George Orwells 1984 and Scientology - a comparison

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Ex_SaintHill, Aug 1, 2010.

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  1. notmyguru

    notmyguru New Member

    OT 2 is Doublethink from Orwells 1984.

    I have been searching around the internet to see if I could find where LRH's came up with his inspiration for OT 2 because recently I realized that OT 2 was completely made up, a total fantasy, but even worse, it was meant to destroy a being rather than help you become this powerful bad ass like promised. When I did OT 2 I was miserable, it was a very bad experience in general. How could I have paid hard earned cash for this! I was just glad to get the whole OT Levels over with, they were a night mare for me, but once your in you can't really walk away. So I stuck it out but I have done quite a lot of reading and research since then trying figure out how LRH put this whole thing together.

    Somewhere along the way I realized that he just stole ideas from everyone out there. Religions, the occult and pshchiatry. For instance read the facts and tenants of Buddhism and you will recognize major similarities.

    But as far as OT 2 goes after I looked back on the experience I felt he was attempting to implant me, rather than my running out an implant. Well, guess what ... that is exactly what OT 2 is. He has you running over and over again the dichotomies, or another way of putting a dichotomy is Doublethink. Opposites.

    Your go through booklet they give you with a list of double think words or terms. You can only look at each phrase or word one at a time and do not know what is coming up next. You look at the booklet and it has the words "to be" and you run that on the meter, record your reads until you don't get any more, then you move down a line (it is covered with paper so it will be a big surprise) and next will be the opposite, "not to be" and it goes like this, "create" then "Don't create". I only ran OT 2 for a few days and then threw my hands up in the air as it was just such BS I could not continue so they called it a pass. It had a very bad impact on me though, brainwashing is no fun! There is even one of the booklets that is called "Big Being" and you run a bunch of dichotomies from that. Sound familiar???

    Below I have the Wikipedia explanation.
    According to the novel, doublethink is: (George Orwells 1984- written in 1949. This was delivered to the population to keep them in line in the book.

    To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it.

    I have not read anything on the internet about this so I am not sure anyone has really looked at it from this perspective but the implications are quite mild boggling and would explain why so many of the OT 7's are a mess, not doing well and don't even realize it. All I can say is stay away from it.

  2. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: OT 2 is Doublethink from Orwells 1984.

    So you think people really love David Miscavige?

  3. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    :welcome2: to ESMB, notmyguru!

    I also did OT2 and thought it was one helluva mindfuck. Glad you brought it up.

    It seems to me that when we get rid of our personal concepts of opposites and all the shades between, we may very well lose, or at least impair, our ability to evaluate.
  4. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

  5. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    Re: OT 2 is Doublethink from Orwells 1984.

    Tinfoil me if you must, but I don't think this reads at all like a scientologist's (or ex's) post, let alone one who has gone as far as OT II.
  6. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Re: OT 2 is Doublethink from Orwells 1984.

    Looks real enough to me. But it could be someone who "did" OT2 in the FZ too.

  7. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    Re: OT 2 is Doublethink from Orwells 1984.

    Possibly, but I have no personal experience of the FZ so I couldn't say. But 'booklets'? In fifty years I've never heard advanced course materials referred to as 'booklets'. The Clearing Course is just as whacky and you have to do that line-by-line too, obscuring each item until you come to it, but he/she doesn't mention that.

    Smells a bit fishy to me that's all, it was his/her only post AFAIK and it's over a year ago and he/she hasn't been back.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Re: OT 2 is Doublethink from Orwells 1984.

    Back in the 80s at SH the OT2 platens were all in one fat pack. In the early 90s there was a big overhaul and new packs with pretty covers got made up in a big project at the HGB, and the 21 platens each came in a separate pack. I believe the reason was mainly security, although stable door horse applied. It would be reasonable for a public person to call those things booklets if you didn't know the officially-sanctioned name.

    It would be even more reasonable to call the things booklets if they were just FZ internet printouts stapled together by some cowboy outfit somewhere.


    If anyone wants to see these things, look in the left-hand column under "platens." This isn't a CofS site (duh), but they are genuine (apart from being typed instead of handwritten by Hubbard; with a few diagrams missing from #7 and #8-14; and with the dates screwed up [TR210,000,866 is "explained" as 210,000,866 Trillion years ago, but Hubbard wrote the 210,000,866 as an exponent of "tr" and meant it to be read as 10^12^210000866 (sic--really!) years ago]).

