...

    You're closing lines are very pertinent to anyone who would understand the likes of me...
  3. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Good quote. Along the same lines:

    "Everyone is talented at a certain age." -- Ernest Hemingway.
  4. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    My understanding is/was:

    Tone 40 was god-like (polytheistic) before a thetan made agreements to join the physical universe.

    Tone 20 is still somewhat god-like powers with some limitations after agreements made to join the physical universe.

    Of course, this is all Scientology OT bullshit.

    And why hasn't it been changed to a metric standard? Tone 10, Tone 100, etc.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  5. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Since Hubbard was never able to go exterior and therefore had no knowledge of most of the things he wrote about I would assume that the expanded tone scale came out of his imagination. Therefore I don't really see any benefit in trying to understand it.
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  6. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Scientology is abject persecution

    And that child like mindset occasionally descends them into erroneous belief systems, Bigfoot and tone scales. The real world beckons.....
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  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hubbard was apparently having difficult with exteriorizaion in later years but I've no doubt he had much experience with it when younger.

    Not surprising. The slithering sidewinder by his own admission tried use exterior perception to win at poker.

    There are some strong counter postulates o such a thing wielded by some hombres who ain't shy about how they make their postlates stick.
  8. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Tone 40 is simply "Serenity of Beingness". Hubbard is well known as a Serenity Of Beingness kind of guy but many just use the tone's initials when speaking of him
  9. haha
  10. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Come now. Ron exteriorised during one of his lectures on the ship, and described what he could see out at sea for the spellbound audience, thus proving that he could exteriorise.

    Of course, what he described didn't correspond with what the students could see out the window, but that's simply because, not being exteriorised themselves, their eyes were playing tricks on them, their being in the tone level of needing bodies.

    He also, as early as the 1950s, did reach and withdraw on the polar ice caps, before being whisked to Venus where he discovered an implant station. I wonder whether the implant station he mentioned in the Pyrenees has been found yet
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  11. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Yes, and don't forget that (unless I'm very much mistaken and have failed to follow the narrative correctly) old Xenu is still entrapped in his mountain fortress. Those batteries have lasted a hell of a long time. If we could only discover where he is there's big bucks to be made manufacturing more of 'em.
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  12. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Well, if he could exteriorise easily in the 1950s, as he claimed during his lectures, then it doesn't say much for the subsequently developed Bridge, most of which Ron would have received on himself after achieving his ability to exteriorize. He even invented an int rundown, an end of endless int repair rundown, and the Ls ("When I was on the Ship, I never let anyone on the Ls leave until they were stably exterior"). So if he couldn't make his tech work on himself, despite being at least OTXV, and his braggadocio about making it work on others, then what are we to make of that? Do we make up some convoluted reason/excuse, or do we apply Occam's Razor?

    I'd love to hear from anyone reading this board who had miraculous results from Scientology, as promised. Seriously. Cured lumbago, didn't need glasses anymore, anything like that. Hubbard claimed that was happening routinely in the 1950s. Does anyone know any of these people? Or was it all just lies? I'd be delighted to read the anecdotes of anyone who gained such benefits from the tech. Perhaps they don't frequent this board, as I don't recall reading any, except in the Church's "Success" magazines and the like.
  13. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I've mentioned these two experiences before but
    you may not have seen them.The first technically did not
    happen through scientology as I hadn't even heard of
    Scn then. I started to compulsory exteriorize when I was 6
    and after 8 years was able to control this and do it at will,
    and then having solved the problem forgot about it and
    mostly lost this ability.

    The second was after receiving grade 4 and as well as
    feeling fantastic for a couple of days I could control
    electrical flows in my body. The second link below
    tells of such phenomena being usually spontaneous and
    sporadic, and thats how it was for me. It would seem
    that such happenings are not unique to me.


