Discussion in 'Legal and Government Actions Involving Scientology' started by West Grinsted, Mar 13, 2015.

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  1. West Grinsted

    West Grinsted Patron

    [​IMG]Judge James D. Whittemore

    "Federal Judge James D. Whittemore ended the Luis and Rocio Garcia fraud lawsuit against the Church of Scientology today by finding that Scientology can enforce contracts signed by the Garcias which require them to take their disputes to the church’s internal arbitration. Whittemore made that decision while acknowledging that never, in the more than 60-year history of Scientology, had there ever been an arbitration, and that testimony indicated that there were no actual procedures set up for handling such a procedure.
    Once again, Scientology’s powerful First Amendment protections as a “church” came into play as Whittemore said his hands were tied as far as considering the Garcias’ contention that they could never get a fair arbitration from Scientology, which requires that such a dispute be heard by a three-person panel made up of Scientologists in good standing". :angry:
  2. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    This religious protection shit's gotta change. Does this mean that Catholics need to submit to Vatican arbitration if the priest assaults their child? I hope this is simply an artifact of the way the Co$ legalizes and contractualizes everything, for exactly this purpose.
  3. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    J.Swift (Jeffrey Augustine) posted this on the Bunker.

  4. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    This Judge did at least rule correctly on another case that involved a cult....

    Whittemore presided over the criminal trial of Gerald and Betty Payne, the founders of Greater Ministries International Church. Over $450 million was bilked from church followers in the Paynes' fraudulent investment scheme, which was billed as one of the largest Ponzi schemes in U.S. history. Whittemore sentenced Gerald to 27 years for conduct he called "absolutely despicable." Betty was sentenced to over 12 years, which was increased from what Whittemore initially considered after she repeated a claim they were the innocent victims of government persecution and their religious freedoms were being violated. "It's one thing to have blind faith," Whittemore told her. "It's quite another to cast yourself as a martyr for no apparent good. I just deliberated a matter that you could serve 33 months less. What you've just done is throw that right back in my face."

    But that was a clear cut Ponzi scheme. A lot different case than this one was with the Garcias.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Scientology will never be done in via the judicial system. The only exception is Narconon. Since Narconon is delivering a fraudulent "medical practice" it is much easier to nail them for it. The "Church" though is damn near impossible to touch legally. Unless DM gets caught red handed murdering someone. But that would be a criminal matter. I'm talking about them being hard to get in civil courts. It has been done a few times before. But the current climate in the US judiciary is just so goddamned biased toward any organization that is "religious" it seems.

    I don't know where Judges started reading more in to the 1st Amendment than is actually there. They need to go back to Law School and knock it the fuck off!! The amendment says "Congress shall not establish any religion nor make laws denying the practice thereof". The Founders didn't want one denomination rising to the top and becoming the State Church of the nation. They didn't want the equivalent to the Church of England in Britain, or the Catholic Church in Europe collecting tithes through the government and making religious laws through Congress.

    I don't think the founders advocated a "church" running roughshod over it's members and denying basic human rights.

    EDIT: Referring to the other case above, I suppose one area in which judges and our government will get bent out of shape is if a "church" runs a Ponzi scheme. Only the government is allowed to run Ponzi schemes. (Social Security)

    But a "church" can do just about anything else to you and get away with it.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  5. Elronius of Marcabia

    Elronius of Marcabia Silver Meritorious Patron

    The endless contracts with $cio to bind a persons ability to hold them accountable should be a huge redflag
    for anyone seeking counseling spiritual or otherwise from these crooks, if not a legal win, the Garcia's get my
    kudo's for putting the fact of that out there and public for all to see:coolwink:

    When something is as dark and sinister as $cientology is, it's only the light of day and the many flashlights
    shined by the courage of people like the Garcia's who refuse to be scared or bullied into silence :thumbsup: and
    the cumulative effect of soooooooooo many flashlights, floodlights and Hollywood premiere lights like that
    of Gibney's Film :thumbsup:
  6. bbopper

    bbopper Patron

    Truth be known, if all Ex-Scientologists around the world had to choose between 'accepting' the Garcia decision... or 'keeping' Going Clear (the documentary) alive and well on HBO, this March 29th in the USA...... the most thoughtful amongst all, would accept the Garcia decision (and celebrate Alex Gibneys scientology grenade) hands down. (pardoning the twisted pun).