    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
  9. Hi guys,
    as you can probably guess, I have read 1984 (like 5 times :wink2:) as well as all of George Orwell's other books including Animal Farm and Homage to Catalonia.
    I think it's really nice to see a thread like that here and it's nice to see that most of you seem to think that there is a certain similarity between the methods used in Socialism and those used in Scientology. I believe that as well, and that is what brought me here. Because I didn't grow up in Scientology (actually I have nothing to do with it) but my mother was a Communist Party member - and not just a member but an "official" in the Party. And she raised and educated me in that way and she also abused me as child, including sexual abuse.

    Anyway, it took me a long time to process all the terrible things that happened in my childhood (and I also went to psychologists - who actually use methods very similar to some of Scientology's basic methods - only that they don't -usually- rip you off or make you join them) and it was during that time that I read of some of the experiences some of the children who grew up in the Sea Org had and I could really relate to that, which is what brought me here.

    Oh and while we are on the subject of books, I have also read and recommend all of Gustave Le Bon's books, but especially: The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind, The Psychology of Peoples and The Psychology of Socialism.
    Also a lot of people (especially certain dictators :) ) don't seem to understand George Orwell or Gustave Le Bon, as they seem to think their books were meant as instruction manuals :) When they where of course meant to expose the tactics used by certain manipulators that where already in existence back then.

    Anyway since Gustave Le Bon was also a psychologist, I also wanna recommend the books of another psychologist; namely Freud.
    Actually I DON'T recommend Freud, his theories are horrible outdated and modern psychologists don't use his theories or methods anymore. But I want you to read his book, because it will make you realize that Hubbard just completely ripped off Freud and simply gave his terms fancier sounding names.

    Which brings me back to my name. Of course this isn't my real name, but my real name is very similar. Although I chose that name, it isn't ideal, because even though in 1984 Emmanuel Goldstein is the Arch enemy of Big Brother, and while his organization is opposed to Big Brother and vilified by Big Brother, he is actually a product of the Party as well. And of course he is based on Leon Trotsky.
    Anyway, Socialists use those tactics to make you think that even those who oppose them, would be little better than them.

    In your case Emmanuel Goldstein is Sigmund Freud ;-)
    But it ISN'T modern psychology, because while Freud's theories might really be very similar (and little better) than Scientology's theories, MODERN PSYCHOLOGY isn't at all like that and I dare to say that it HAS become much better.
  10. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    Have you read A Clergyman's Daughter? Orwell hated it and wouldn't let it be reprinted in his lifetime. I liked it.

    I disagree. I had 2 1/2 years of psychoanalytic psychotherapy AFTER I left scientology (1980's) and found it much more effective and helpful. Dianetics resembles psychoanalysis only in the vaguest way. Dianetics is a tinker toy, paint-by-numbers imitation.

    Freud isn't vilified in scientology. Hubbard puts in a good word for him occasionally. As I recall he liked to throw around Wilhelm Wundt's name a lot (about whom I know little). Hubbard DOES make a distinction between psychoanalysis (talk therapy) and psychiatry (psychosurgery, electric shock, drugs) but most scientologists are unaware of this and just assume anything "psych-" is evil.

    I got curious about Freud initially toward the end of my scientology career and used to walk into the place where I was on staff carrying books by Freud, which didn't go down too well. If Hubbard had not talked about him I probably wouldn't have got interested.
  11. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Your story reminds me of David Horowitz. Raised by commies, joined SDS, has epiphany, now exposes the agenda. He does great work.
    You will get turned around and contorted into a pretzel trying to figure out if LRH was a socialist or capitalist between what he wrote and what he actually did. But then socialism and communism are essentially the same thing by degree, "A communist is a socialist in a hurry". Socialism still requires the cooperation of capitalists and capitalists still need the complicity of people in political power. When socialists consolidate their power enough to where they no longer need cooperation, then they become communists. This interim cooperation between capitalists and socialists vying over the balance of power is confusing and gives cause for a variety of different variations on the theme.

    There is no such struggle for a balance of power within Scientology. LRH was free to spout off whatever he thought would encourage devotion and he skimmed everything except what irreducible minimum was required to keep things going. I think he was politically amoral.