    "Yogic wisdom describes many variations of the siddhis. Today we’d associate the elementary siddhis with garden-variety psychic phenomena. They include telepathy (mind- to- mind communication); clairvoyance (gaining information about distant or hidden objects beyond the reach of the ordinary senses); precognition (clairvoyance through time), and psychokinesis (direct influence of matter by mind, also known as PK).
    For most people, psychic abilities manifest spontaneously and are rarely under conscious control. The experiences tend to be sporadic and fragmentary, and the most dramatic cases occur mainly during periods of extreme motivation. By contrast, the siddhis are said to be highly reliable and under complete conscious control; as such they could be interpreted as exceedingly refined, well-cultivated forms of psychic phenomena."
  14. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Yeah, but I'm talking about lasting miracles, as promised. You can feel good for a few days after doing yoga or meditation. You can have strange perceptic phenomena after taking shrooms or reading Alice in Wonderland. That's not something I'd pay $5000 per intensive for, and devote 20 years of my life to.
  15. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    ...yeah...that's where he pulled it from...

  16. Hello, How's your prostrate doing? Any symptoms I should know about? Please use the tonal scale to answer. Mine is doing ok, I am pooping ok. Thanks for asking. I give it a 1 for smoothness, I still have a long way to go I know.
  17. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Scientology is abject persecution

    I was able to as a young child but I never wandered too far from my body, that I remember anyway. Once when I was still sleeping in my crib I exteriorized and went into the living room where my mother, grandmother and cousin were watching TV. I got in front of the TV and was amazed to see and feel the energy coming out of the black and white TV passing through and partially illuminating some ethereal body that I was in. So it amused me and I started to make it do a little jig. I looked up to my relatives sitting in a semi circle and the only one who could see me was my young cousin Charlie who looked horrified as he wasn't looking through me to see the TV and not noticing like my mother & grandmother, he was positioned off to the side and got an unobscured view of my television illuminated "theta" body. Then I saw a woman spirit body crouched by the fireplace, whom seems to be assigned to me because I've encountered her on other occasions and she dragged me against my will and put me back in my human body. She had long, thick black hair, black boots to her knees and some kind of weird green santa looking suit. Either I've repeatedly dealt with the same one or it's a popular model in their human suit inventory.
    I've encountered her in dreams where I've tried to hide from her between lives only to be captured by her after some cat and mouse romps.
    Later in kindergarten I exteriorized on the playground at recess when I got hit on the head during rough housing. I don't know how much time passed but then bam, there she was again & dragged me back to my body through the air to where another spirit had it standing up to a counter where he was having it do whatever it was the other kids were doing to make everything look normal but I didn't think it way my body and made that known, was told that it was and I was crammed back in and only ever exteriorized one time ever again and that was the "be three feet back of your head" deal in 1972, only that time it terrified me as it wasn't my idea and was entirely unexpected. I felt like a baby bird being kicked out of the nest for the first time, not knowing it could fly. Though I'd been out when I was much younger, this was the first time where I actually perceived myself going out. The other times when I was very young were times when I just suddenly found myself out w/o knowing how I got out or why.
    This is why I've been of the perspective that being born into a human body is mandatory for most and you don't just wander in to a hospital and voluntarily pick one up, there is much more to it. Over 7 billion beings crammed into human forms, either it's an extremely popular idea or we're being forced to do it, possibly as some sort of karmic punishment or atonement.
    Sounds weird, I know, but no weirder than to think 7 billion plus souls are here entirely voluntarily, though I find that many have no souls at all but are purely animations. We that are forcefully incarnated here are here to train the animitrons with survival information which passes on to their animitron offspring...
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  18. I think I get the thread now. Let me try. I had a lucid dream about the very same room that I was sleeping in. The only difference was in my dream the door was open. When I woke the door was closed. I was not able to move in my dream only able to turn my head. It was one of the more horrifying experiences of my life. Unlike dagwood, I did not leave my body.
  19. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Scientology aims for increasing ability rather
    than producing miracles. CO$ marketing certainly
    oversells and frequently exaggerates such gains.

    Psychiatry also aims for increasing ability. So like
    it or not they are similar in this regard. Talk therapy
    of various kinds apparently has many successes. They
    can be dramatic.
  20. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Thank you for sharing that information with us.


    By the way, it's prostate, not prostrate.

    Why don't you PM old Christopher and ask him how to post properly, I'm sure he'll be delighted to clue you in.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018