    The Garcia decision (while momentarily disappointing) pales in comparsion to what Mr. Gibneys expose' is about to unleash on Scientology Inc., all over and all around the world. Not to mention the effect that 'Going Clear, the Prison of Belief, Part Two', will unleash on the 'lurid loving details of the public' (tentatively scheduled for release, in 2016).

    Remove Scientology's (fraudulently-gotten) tax-exemption in the USA & the Garcia decision will become a mere-footnote in the twisted history of Scientology's judicial theatrics, throughout the civilized world (the purpose of a lawsuit.....). With such removal being far from what it once was considered, i.e. being unthinkable.

    The Garcia case judge was indeed bound by his commitment to honor the law as it was dubiously written. Which point will be moot in the days to come.

    Stay tuned my friends, stay tuned.

  7. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

    TI'm so disappointed for the Garcia's. They had the guts to go for it. I hope some good turns up for them.
  8. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    My guess (though I know nothing about the case you cite) is that Gerald and Betty Payne and the Greater Ministries International Church were not as lawyered up and corporate veiled as our favorite cult. Scientology has that shit down like nobody's business.

    Miscavige has figured out how to bilk way more money than he would with a Ponzi scheme and he doesn't even have to offer a return on investment. Frankly, if people just stopped playing, that would be the end (obviously). It's hard to get authorities excited to take action on something that while despicable and ultimately fraudulent, is ruthlessly defended by the very people the authorities are being asked to protect.

    Hey, if people want to pay a million dollars to buy some fairytale, that's not illegal. The best medicine against Scientology is preventative. Once you're ensnared, it's rough going.

    There should be a mandatory sign in all organizations granted the status of bona fide religion that states,

    "Know all ye who enter here that you have crossed over into a domain where the law of the United States can no longer protect you. Read all binding agreements well. You shall have no recourse save the one-sided remedy promised you by your religious organization. Keep your head about you. We bid you farewell."
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  9. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    Me too. They took the punch for everyone. This was not a selfish act and certainly not a pleasant undertaking.
  10. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    The missing link:
  11. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Same here!

    Sad for them in consideration of the courage and effort it took to go for it!

    At least it did attract attention for many $cientologist on it and the Ideal Morgue fundraising! :confused2:

    Thank you to the Garcias!
    I supposed they wont play the sinister comedy of going with the ''inner'' arbitration consisting of ''fair gaiming the critics and antago who are sp's'' :confused2:
    But who knows, they might be offer a $$$ reimbursement!
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  12. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I asked for a refund once....

    Pretty casually....had Level P of the Briefing course....paid and never started it. Somewhere around 400 bucks....

    I'm sure many have asked for refunds....and when given the run around...of "going through channels".....just dropped it.

    What's the point?

    Of course it would be interesting to go ahead and ask for an arbitration.....and "put the cult through that".....(if they would)

    That would make them put out some time and effort....(dev-T) :biggrin:

    I don't know if guys like me....ever signed documents, like the more recent ins....??

    I do recall somewhere around 1990 or so, the Cult did ask many to sign documents...(whether on course or not) does seem like a "religious" thing.....and I'm sure the Judge in this case....was very hesitant to step into that...

    That members of this Cult...have "accounts" to put money into....makes is seem like a business to me....

    That money could be earmarked for a course....but nothing stopping that member from "taking it out" and using it for books....tapes....auditing....or even the that is an important point ...IMO. That "money" is on account....Even if the Cult says it is not...

    Of course...since I was not allowed to finish the BC, due to GAT I coming out.....I should ask for a complete refund...and damages for wasting 3 1/2 years of my life....on the course... (bait and switch) (false advertising....)
  13. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    I said it in an earlier post - during the last hearing, the judge was out on thin ice, and he was looking for the lawyers to throw him a rope - to give him an argument that would allow him to rule on the behalf of the Garcia's.