    Ref: HCOB 28 Nov. 70 C/S Series 22 PSYCHOSIS​
    A technical advance has been made in relation to the inactivity, slowness or incompetence of human beings.
    This discovery proceeds from a two-and-a-half year intense study of aberration as it affects the ability to function as a group member.
    The ideal group member is capable of working causatively in full cooperation with his fellows in the achievement of group goals and the realization of his own happiness.
    The primary human failing is an inability to function as himself or contribute to group achievements.
    Wars, political upsets, organizational duress, growing crime rates, increasingly heavy “justice”, growing demands for excessive welfare, economic failure and other age long and repeating conditions find a common denominator in the inability of human beings to coordinate.
    The current political answer, in vogue in this century and growing, is totalitarianism where the state orders the whole life of the individual. The production figures of such states are very low and their crimes against the individual are numerous.
    A discovery therefore of what this factor is, that makes the humanoid the victim of oppression, would be a valuable one.


    The end product when one has fully handled robotism is not a person who cannot follow orders or who operates solely on his own.
    Totalitarian states fear any relief of the condition as they foolishly actively promote and hope for such beings. But this is only a deficiency in their own causes and their lack of experience with fully self-determined beings. Yet education, advertising and amusements have been designed only for robots. Even religions existed to suppress “man’s evil nature”.
    Lacking any examples or understanding many have feared to free the robot to his own control and think even with horror on it.
    But you see, beings are NOT basically robots. They are miserable when they are.
    Basically they prosper only when they are self-determined and can be pan-determined to help in the prosperity of all.

    Personnel Series 9
    Org Series 4
    [h=4]HATS[/h] HAT — A term used to describe the write-ups, checksheets and packs that outline the purposes, know-how and duties of a post. It exists in folders and packs and is trained in on the person on the post.


    In that you have the key to “exhausted executives” or staff members. You have why the president of the US ages about 20 years in one term of office as you can see by comparing dated photographs of past presidents. He is totally on cope. His government has an org board that looks like a pile of jackstraws. He has no hat. His staff have no hats. His government departments have no hat. The technologies of economics, law, business, politics, welfare, warfare, diplomacy, have been lost or neglected (they do exist to some extent).


    Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex​
    Issue I​
    [h=4]REWARDS AND PENALTIES[/h] [h=4]HOW TO HANDLE PERSONNEL AND ETHICS MATTERS[/h] The whole decay of Western government is explained in this seemingly obvious law:
    If you reward nonproduction you get nonproduction.
    When you penalize production you get nonproduction.
    The welfare state can be defined as that state which rewards nonproduction at the expense of production. Let us not then be surprised that we all turn up at last slaves in a starved society.
    Russia cannot even feed herself but depends on conquest to eke out an existence—and don’t think they don’t strip the conquered! They have to.
    Oddly enough one of the best ways to detect a suppressive person is that he or she stamps on up statistics and condones or rewards down statistics. It makes an SP very happy for everyone to starve to death, for the good worker to be shattered and the bad worker patted on the back.
    Draw your own conclusions as to whether or not Western governments (or welfare states) became at last suppressives. For they used the law used by suppressives:


    LRH commented on Freud often and pointed out Freud's emphasis on sex which is pretty rich coming from LRH. Just read Mission Earth.:puke:
  12. I have recently started reading "Brain-Washing in Red China" by Edward Hunter, I think the copyright has expired, so here is the PDF Fo...rain-Washing in Red China - Edward Hunter.pdf
    His follow-up work "Brainwashing; the story of men who defied it" is on Archive.og:

    The first reviewer on says it all:

    "i knew nothing of this history, shocking stuff. The basic premise explains how communism as a philosophy and regime was actually principally interested in turning people into mind controlled slaves by inverting the science of psychiatry, so that instead of using it to heal mental illness, was used to create it, which was the process that became known in communist block countries as "brainwashing", aka "corticovisceral psychiatry" and when used with malevolent intent as in communism, involved breaking a persons capacity for self autonomy, ability to determine fact from fiction, right from wrong, freedom from slavery, turning the mind bitter and hateful, all to turn people into mindless robots willing to think and do anything the authority wants"

    And when you now think "hmmm... sounds familar... where have I seen this before?", I can only say, wait till you actually read the books!
  13. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

  14. Now that you mention it, I realize that the first site has all kinds of PDFs. Most of the books there are like a hundred years old, but they are all on Communism - including books BY Communists. Anyway, just read the version on then - which is the updated version anyway.

    PS: I just realized that the first book is actually on as well:
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017

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