    Babbit never understood that, which is plainly obvious when he called witnesses to testify how egregious the disconnection policy was. He missed the boat, and in my opinion, did the Garcia's and those that would have lined up behind them a big disservice.

    Maybe there is no such argument. Maybe the contracts are protected religions scripture, despite being unconscionable. (one sided contract) But he could have tried. Instead he trots out witnesses that were waaaay off target.

    The attorney he hired to write the brief - she understood the game. It was obvious from reading her brief. The Garcia's should have hired her.


    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  14. arcxcauseblows

    arcxcauseblows Patron Meritorious

    It exposes how greedy they are

    What's the count now? They have 3 billion, and they won't give what in comparison is a tiny refund

    Who would be friends with people like that?

    They obviously don't even want to appear fair to the public they just want your money
  15. Evidently nothing stopped Reg's from taking money out from people's accounts without their knowledge and consent to pay for books...donations...other people's coursework and auditing, etc., just to keep themselves out of trouble by "keeping their stats up". This has been reported by multiple is that not fraud and theft, which should be prosecuted? :no:
  16. West Grinsted

    West Grinsted Patron

    You are right, it is absolutely appalling.
  17. Chess

    Chess Patron with Honors

    What a ridiculous decision. You must submit to church arbitration knowing no-one has ever done it before. However, you don't get arbitration unless you're a member in good standing and how do you remain or become a member in good standing = never seek arbitration concerning a refund. I give myself a headache every time I try think of the system set up in the Cof$, it's fool proof. A religion based on lawyer's contracts, go figure hey? Freedom, is that what they say they sell? But sign here first... and we'll sell you all the Freedom you want, time and time again.
    That Judge has all but admitted in his own court room, the law doesn't work and is grossly unfair. Religion takes precedence over common sense and honesty. Why does the Cof$ coerce it members to sign legal contracts before the delivery of its promised services it doesn't deliver Judge? Why is the continual demand for donations steeped in religious legalities Judge? Could there possibly be a scam going on?
    I feel really sorry for the Garcias, I really do but I salute them for their courage and tenacity.
    However, the PR gloves are well and truly off now. The cold blooded and ruthless domination the Cof$ practices over its members for financial gain is becoming more and more well known across the United States. And one thing an American can be relied on, is when the chips are down they rally around what the US Flag represents. These are American court decisions and how they stack up against the HBO KR will eat away and eat away at miscavige's organisation. It's members rate amongst the lowest of intelligent beings on this planet who don't even realise they are being swindled. The US legal system is really sick, it protects people like Sea Org Captain david miscavige.
    I think I'll have a stress test next time I see a Cof$ booth, just to pass some entheta along.
  18. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Yeah a Freewinds Reg charged my "next trip" on my credit card. I threw a fit when I discovered it and he did undo it, amazingly without that much fuss.

    He said that I had given him the approval. We had bumped into each other in a crowded hall and he asked me a vague question and I nodded my head "yes". That's when he said I gave "approval".

    Sneaky bastards.
  19. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    I think you're absolutely right on this Mimsey. Very good observation.

    Another example why it's so important to get the right attorney. But that is easier said than done. I'm sure Babbit is a very fine attorney. He just didn't get the strategy for this case right. He didn't pay attention to the clues the Judge gave. Now I know why the Judge got irritated with Babbit a few times. But the Judge couldn't just come out openly and tell him exactly what he wanted. That would be aiding one side.

    Most certainly if the Judge had ruled in favor of the Garcia's based on Babbit's approach and argument, then it would've been overturned on appeal.

  20. Sassy

    Sassy Patron Meritorious

    Reminds me of when the Headleys "lost" their case as well & had to pay back $42,000 (?) to the Cult----remember what happened next? Their Go Fund Me account exploded with donations & if I recall, the balance went up & over what they had to pay back. Good things DO turn up for good people! :thumbsup::happydance::yes: